Re: D24 survey results!

[Al Sargent]

(Adding the new Google Group that we'll be shifting to. To join this group, email international-laser-class-ass...@googlegroups.com.)

Hi David,

Thanks for that perspective and for the ideas.

I REALLY like your idea #1. If you look at the District Websites and Contacts page on the ILCA North America website, there's no column for how to find and subscribe to a mailing list. 

The reality is that the mailing list is where the action is for a fleet, since everyone can contribute, while the websites tend to be outdated, since only a few people can contribute. Examples:

• District 12's website with 2021 regatta dates. 
• Ditto for District 23. 
• District 19, which hasn't been updated since 2020; District 21, 2018. 
• Districts 2, 4, 5, 6, 14, 16, 25 and 26 don't even have a website listed. 
• And our D24 listing goes to our outdated MyFleet page. 

Interestingly, the 505 class emphasizes mailing lists on the fleets page of their US website.

I'll reach out to ILCA-NA to see what they can do to fix this by adding a link to a mailing list or community on their District Websites and Contacts page. It could be Google Groups, Facebook, or something else, but it needs to be content that all fleet members can contribute to, not just a webmaster.

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As for your idea #2, Calendars:

I put together this google sheet of all 2022 Laser regattas, and encouraged district secretaries to fill in their dates. The goal is to provide a simple way to share regatta dates, without having to publish a website. The challenge is that it's hard to filter if you're viewing anonymously. I welcome ideas here.

Relatedly, here's a 2023 ILCA calendar for major regattas I stumbled upon. Looks like we have North Americans, US Masters, and PCCs all in SoCal next year.

Best regards,
 
Al

asar...@stanfordalumni.org | +1 650 269 2176

On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 4:04 PM David Anthes <blast...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Ahoy D-24, 

I’ve followed the discussions on increasing participation and retention with interest, and I’d like to put in my masters-centered two cents.  Feel free to skip to the end for some concrete suggestions.  (Disclosure:  I live in Oregon now)

First, let’s just acknowledge that sailing is specialized, expensive and difficult.  You need waterfront access, lots of specialized parts and it can take years to learn how to simply keep a Laser upright in many west coast venues (I’m holding my hand up here).  Compare a day of going sailing to going for a bike ride…similar levels of gear but if I want to go mountain biking, even if I want to drive, it’s a change of clothes, throw the bike on the car and go riding.  Sailing, on the other hand…I have to load up the boat and gear on a trailer or car-top, not forget a single item, have a duffle-load of clothes, drive to the water, unload the program, rig, and go out…then repeat the whole process when coming in.  In order to practice you pretty much need a boat based at an easy launching spot, which is not always easy to find and additional expense as well.

And because we’re dealing with reality, let’s talk about expense.  Sailing has never been cheap and it never will be, but there are some irksome costs.  One, the class/ association/US Sailing fees.  Two, the sails.  After over a decade flailing away with my Laser nobody has given me a good reason why my ILCA sail is so much more than the cost of a another sail that fits my boat.  I may have the money to deal with these discrepancies but in truth there is a principal objection here, and I know others feel the same way.  To illustrate how this matters,  I have a perfect target for a new Laser sailor that lives close to me - already a champion dingy sailor and ex-pro big boat guy - he’d like to get back in to it and has the money and time.  What tips the balance for him?  As a “one-time” sailor, just to test the ILCA waters, if he wants to borrow my boat and go up to the Gorge for one event, he has to pay the entry fee, the US Sailing fee, and possibly even join ILCA.   Plus travel, camping, parking, boat storage…and beating up one of my class sails.

My point?  Sailing has some real obstacles to participation.  And, there’s a lot of competition for people’s time.  So to get bigger fleets we have to try harder.

 Since transitioning from big-boat only sailing to dingy sailing, I’ve been an owner and active in two west-coast fleets - the Vanguard 15 and ILCA.  I can confidently say there are a few things that really work to keep people engaged.

•    Communication and “cheerleading”.  The D24 email setup is a great example of both, and I think every fleet should have such a list. I am physically closer now to Seattle and Portland, and how many of those events have I attended?  Not counting the Gorge only ONE, yet I’ve come down several times for D24 events.  Why? Because I know about them.  I’m not always an especially motivated sailor and I have other things vying for my time and money, but when I get a reminder email about an event from Tracy, Emilio, Stephen or whoever it makes me check my schedule to see if I could make it. 

•    After race socializing - Great way to build relationships, debrief, learn…our V-15 fleet was great at this, and lately at Skamania Coves it’s top notch.  This group bonding is a draw, especially for sailors who aren’t that competitive.

•     Being open and friendly on the race course and in the rigging area, especially towards new people.  Hyper competitiveness just drives people away, and a welcoming environment can go a long way towards getting people to return.  We are all responsible for this.

•    I’ll second the recommendation to read Bill Symes’ article on fleet building.

Finally, I’d like to offer some suggestions.

1.     ILCA should set up an email list just like D24 has, for every district fleet.

2.    Tied in to this should be a consistent web calendar…every fleet gets this to fill out with their events, easily accessible from the email.  Also the secretary contact.  All in the footer.

3.    US Sailing and ILCA could offer a “tryout” membership at a cut rate for sailors that are only going to do one or two events.

4.    Class legal sail price…I’m just sayin’.

See you on the water,

David

On Sep 19, 2022, at 4:25 PM, David Lapier (dlapier) <dla...@cisco.com> wrote:

FYI – 

I just ran into the following on fleet building from Bill Symes.   https://internationalsailingacademy.com/thoughts-on-fleet-building/

-- David L

 

From: laser-class-d24 <laser-class...@lists.stanford.edu> On Behalf Of laird henkel
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:02 AM
To: laser-c...@lists.stanford.edu List <laser-c...@lists.stanford.edu>
Subject: D24 survey results!

 

Hi all-

 

Thanks to everyone who filled out the D24 survey regarding boosting participation in future D24 regattas. The results are attached here!

 

Everyone should take a look and draw their own conclusions. For me, the main takeaways are that a lot of people are excited about participating in D24 events, and at least among respondents, there is quite a bit of diversity in what people are excited about. 

 

Hopefully this will spur a productive discussion here on the D24 email list, and perhaps at future D24 get-togethers.

 

Laird Henkel

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[Emilio Castelli]

Al:

What do you mean by

“And our D24 listing goes to our outdated MyFleet page”

Outdated? Though I did not add the fall dinghy results, it’s current and has been kept current all year. Where should the district listing go, if not there?

BTW, as I told Stephen, this will be the last year where I will keep it updated. I think I did it for > five years?

Somebody needs to step up to do this and yes, it would be nice to move to a different/ better page but the main thing is that it needs to be done.

 

Couple more comments about participations and lists. Currently there are 4 lists I know of:

1-      Old Stanford list

2-      New google group list

3-      A text phone list for practices at ACSC

4-      An email list for RYC

The RYC list was created during covid as the club only wanted members to be sailing but from now on, it will just go to the regular list. So, we’re down to 3.

I hate phones and whish the ACSC phone list would disappear and the posts moved to the regular list  (there might be reasons to keep them separate, I don’t know).

It would be nice to  move to a single list.

It would also be nice to know when the juniors at the San Francisco YC plan on sailing around South Hampton and whether they would mind if some creaky old geezers would join.

 

BTW, planning on sailing Saturday at RYC and Sunday @ Alameda, if it’s happening.

E

 

 

 

 

 

 

Emilio Castelli

www.castellivineyards.com

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[Al Sargent]

Emilio,

That page shows the Grand Prix winners only up to 2019. (Yes, it does show current 2022 Grand Prix standings. But 2020 and 2021 are missing.)

Thanks for all your hard work in keeping this page updated all these years. 

Mike and I have talked about replacing the ACSC group text with a google group. Anyone here opposed to that?

We should have a separate group for the ACSC fleet, since a lot of those messages are along the lines of “who’s sailing this weekend and when”, which this mailing list will probably find annoying. 

[Emilio Castelli]

Al:

I don’t think there was a Grand Prix in 2020 and 2021 because of COVID. Grand Prix page is current as far as I know.

I think the main function of the mailing list is to see “who’s sailing this week end and where”.

What else should it be used for?

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[laird henkel]

Here are my thoughts:

1) Email lists. We're lucky that D24 has had an active email list for a long time. The only issue for D24 is clarifying the shift from the old Stanford list to the new Google Group (I assume no one is opposed to this shift?). In terms of an email list for North America, I wonder what that would really be used for. For general communication at this scale, it seems like the main thing in the past was the Laser Forum. I haven't checked that in a couple of years, and it looks like it has migrated to: https://sailingforums.com/laser/  That has had some spirited discussions in the past, although using that to communicate with serious racers might not work if people are not regularly checking that site.

2) Calendars. Al's master Google Sheet seems like a good step in this direction, but it would be most useful if it gets buy-in from all fleets, and importantly, it is linked to all fleet websites (and the ILCA NA website).

3) D24 websites. Thanks Emilio for updating the Grand Prix website!  This is great, but it would also be great to have a general D24 website, including regattas outside the Grand Prix, and other updates. JB also started a website several years ago that seems to be orphaned--D24 should ideally consolidate to one website in my opinion. But opinions are cheap--the question is who is going to take the lead on creating and maintaining a website?

Laird

On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 8:14 PM David Anthes <blast...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Al, 

I think that’s a good way to put it…the mailing list is where the action is.  Great example from the 505s.   Even more reason for ILCA to take some of our fees and centralize communications for sailors.  I realized today that one reason I went to worlds was because Tracy put out an email alerting us to the registration opening up.  If it wasn’t for that it’s possible I would not have even heard of it!

And that leads in to calendars…I have not looked lately but it seems like even for the west coast, there’s various calendars, all in various states of updating.  Again, here’s something for ILCA to address - Email list, calendar, and secretary contact all in one consistent spot.

David

[Stephen Aguilar]

Good morning, to answer your question about 2020 and 2021 those were covid years and there was no Grand Prix winners. There weren't enough events. I'm going to be updating the rules and taking care of some other Grand Prix business in the next week or two. AL and Rick when you guys approached me about the Google group I asked if we could put scores on that page. The answer was yes. So I think that that's going to be where we're going to try to keep all our district information. So that way it's all in one place. Just need to figure out a way to do the scoring. So I could use the help of somebody who knows how to set up a spreadsheet that can be easily run by anyone. Because the my fleet page has been a pain for Emilio and me and Bob anyone who's had to work on it.

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[Stephen Aguilar]

Regarding the various websites. I spoke with JB a couple weeks ago and asked him to take his website down I also spoke to some others to have them take their websites down. This was done to try to eliminate confusion That way we can focus on just one the international Laser Class North America District 24 Google group.

[Stephen Aguilar]

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Stephen Aguilar <sails...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Oct 27, 2022, 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: D24 Forum Re: D24 survey results!

To: Al Sargent <asar...@stanfordalumni.org>

Right now there's an election going on for chairman of the North America laser class. One of the candidates brought up the fact that our class web page has not been updated for a long time. And that we need to find a new way to communicate. Let's be patient and see what happens. Because we may be able to have all this stuff solve at a class level.

But in the meantime.

For this new system using Google Groups to work we have to ALL communicate through it. We can't have all these separate lists going around. So please if you have a page devoted to District 24 laser racing and sailing please consider shutting it down and using the Google Groups

If you're a fleet captain you need to start using this list and by the way. There's a way of going about having a recognized Fleet. Right now I think we have Shoreline and Santa Cruz and neither of those fleets are active anymore. Hopefully Santa Cruz is going to start more stuff this year. And I believe Shoreline doesn't have anyone there anymore not even sure if Roger is doing anything with it. I'm checking Tahoe right now I believe they are a recognized Fleet. So Alameda Richmond and Lake Washington need to apply to establish a fleet. You can find the information in the handbook or get a hold of me and I will help you do this. The fleet Captain is going to be important with this new plan. The fleet Captain will report what's going on with their Fleet to the district secretary who will put this information together and send it to the class office for it to be published. That gives you one place to look for everything. Of course this is the plan who knows what's going to happen because it's based on an election but it's a good plan.

On Thu, Oct 27, 2022, 9:11 AM Al Sargent <asar...@stanfordalumni.org> wrote:

Sounds good. Thank you for doing that.

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