Unfinished business

[Clancy Ratliff]

Hey everyone, 

This may be a sore subject for some of us, but I would like to start a conversation nonetheless. It’s coming up on twenty years now that we have called for an end to Computers and Composition’s relationship with Elsevier. I want to see if we can, or want to, make a strategic plan to extricate ourselves from Elsevier in, say, five years. 

To rewind to 2004: several of us on our blogs made the case to dump Elsevier, arguing instead for open access. Elsevier costs universities a lot of money, which some of them just don’t pay, thus limiting readership. Also, they have a long history of corporate connection to problematic industries, such as weapons manufacturers. This may have changed, but the high cost hasn’t. 

I realize that some of you are on the Editorial Board. It seems to me that there are other journals that could publish the research that our colleagues send to C&C, but I’m interested in other perspectives on this question. I wonder if we could make the so-called (and very real) leadership crisis work for us—when Kris Blair steps down as editor, maybe no one could apply to replace her. Just brainstorming. 

Is this something that anyone else would like to talk about? Let me know. 

[Timothy Amidon]

Hi Clancy,

First, I'd be interested in this conversation. Second, here's an idea--WAC Clearinghouse has been increasingly serving as a home for journals in addition to the book series it houses. If the editorial board/leadership of C&C is interested in this move, I can certainly facilitate a conversation with folx from that space.

Kindly,

tra 

Timothy R. Amidon, Ph.D. 

Associate Professor | Department of English | Colorado State University

Associate Professor | Environmental and Occupational Health | Colorado School of Public Health

CSU Presidential Leadership Fellow 20222-2023 | Office of the Vice President for Research 

Fellow | Faculty Institute for Inclusive Excellence 2023 | Office for Inclusive Excellence

Co-Editor | Praxis and Topoi Sections | Kairos: A Journal of Rhetoric, Technology, & Pedagogy

Pronouns | he, him, his

Colorado State University acknowledges, with respect, that the land we are on today is the traditional and ancestral homelands of the Arapaho, Cheyenne, and Ute Nations and peoples.

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[Clancy Ratliff]

Yes! Even better! Peitho is moving to the WAC Clearinghouse too, so I am a strong supporter of this idea. 

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[Annette Vee]

Oh, this is an interesting conversation! I am a **huge** fan of the WAC Clearinghouse, having published my two most recent projects with them. (Dartmouth '66 Seminar Exhibit and TextGenEd: Teaching with Text Generation Technologies). The traffic has been great--a lot of it, international, and diverse, as far as the stats can tell us (in addition to folks who have reached out to me directly). I can't say enough good things about their system, their support, and their open access policies. 

Annette

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[Stedman, Kyle D]

Agreed that the WAC Clearinghouse is amazing; they were incredibly helpful and easy to work with on my last edited collection, even though it was unusually big and full of multimedia. On licensing, they also happily allowed us to go CC BY-NC-ND for MOST of the book (their standard) but to make the assignments themselves CC BY-NC, so they’re easier to legally remix by other instructors.

 

I know I’m jumping ahead, but you can imagine that if the change happened, you’d eventually you’d want an FAQ, especially for young scholars. Like, as silly as it seems, the Elsevier page design says “Real, Legit, Academic Article of the Highest Caliber” to some readers in and out of our field—so we’d want to predict those fears of “will my C&C article be as top-tier as it used to be?” and answer them in advance. A lot of people could use a handy overview of what the problems with Elsevier are, too.

 

But yeah, ultimately I’d support the switch (though I have no sway here, not being on the board or anything).

 

Kyle

 

From: intellectual-p...@googlegroups.com <intellectual-p...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Annette Vee
Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2023 10:02 AM
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Subject: Re: Unfinished business

 

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[BRADLEY BLECK]

Like many others here, I'm a huge fan of the WAC Clearinghouse, and Mike Palmquist has been a computers and writing guy from my first entry into the community, and we're talking 1995 here. 

 

Would we draft a resolution or proposal to go to the 4Cs executive committee, something along those lines? I'm all for it. 

Bradley Bleck
Spokane Falls CC
Spokane, WA
509.533.3572

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[Timothy Amidon]

Has anyone spoken with Kris Blair yet? It seems like starting with Kris and, then, potentially the editorial board, might be a judicious move.

Timothy R. Amidon, Ph.D. 

Associate Professor | Department of English | Colorado State University

Associate Professor | Environmental and Occupational Health | Colorado School of Public Health

CSU Presidential Leadership Fellow 20222-2023 | Office of the Vice President for Research 

Fellow | Faculty Institute for Inclusive Excellence 2023 | Office for Inclusive Excellence

Co-Editor | Praxis and Topoi Sections | Kairos: A Journal of Rhetoric, Technology, & Pedagogy

Pronouns | he, him, his

Colorado State University acknowledges, with respect, that the land we are on today is the traditional and ancestral homelands of the Arapaho, Cheyenne, and Ute Nations and peoples.

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[Clancy Ratliff]

I do think the next (first) move should be speaking to Kris. We also need to find out if there are terms for editors, or if an editor stays on until they don't want to do it anymore. I'm hoping those in this group who are on the Editorial Board would be willing to broach the subject with Kris. The CCCC Executive Committee doesn't have any authority over C&C.

Clancy Ratliff, Ph.D.
Professor
Assistant Department Head
Department of English
University of Louisiana at Lafayette
http://culturecat.net/portfolio/

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[Lanette Cadle]

Clancy, 

I am not on the board for either Computers and Composition or Computers snd Composition Online, but I agree that an open and honest discussion with Kris expressing continued concerns about Elsevier would be the best starting point. I checked the board for Computers and Composition, and out of the subscribers to this group, Karen Lunsford may be the only one. David Blakesley is on the board too if he is still in this group. 

I use the WAC Clearinghouse for my classes and am a big fan, but know that it would not count as publication in the same way as print with a major publisher within the tenure and promotion process— not like Computers snd Composition currently does.  I have served multiple years as Personnel Chair for my department and have done a number of outside reviews for those going up for tenure or promotion. I’ve heard the conversations and read the letters. I don’t think a FAQ page would make up for the lost prestige. Now, if there is a publisher that has the same prestige as Elsevier without the past problems and at lower cost to subscribers, well, that would be good.  

Lanette

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 1, 2023, at 11:22 AM, Clancy Ratliff <clancy....@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Devoss, Danielle Nicole]

FYI, all -- 

This may be an ideal time to initiate a conversation with Kris, as she is preparing to move out of the role of editor of Computers and Composition. 

Applications are currently open for a new editor in chief, who will begin as associate editor in March 2024 and then take over as editor in chief January 1, 2025.

Leaning on Kris' expertise and experience and ideally being able to engage the conversation with the person transitioning in seems ideal.

Danielle

___________________________________________

 

Chair and William J. Beal Distinguished Professor

Writing, Rhetoric, and Cultures

College of Arts & Letters

Michigan State University

 

434 Farm Lane #235

East Lansing, Michigan 48824

517/355-2400; 517/353-5250 (fax)

www.danielledevoss.org

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Subject: Re: Unfinished business

 

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[Clancy Ratliff]

Jim Purdy is on the editorial board too. Dànielle, thanks for this context!

Clancy Ratliff, Ph.D.
Professor
Assistant Department Head
Department of English
University of Louisiana at Lafayette
http://culturecat.net/portfolio/

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[Clancy Ratliff]

I see too that there are a lot of international scholars on the Editorial Board. Some of them may have reasons to want to stick with Elsevier -- plus, Computers and Composition is actually open access, though I don't know who pays the $4000+ per article for that. Do authors pay subventions? More info here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/journal/computers-and-composition/publish/open-access-options 

So that should be part of the conversation.

Clancy Ratliff, Ph.D.
Professor
Assistant Department Head
Department of English
University of Louisiana at Lafayette
http://culturecat.net/portfolio/

On Wed, Nov 1, 2023 at 11:57 AM Devoss, Danielle Nicole <devo...@msu.edu> wrote:

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[Timothy Amidon]

We have a program through our library that is underutilized that provides funds to create open-access in versions such as this.

Timothy R. Amidon, Ph.D. 

Associate Professor | Department of English | Colorado State University

Associate Professor | Environmental and Occupational Health | Colorado School of Public Health

CSU Presidential Leadership Fellow 20222-2023 | Office of the Vice President for Research 

Fellow | Faculty Institute for Inclusive Excellence 2023 | Office for Inclusive Excellence

Co-Editor | Praxis and Topoi Sections | Kairos: A Journal of Rhetoric, Technology, & Pedagogy

Pronouns | he, him, his

Colorado State University acknowledges, with respect, that the land we are on today is the traditional and ancestral homelands of the Arapaho, Cheyenne, and Ute Nations and peoples.

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[Clancy Ratliff]

Just saw the call. I highlighted a couple of things that seem like examples people would point to when making the case to stay with Elsevier: administrative support and analytics.

Invitation to Apply for Editorship of Computers and Composition Applications Due: December 1

Elsevier is now seeking candidates for the position of Editor in Chief for Computers and Composition: An International Journal. The Editor’s primary responsibilities will include overseeing the editorial workflow that include overall 100 submissions annually, coordinating the editorial team (Associate Editor and Editorial Board Members), working directly with journal management, evaluating all submissions to determine suitability with the journal’s mission and audiences. Other responsibilities include promoting the journal at conferences and other disciplinary forums; sustaining a diverse global editorial board; developing special issues on timely and relevant themes, and maintaining the timeliness and quality of the review process. Additional duties involve coordination of the annual Computers and Composition Awards in five categories.

Appointment as the Editor in Chief will begin on January 1, 2025, following an initial phase as Associate Editor that will begin in March 2024. The term of appointment is for three years.

Mission: Computers and Composition is now in its 40th year and boasts over 100,000 downloads annually from five continents. The journal is devoted to exploring the use of technology in writing classes, writing programs, and writing studies research. It provides a forum for discussing issues connected to digital composing processes in the academy and in the larger culture and relies on sound theoretical, pedagogical, and methodological frameworks. The journal also welcomes articles that explore of ethical, legal, or social issues related to the use of composing technologies in academic and community contexts; and to discussions of how such technologies affect form and content for written and multimodal discourse, the process by which this discourse is produced, and the impact this discourse has on an audience.

Qualifications: Qualifications for the position of Editor in Chief include relevant editorial experience; expertise in the areas of digital rhetoric and writing research; ability to work effectively with the Associate Editor, Editorial Board, reviewers, authors, the global editorial production team and journal manager. Preferred qualifications also include experience with the journal as an author, reviewer, or Editorial Board Member.

Application process: Individuals or editorial teams may submit applications, recommendations, and nominations (including self-nominations) to Marta Baena Jurado, Publisher, by December 1st at m.baen...@elsevier.com. Full applications should include a current vita, and a two- to three-page statement expressing interest, summarizing qualifications, presenting a vision for the journal, and indicating feasibility for service with respect to institutional support for devoting time and resources to editorial duties. Applications will be reviewed by a sub-committee of the Editorial Board, including the current editor, and the Publisher, soon after the submission deadline.

Clancy Ratliff, Ph.D.
Professor
Assistant Department Head
Department of English
University of Louisiana at Lafayette
http://culturecat.net/portfolio/

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[Jim Purdy]

Hi, all,

Sorry to be joining this conversation late. I'm co-chairing the National Conference on Peer Tutoring in Writing, which starts today, so I'm swamped, but I saw my name mentioned. This is an important conversation. There are larger issues of academic labor here, too, that are worth considering, and I'm happy to join this conversation after the conference.

Yes, I'm on the C&C editorial board. Kris Blair is also my Dean and direct supervisor for my role as writing center director at my institution. So I'm not the best person to talk with her about leaving Elsevier, though I agree wholeheartedly that talking with her should be the first step.

Take care,

Jim

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[Clancy Ratliff]

OK, I went ahead and messaged Kris. I'll let you know what I find out. I didn't mention the IP Standing Group or any of your names. Hopefully she won't be irritated about the questions (what are the benefits of having C&C with Elsevier, and would the Editorial Board be willing to discuss eventually moving to the WAC Clearinghouse), but if she is, it'll be at me alone, and I can accept that.

Clancy Ratliff, Ph.D.
Professor

Department of English
University of Louisiana at Lafayette
http://culturecat.net/portfolio/

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[Timothy Amidon]

Kris is super gracious in my experience, and I think she has a strong understanding of both OA and WAC-C. Framing it from the perspective of an inquiry about that decision and openness of the ed board to that seems like an incredibly smart approach to take. FWIW, a few years back, we had a similar conversation with SWR and that’s lead to some of the back/out of print editions moving to WAC. Steve Parks had good reasons for continuing with the current model, but also saw the benefit of having an OA model. 

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[BRADLEY BLECK]

Thank you Clancy. I'm more than happy to have you present it as a caucus request so you can serve more as messenger than trouble maker. 

Bradley Bleck
Spokane Falls CC
Spokane, WA
509.533.3572

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[Clancy Ratliff]

I'm relieved to say that Kris was very cool about my questions! Here is an excerpt:

I also appreciate your commitment to open access, which has been a tough issue all these years with C&C. C&C is very well supported; it has a journal manager, a production team, etc., though it is hard to work with them from a global distance. I do think it's going to be a collective harder sell; the editorial board for C&C has become increasingly global, with members beyond the regular C&W community and read in five continents. The reality is that Elsevier carries the copyright over C&C, so I guess it really sort of depends on who applies for the editorship. I wish I could offer a stronger sense of direction on this one but am being honest as to the likelihood of this happening.

I asked her in a reply about how they pay for C&C to be open access -- if authors pay a subvention or if they have a funding source. I'm sure she'll respond soon.

Clancy Ratliff, Ph.D.
Professor
Assistant Department Head
Department of English
University of Louisiana at Lafayette
http://culturecat.net/portfolio/

[Clancy Ratliff]

This from Kris about my question of how the open access fee gets covered:

Yes, there is definitely a major fee that keeps C&C from being truly open access, as it's in the thousands. I'm surprised some pay it, but they usually have support from their schools. Authors can distribute their articles for free for 50 days and then it goes behind the paywall.

I think the C&C/WAC Clearinghouse thing is probably a lost cause at this point, barring some major shake-up, like if the new editor is a strong supporter of it and reconstitutes the Editorial Board appointing a lot of Elsevier opponents. I'm glad I brought it up, though.

Clancy Ratliff, Ph.D.
Professor
Assistant Department Head
Department of English
University of Louisiana at Lafayette
http://culturecat.net/portfolio/