Licentiate Members in IIISLA and their legal status

[S. Anoop Kumar]

Dear Friends,

This is in reply to Mr. Anil Arya and Mr. Mudigonda Nageshwar Rao who raised query about the Licentiate Members and surveyors. Let me share some details with you. I am opening a new discussion thread here in order to avoid the clutter, getting lost or mazing through the unwanted messages.

IIISLA is a company registered under Companies Act. IIISLA has it's own constitution, Memorandum of Association, or MOA in short, and the working modalities defined in Articles of Association, or AOA. Our MOA and AOA are registered with Registrar of Companies (ROC). We need to work within the framework of our MOA and AOA.

IIISLA AOA recognises and defines only two categories of memberships as of now. Associate and Fellow. Ignore the student membership for the sake of this discussion. There is no other membership available in IIISLA nor it is recognised. There is no any membership called as Licentiate Member in IIISLA as per AOA.

Then how did this Licentiate Membership come into the picture or into existence and why was it issued if it is not recognised by our AOA?

Quite frankly and equally bluntly to put it, it was asked for by our own IIISLA leaders, they recommended it to IRDA and got the recommendations approved by Insurance Advisory Committee (IAC) and IRDA accepted the recommendations of IAC, issued Surveyors Regulations 2013 which replaces the categorisation of surveyors from A, B & C to Fellow, Associate and Licentiate depending on the level of membership in IIISLA. This Surveyors Regulations 2013 was issued by IRDA without first amending our IIISLA AOA.

Based on the IRDA's Regulations, IIISLA CC also started issuing Licentiate membership to the new members but again without first amending our IIISLA AOA. There was once an attempt to amend the AOA during 2014 AGM held at Hyderabad under the leadership of Mr. Sunil Vora at the fag end of his term. But the proposed amendments also included granting of membership to private insurance companies employees too holding SLA license. The general body totally rejected the amendments in its entirety for they feared that amendment for grant of membership to private insurance employees will also be taken as approved if any amendment is approved.

But thereafter during the last AGM held on 29th September 2015 at Hyderabad under the leadership of Mr. Ashok Kumar there was a proposal by the CC to place the amendments before the general body. But the amendments also included granting of membership to private insurance employees once again. This time the entire proposal had to be withdrawn for there was a severe protest from the members from all over India. There is several pressure from IRDA to grant membership to all SLA holders, including to the employees of private insurance companies.

And later the CC did not show much interest on this issue. They had time to ponder on and waste on modified data collection and they had time to call for an EGM at Kanpur to decide on the BF scheme... but not that of regularisation of the Licentiate memberships issued.

During the previous CC elections held during 2014/15 for 7th CC the Licentiate Members were denied voting rights because IIISLA AOA does not recognise Licentiate Members. And it happened again during the last and just concluded CC elections. It would repeat for the next CC elections too due to be announced sometime during the next month. This will happen again and again till such time the AOA is amended and the Licentiate Members are given a legal status.

As of today there is no place for Licentiate Members in IIISLA and the memberships given to them have no legal status. Technically they just do not exist.

I raised this topic several times on group message boards but there was no great response or attention given to it by the members, including the Licentiate Members themselves. And Licentiate Members are always remembered just before elections only and to be forgotten later.

Just think over what if a claim is contested by a claimant on the grounds that his claim was surveyed and quantified by a surveyor not holding legal status as per law?

I leave it to the members to debate and decide and to arrive at a best and acceptable solution.

Regards,

S. Anoop Kumar,
Sent from my iPhone 6S

[swapan basu]

Licentiates themselves are to be blamed. They don't update themselves neither do they know  their legal status. They pay some money to an Institute formed by a group  of people .  But they don't know for what purpose and why are they paying. They don't question their legal status in that Institute.  Technically and legally(so far) they have no locus standi. They should be made aware of this. If they realise this they should now unite themselves ,take on the Institute and stop paying any money to anybody  unless the Institute  enrol them as legal members of the Institute with voting rights.

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From: S. Anoop Kumar
Sent: ‎02-‎09-‎2016 17:16
To: insurance-su...@googlegroups.com; iiisla...@googlegroups.com; Insurance surveyors; iiisla...@gmail.com; iiislach...@gmail.com
Subject: Licentiate Members in IIISLA and their legal status

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[S. Anoop Kumar]

Mr. Swapan Basu,

Please read the reproduced content from my message...

I raised this topic several times on group message boards but there was no great response or attention given to it by the members, including the Licentiate Members themselves.

Perhaps they are comfortable with what they are or perhaps they are busy with their own works.  Perhaps we are unnecessarily taking interest in the matter in which the licentiate members themselves are not interested.  

Regards,

S. Anoop Kumar.  

[S. Anoop Kumar]

Yes Mr. Anil Arya... it's the Licentiate Members who should be interested in the issue because it concerns them, their SLA licences, their careers and their livelihood.

There are 3 available solutions to the problem on hand.

One... Cancel all the memberships issued to all Licentiate Members for they are not recognised by IIISLA AOA. Not are all advised. Too much damage would be done to the young surveyors and also to the profession and creates a vacuum at the junior level.

Two... Convert all Licentiate Members to Associate Members as our IIISLA AOA recognises only Associate members at the entry level and Fellow members at the senior level. Same as in Institute of Chartered Accountants of India (ICAI).

Most advisable solution and quite an easy one too for the decision can be taken at the IIISLA CC level only. No prior permission is needed from ROC or from IRDA. Difference in annual subscription fees for this financial year can be collected from the members converted from Licentiate to Associates. IIISLA should go for this solution.

Three.... Propose necessary amendments to the IIISLA AOA, place it before the general body, AGM or EGM, get it approved by the general body (whenever and wherever it takes place), then forward it to IRDA for their acceptance and approval, and then submit it to ROC for their acceptance, approval and leading to incorporating the changes in our IIISLA AOA.

Too much work involved, too much time consuming, too many approvals needed, too costly an affair, too many uncertainties, too many ifs and buts, and still outcome is not certain. Even if approved by ROC and changes made in IIISLA AOA, the changes come into effect from the prospective date only but not retrospective effect.

Hope the members get the clear picture and clarity on the subject.

S. Anoop Kumar.

[S. Anoop Kumar]

Dear Mr. Love Patel,

Thanks for your reply and reaction.  You have certainly filled some gaps missing in my earlier messages.

You are an elected CC member and we are looking for solutions, and easy solutions at that, to grant legal status to all Licentiate Members of IIISLA.  Not to keep them in a suspended animation.  Na ghar ka naa ghaat ka.  

I think the Licentiate memberships were first issued during the tenure of Mr. Sunil Vora and he sincerely tried to make amendments to AOA too to give it a legal status.  Not by Ms. Sudha Ramanujam and Mr. M. Rama Prasad of IRDA.  They merely followed what has been started.  I may please be corrected if I am wrong.

But the previous CC and the 7th Council, after the election of all 12 CC members, had all the time in the world to correct the course of action, but they never did.

We need to follow the law of the land as it exists now.  As of now IIISLA AOA recognises only Associate and Fellow members.  So every new applicant should have been and should be granted Associate membership only.  After making necessary amendments to the AOA and after approval by ROC, Licentiate membership can be granted from that date onwards.

So I am of the strong opinion that all the Licentiate members should be immediately converted to and treated as Associate members of IIISLA as of now, and till such time the amended AOA comes into effect  

Hope I am clear.  

S. Anoop Kumar,

Sent from my iPhone 6S

On 04-Sep-2016, at 8:28 PM, Love Patel <lovepa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Mr. Anoop Kumar,

I am pasting here few lines from earlier mail,

"  Three....  Propose necessary amendments to the IIISLA AOA, place it before the general body, AGM or EGM, get it approved by the general body (whenever and wherever it takes place), then forward it to IRDA for their acceptance and approval, and then submit it to ROC for their acceptance, approval and leading to incorporating the changes in our IIISLA AOA.

Too much work involved, too much time consuming, too many approvals needed, too costly an affair,  too many uncertainties, too many ifs and buts, and still outcome is not certain.  Even if approved by ROC and changes made in IIISLA AOA, the changes come into effect from the prospective date only but not retrospective effect. "

I have some different opinion. It is Neither time consuming nor costly affair. Yes, uncertainties, too some extent, do exists.

The courage and support from our members are only required.

Before commenting further, i would like to mention some other facts, which are missing in mail from Shri Anoop Kumar.

1. The issuance of Licentiate membership was started from 2013.

2. In absence of any elected council member, the then nominee director specially Mrs Sudha Ramanujam have issued enough Licentiate memberships.

3. In last election of Chapters & zone, the licentiate members having voting rights and few odd have elected too.

I, further would like to quote mails of some other members, having topic "before IIISLA & after IIISLA".

I understand most of members feels IIISLA as Surveyors association or some sort of trade union.

Yes, IISA was formed by surveyors, but one must know that IIISLA was brought by IRDA, GOI & MOF. Every surveyor was compelled to become its member. (my personal opinion).  The acts & regulations are also revised accordingly.

Further to say, mandate of AGM, for correction in AOA, before filing with ROC needs approval from nominee directors (mainly regulator).

 Now, coming on working of CC. 

Every agenda are well debated / discussed, opposed (if required) and passed after voting / mandate. MOM was well placed in minutes book.

The Central council is working hard to get actual Independent status for IIISLA. Sufficient representations are already being made with respective authorities and response is awaited.

The declaration of election of CC (2016-2017) is expected within this month. The voting right to Licentiate member shall not be possible as AGM and filing mandate with ROC after approval from regulator, in this short time.

However, i am very much hopeful that after this election, they shall be having voting right.

Thanks to one & all.

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Thanks & regards
 
*Love Patel*
(Surveyor)

HIG 91, Bharhut Nagar, Satna
Madhy pradesh, India 485001
Contact 9425172741

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