Re: {Surveyors:15738} Machinery Fire Claim

[Dilip Ashtekar]

Please procure the particular policy & study It is a right solution.

Whether fire ball falls on the material insured or the material reached the fire ball, the loss cause by fire ball  is covered.

Dilip. B. Ashtekar
(Surveyor)
Associated Surveyors and Valuers.


From: Ajay Kumar <ajayk...@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 17:46:03
To: insurance...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Insurance Surveyors India <insurance-su...@googlegroups.com>, Insurance-Adjusters <Insurance...@googlegroups.com>, iiislagroup <iiisl...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: {Surveyors:15738} Machinery Fire Claim
Dear sir,

Standard fire and Special perils Policy cover risk 1-12 as mentioned and this type of loss is covered under sl. no1 & 3

1 Fire

excluding

a. its own fermentation, natural heating or spontaneous combustion.

b. its undergoing any heating and drying process.

c. burning of property insured by order of any public authority.  

3. Explosion / Implosion

excluding Loss, destruction of or damage

a. to boilers (other than domestic boilers), economizers or other vessels, machinery or apparatus (in which steam is generated) or their contents resulting from their own explosion/implosion.

b. caused by centrifugal forces.

I have surveyed more than ten claims of crucibles blown or molted material leaked out but neither crucible nor molten material is considered in assessment of loss since they are excluded as per policy sl.no-1-b & 3-a and basic exclusion in fire as originated. damage caused to harness, Yokes and cables are covered but crucible with heating / cooling coils are excluded. kindly reply if it is wrong.

With thanks & regards,

Kumar & Co

Ajay kumar

surveyor

mob-9835093859   

On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 5:12 PM, M S Sainani <sai...@adjusterindia.com> wrote:

Dear Friends,

This reminds me of one Fire Circular of Year 2001 of TAC which is
reproduced below: -
Quote
----------------
FT/
15/2001
Date : 30-7-2001
Re: Extension of the Standard Fire & Special Perils Policy to cover
damage due to Molten Material Spillage
The Tariff Advisory Committee has decided the following rates, terms
and conditions for the above cover as an extension of the fire cover
on "First Loss" basis.
Rates and Terms
Premium Rate
MD      Re. 0.65%o
LOP     Re. 0.65%o
Deductible
MD      Nil
LOP     7 days
Conditions:
1.      There shall be no claim due to molten material spillage during the
2 years period prior to the policy period at inception.
2.      LOP cover to be limited to 50% of respective loss limit opted for
material damage
3.      loss or damage to the spilled material to be excluded
The above decision will be effective for all fresh business and
renewals falling on or after the date hereof.
Insurers are requested to inform their operating offices suitably in
this regard.
----------------
Unquote

More inputs from friends in light of above circular are invited.

Breg

M S Sainani

On Mar 24, 12:36 pm, abhijeet nalawade <abnsurvey...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Because it is written in the policy.
>
> On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 10:44 PM, rohila praveen <rohila_p...@yahoo.co.in>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Mr. Anil ji,
>
> > Please also explain the basis of denying the claim of crucible/linings etc.
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > Praveen Rohila
>
> >   ------------------------------
> > *From:* Anil Khubchandani <khubchandania...@gmail.com>
> > *To:* insurance-su...@googlegroups.com
> > *Sent:* Saturday, 23 March 2013 4:33 PM
> > *Subject:* RE: Machinery Fire Claim
>
> > Loss to crucible and lining etc. not payable. Rest damaged due to flow of
> > molten metal is payable.
>
> > Anil Khubchandani
> > Bhopal (09826075885)
>
> > *From:* insurance-su...@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> > insurance-su...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Amol Bora
> > *Sent:* Saturday, March 23, 2013 3:42 PM
> > *To:* insurance-su...@googlegroups.com
> > *Cc:* iiisla...@googlegroups.com; iisla....@gmail.com
> > *Subject:* Machinery Fire Claim
>
> > Dear Members,
>
> > In a SSI Unit, cold chamber die-casting machine is damaged due to
> > fire-blasting of furnace crucible. Molten metal inside the crucible came
> > out from the bottom port and spread all around the machine (YIZUMI Make
> > DM900T Cold chamber die-casting machine with an approximate cost of
> > Rs.1.5Crore). Molten metal which came out was having temperature of about
> > 750 deg. Celsius, damaging machine wiring and other parts. Hence the cause
> > of fire / loss is due to blasting of furnace crucible.
>
> > Original machine was imported without crucible and Indian / local made
> > crucible was attached to the machine. Insurance policy issued is SFSP
> > policy covering entire machineries in the plant.
>
> > Whether the claim is admissible and which items are to be excluded?
> > Learned Members views please.
>
> > With warm regards,
>
> > Amol Bora.
>
> > *Amol Bora & Co.*
> > Govt. Registered Valuers, Insurance Surveyors,
> > Panel Arbitrators & Professional Engineers.
>
> > *OFFICES:-*
> > *Pune *:-  “INDRASHANTI”, 1137/12, Rege path, Model Colony, Off.F.C.Road,
> > Shivajinagar,Pune-411 016 Tel:-(020)25679666, 25663363 Fax:(020)25660100
>
> > *Mumbai  *:- B-104,’SHILP’, Junction of N.M.Joshi & P.B.Marg, Near Deepak
> > Cinema,
> > Lower parel / Worli, Mumbai-400 013. Tel:(022)24374363Telefax:(022)66662061
>
> > *Ahmednagar *:- 11, Dhoot center, Nagar College Road, Near Badve Petrol
> > Pump,
> > Ahmednagar-414 001 Tel:(0241)2344331 Telefax:(0241)2344331
>
> > Email:-amolb...@vsnl.net, amolbo...@gmail.com     Mobile:- 9422306698 &
> > 9324633553
> > --
> > Note:
>
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> >   --
> > Note:
>
> > This is purely a private group of Insurance Surveyors in India strictly
> > for their own internal circulation & consumption. The messages posted and
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> > group owner/moderators are in no way responsible for any opinions expressed
> > and/or offending messages that are posted on the message board.
>
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> --
> Thanks!
> Warm Regards!
> *Er. Abhijeet B. Nalawade* B. E. (Mechanical), CE, MIE
> *INSURANCE SURVEYOR LOSS ASSESSOR & CHARTERED ENGINEER*
> *Rowhouse 31, SAIVIHAR, Near Saidham, New Khadgaon road, LATUR
> TQ. & DIST. LATUR. Pincode - 413531(M.S)
> Mobile- 9373069847 / 9422069847
> Motor - C, Engineering - C, Miscellaneous - C   *

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Thanks & Regards,
Ajay Kumar
Surveyor & Loss Assessor,
Mob- 09835093859
Tel- 0612-2668153

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[chandra dasaraju]

Dear Sir,

I refer to the comments as quoted below:

-Quote:

Standard fire and Special perils Policy cover risk 1-12 as mentioned and this type of loss is covered under sl. no1 & 3

1 Fire

excluding

a. its own fermentation, natural heating or spontaneous combustion.

b. its undergoing any heating and drying process.

c. burning of property insured by order of any public authority.  

3. Explosion / Implosion

excluding Loss, destruction of or damage

a. to boilers (other than domestic boilers), economizers or other vessels, machinery or apparatus (in which steam is generated) or their contents resulting from their own explosion/implosion.

b. caused by centrifugal forces.

I have surveyed more than ten claims of crucibles blown or molted material leaked out but neither crucible nor molten material is considered in assessment of loss since they are excluded as per policy sl.no-1-b & 3-a and basic exclusion in fire as originated. damage caused to harness, Yokes and cables are covered but crucible with heating / cooling coils are excluded. kindly reply if it is wrong.

With thanks & regards,

Kumar & Co

Ajay kumar

surveyor

mob-9835093859   

- Unquote

I would like draw your kind attention to the exclusion mentioned.  I am of the opinion that the crucible does not fall into this exclusion, as we can not assert that this is undergoing heating or drying process.  In fact the crucible heats up the material loaded into it, but does not qualify it to be termed as undergoing the process of heating.  Agreed the material undergoing heating process in the crucible itself gets excluded, as per the exclusion (1-b) quoted.  

In respect of 3-a, crucible is not an apparatus where steam is generated, hence does not qualify to be excluded under this clause.  The exclusion here also is to contents due to their own explosion / implosion.

May be this clause require closer scrutiny before applying to any claim.

Thanks & Regards,

dcs raju, hyderabad.

+91-99490-95995.