what punishment for persons not holding license and surveying.

[C K Bhatia]

Dear Friends

Section 64 UM in the very first para reads as below- 

64UM (1) (A) Save as otherwise provided in this section, no person shall act as a surveyor or loss assessor in respect of general insurance business after the expiry of a period of one year from the commencement of the Insurance (Amendment) Act, 1968, unless he holds a valid licence issued to him by the Authority.

We have good number of persons on our board who have legal knowledge and also access to legal luminaries. Can they throw some light that the above section is violated by some person who surveys a claim with possessing a valid license. What is the punishment to him or what action can be taken against  and under what law or section. 

Other members may also please give the thoughts on the same please.

C K BHATIA

 

[Denesh Saxena]

Dear All,

 

I am unable to understand that if a person doing surveyes for G.I.C. with holding valid license

 then how he is violating any law.

 

In case any persons are doing survey jobs without holding valid license are violating the law as

per Section 64 UM but in the sameany punishment is not defined for doing such practice.

As the matter of fact the guidelines as per section 64 UM are not only for the persons acting

as surveyors but also for the insurers and at the same time both are violating the rule in

various cases. 

 

Complaints are already made to IRDA, Govt. and legal suits are also filed as the Courts Of Law

& Justice and Govt. can only do the justice in the matter. 

 

Our so called institute i.e. past & present leadership has not done enough in the matter.

 

Mr. Shailesh has been writing to all the concerned authorities including Supreme Court & ministers. 

 

Throwing a question on the board without any solution has become the havits of a few members

just to show that they are quite concerned about the surveyor's problems but the fact remains

somewhere else.

 

We have to be alert in recognising and ignoring such persons.

 

Regards

 

D.K. SAXENA   

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[amar kant jha]

Dear Friends,

There are two different matter involved in this in my opinion.

1. A person who is not having Licence or do not qualify to have  Surveyor Licence and practicing as SURVEYOR.

2. An Individual Surveyor- Grabs  jobs more than his capacity and allows- a person with no qualification to conduct Survey and - This Individual Surveyor only signs the report.

 In  my opinion:-

 In first case - It is better to know the Original Source- WHO is utilizing that PERSON, Then charge that person- On Association Level and Protest.

Field a criminal case against that such person- On behalf of Association- No individual should get involved .

In Second case;-  It is general Members to decide How to face this problem or ignore such activity.

Amar Kant Jha

0933-47-84485

PATNA

31.08.2011

---

From: Denesh Saxena <dk.crea...@gmail.com>
To: insurance...@googlegroups.com
Cc: "insurance-su...@googlegroups.com" <insurance-su...@googlegroups.com>; "iiisl...@googlegroups.com" <iiisl...@googlegroups.com>; Vinod Agarwal <avi...@gmail.com>; Atul Datt <ad...@matrixworld.biz>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: {Surveyors:9652} what punishment for persons not holding license and surveying.

[shailesh shah]

solution is there. We demanded irda to publish the data of last 5 years and u will get to know exactly who is at fault. if you are so courageous please do something to get it done. We all will celebrate the victory through your leadership Sir. 

 
This message is from
Shailesh B. Shah
Insurance Surveyor / Loss Assessor
Vadodara Cell- 9824021192

[Denesh Saxena]

Dear All,

 

The way for finding the solution has been recently shown by Sri Anna & his team.

 

I too have suggested many times that we all must first go on at least one day indicatory strike at our places but on

one date under information to print & electronic media.

 

If not heard we must increase the time duration on the next time after some interval and after a few such repeatation

we must go on indefinite strike at our places with many of us also gathering in the national capital.

 

I also suggested that we practically must make the efforts to stop the survey jobs being conducted by unlicensed 

in house surveyors even if it is required the matter can also we taken to the police stations.

 

But any so called leaders & zonal chair persons never listened. 

 

In Bhimtal seminar I also distributed the detailed write-up on the same problems among the delegates etc.

 

I also addressed  the delegates on closing ceramony on the same problems in the same seminar but

no result has come out till the date.

[shailesh shah]

my dear friend,
how many of these steps you followed yourself, did you stop accepting work, did you register F.I.R. against any Inhouse surveyor, did you fast for even a day for this cause, simply distributing flyers or even for that matter writing here will not yield results, all these or whatever one can, when done will automatically bring good results. You start, the world will follow you, first they will suspect your intention and after some time when they understand you are doing honest work they will put down their shastras and join your movement, this happened with Annaji also and will happen with any leader in any profession.

Saying is easy, doing is difficult but not impossible.


 

This message is from
Shailesh B. Shah
Insurance Surveyor / Loss Assessor
Vadodara Cell- 9824021192

[Denesh Saxena]

Dear Sri Shailesh & All,

 

All of us are doing the same thing including you that many are suggesting the quite very good ways but in practical doing nothing

and as the result certain other type people are solving their purposes. Some so called responsible persons with their special team have been maintaining silence because they had jobs of using quite huge funds etc at their disposal and a few others in the que have kept acting as they are very much eager to help the fraternity but have never done any thing in right direction though because of their quite good drama many people like me & you also supported them in hope of justice. You can take the example of Mr. Bhatia in this context that after gettting support and finally the assignment for carrying out the job of so called financial enquiry and even in spite of

necessary facilitation he has openly denied for issuing the said report just for the sake of a few persons already alleged for misusing IIISLA funds by him. That is the extreme of limits in the particular direction.

 

I surprise that how easy is it to question others for doing nothing and when it comes the time to see into your own efforts it is fuss.

I really want to stress at the point that a few persons are keeping us busy in writing as we take it as our duty to tell people what is

right & what is wrong and it is always good but it has not proved to be the enough. I really admire you for your write ups but no result has come out as such we have to do some thing in practical.

 

I am surprised if it is taken as the movement of Sri Anna was driven by one force only i.e. him self. Please try to understand that

forces of like minded people remained with him as his team and it all was very much well planned movement which was also

helped financially. How many members of main Anna team have to earn their bread & butter themselves or have to go on their jobs.

 

I wanted to indicate the way & style but our case is different. How many people including appreciable Punjab's so active zone has come forward and have written even a single line in favour of what I suggeted and have already suggested inpast too.

 

You have written but in the way of questioning more and supporting less.

 

My dear friend we still have time to react as such please forget the other type of people & neglect them. Try to contact the like minded surveyors and not the dramatists. Try to communicate out of this board and connect the people to know what is required by them and are they ready for any such movements. I have already told that all of us have to do our jobs and may not be comfertable financially too as such we can start the movement from our place only but have to be well connected with each other.

 

We have to make a core group and I am inviting the like minded people to contact me for their confirmation of being agreed for such a movement of demonstrating & indicatory strike and I am ready to lead the movement to all the possible extents as permitted by God if it is required.

 

Regards

 

D.K. SAXENA

Mob. 9837048029

[shailesh shah]

with pleasure i will join anyday for this demonstration in front of IRDA office. Do we fix a date 15th September? Before that please prepare a draft that we shall submit to the Chairman IRDA and other press people while holding dharna and who will take the permission from Police dept.  to hold dharna and a temporary shed might be required, recently Sodhiji held one such event in support of Anna Hazare, take his help he would be ready to support yet another step forward. But freeze down the DRAFT and publish it- even Bhatiaji would join this dharna i believe.
 

This message is from
Shailesh B. Shah
Insurance Surveyor / Loss Assessor
Vadodara Cell- 9824021192

[amar kant jha]

Dear Sir,

You got NEW LEADER to lead, You got support. Please fix the date and start.

Amar Kant Jha

0933-47-84485

PATNA

2.09.2011

---

From: shailesh shah <shaile...@gmail.com>
To: insurance...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2011 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: {Surveyors:9674} what punishment for persons not holding license and surveying.

[chand Bhatia]

You have suggested to file a FIR against the person who is utilising
the person without license. My simple question to all the surveyors
was simple

1. If a person is caught doing survey without licenses (immaterial of
who is utilising him) is violating a section 64 UM (1) (A). Now what
is the law to punish such a person who has violated section 64 UM (1)
(A).

IRDA has provision to punish the companies or the surveyor who may be
violating the section 64 UM but I want to know the law under which
such a person is punishable.

Who should file an FIR or a case is seconday matter.

With this mail I once again request those who have knowldge of law and
acess to legal lumanaries to please speak on the same.

C K BHATIA

On Aug 31, 12:26 pm, amar kant jha <amarkant...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear Friends,
> There are two different matter involved in this in my opinion.
> 1. A person who is not having Licence or do not qualify to have  Surveyor Licence and practicing as SURVEYOR.
> 2. An Individual Surveyor- Grabs  jobs more than his capacity and allows- a person with no qualification to conduct Survey and - This Individual Surveyor only signs the report.
>  In  my opinion:-
>  In first case - It is better to know the Original Source- WHO is utilizing that PERSON, Then charge that person- On Association Level and Protest.
> Field a criminal case against that such person- On behalf of Association- No individual should get involved .
> In Second case;-  It is general Members to decide How to face this problem or ignore such activity.
> Amar Kant Jha
> 0933-47-84485
> PATNA
> 31.08.2011
>

> Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 10:15 AM, C K Bhatia <ckbhatia_surve...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Friends
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Section 64 UM in the very first para reads as below- 
>

> >64UM (1) (A) Saveasotherwise provided in this section, no person shall act as a surveyor or loss assessor in respect of general insurance businessafter the expiry of a period ofone year from the commencement of the Insurance (Amendment) Act, 1968, unless he holds a valid licence issued to him by the Authority.

>
> >We have good number of persons on our board who have legal knowledge and also access to legal luminaries. Can they throw some light that the above section is violated by some person who surveys a claim with possessing a valid license. What is the punishment to him or what action can be taken against  and under what law or section. 
>
> >Other members may also please give the thoughts on the same please.
>
> >C K BHATIA
> > --
> >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Insurance surveyors" group.
> >To post to this group, send email to insurance...@googlegroups.com.
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to insurance_surve...@googlegroups.com.

> >For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/insurance_surveyors?hl=en.

[Denesh Saxena]

Dear All,

 

I am really tired of reading such things.

 

Any body or lay man who lodges a f.i.r. with police dose not have to bother for that

under which law and under which section of I.P.C. the punishment is defined.

 

If any thing wrong takes place with any person he can lodge the f.i.r. and it would be

duty & job of police to register the case / crime under appropriate sections of I.P.C.

 

I have been saying and really tired of repeating that unlicensed persons should be stopped

from doing a survey job collectively and even the matter can be taken to police station for

lodging the f.i.r. simply mentioning therein that the alleged person was doing a job

illegaly i.e. without having a valid license and rest of the job would be done by the police &

Court.

 

Regards

 

D.K. SAXENA

[anshul mishra]

Dear Amarkant Ji
Plz tell what you will done if the office bearers of our association
is violating the rules of 64UM by sending the unauthorized person.
Since we all give the "security of milk to the cat".The who will file FIR agains him.
Anshu Misra
9829014945
Jaipur

---

From: chand Bhatia <bhatia...@gmail.com>
To: Insurance surveyors <insurance...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, 3 September, 2011 9:52:03 AM
Subject: Re: {Surveyors:9705} what punishment for persons not holding license and surveying.

> >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to insurance_surveyors+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

> >For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/insurance_surveyors?hl=en.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Insurance surveyors" group.
> To post to this group, send email to insurance...@googlegroups.com.

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> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/insurance_surveyors?hl=en.

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[Denesh Saxena]

Dear Sri Shailesh & All,

 

I am really thankful to Sri Shailesh & Sri J.K. Sharma (of Karnal) for their views and desire to do some thing considerable for

the fraternity of surveyors.

 

I really respect all such persons who are loyal to their profession and want to work for the improvement

of the same and fraternity.

 

In the matter I have to further suggest that we should not run for the goal without making the suitable strategy. As I have

already suggested we first have to connect the people working in various cities & towns for holding a one day indicatory

strike against the unfair acts being done with our profession and endangering our survival and to attract the society to our

genuine & justified problems. Our problem is well connected with the society as various insured if made aware of right

thing can refuse to get their losses surveyed by unlicensed persons and at least threat such persons to get their losses

surveyed by any licensed surveyor and complaining to IRDA or filing a suit in the Courts.

 

In Haldwani it has happened and after the threat of getting the loss surveyed by me, the such unlicensed representative of

an insurer escaped and finally the claiment got the information from the insurer for the early & suitable pament of his claim.

 

As I have already suggested that after repeating our strikes at various places but on same date(s) with increased days and

under information to print & electronic media we with desiring people would go ahead to the state capitals, national capital and

IRDA for demonstrating against the unlawful acts and our demands as time bond increase in fee schedule, expanses allowences

and right to collect our feeses from insured in all the outstaion claims in my view in 100% cases of private insurers.

 

In this way only the govt. would definitely concentrate on & consider our demands.

 

The matter has already delayed and the time has come that all of us in whole country must get awaken and prepare to do the

things practically.

 

As I have already assured that I would be available all the times to render my services to the fraternity.

 

Regards

 

D.K. SAXENA

Mob. 9837048029

 

[Denesh Saxena]

Dear Sri Anshu & All,

 

Please try to understand that all the institutions are run by the group of people repregentating their respective organizations.

 

A C.A. sends the juniors who are actually not C.A. but preparing for the exams but not objected. In the same manner if a senior

surveyor in emergency sends his any representative just to push the held up job forward then we should not make this as at par 

with the inhouse & contract survey practices done by unlicensed peoples.

 

If our problem is listened by the authorities and necessary steps are taken for stopping such practices which is actually threatening our existence then the alleged problems existing among us would also come to an end.

 

So please make efforts for awakening the respective authorities and be the part of this movement for the betterment of our

fraternity.

 

Regards

 

D.K. SAXENA

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to insurance_surve...@googlegroups.com.

[amar kant jha]

Dear  Sri Anshu ji,

Complaining  and coming in action  are two different matter. What ever you have asked from me, you yourself  has replied  in next paragraphs.

In whole  India- Only you came out with reply in protest. Our all  friends kept quiet, because  we all are involve in that.

But for you I will say, If you want to  go with rules move ahead. JO DAR GAYA SAMJO KI

------.Such system should come to end.

Amar Kant Jha

0933-47-84485

PATNA

4.09.2011

---

From: Denesh Saxena <dk.crea...@gmail.com>
To: insurance...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 3, 2011 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: {Surveyors:9711} what punishment for persons not holding license and surveying.

[amar kant jha]

Dear Sri BHATIA sir,

If your question is directed to me regarding filing a FIR, In that case I shall ask you to read my mail again.

For your convenience  I  am attaching that part again:-

In first case - It is better to know the Original Source- WHO is utilizing that PERSON, Then charge that person- On Association Level and Protest.

> Field a criminal case against that person- On behalf of Association- No individual should get involved .
I hope- you can clear your doubts-- In my opinion Only  ASSOCIATION can come directly into picture.
It is always better to  have your remark on any matter, after going through the matter totally.
Remark- after partial reading may lead you in  improper stage. Some time I also commit such mistake, So kindly go through thoroughly if mail is of Only few Lines.

Amar Kant Jha
0933-47-84485
PATNA

4.09.2011

---

From: Denesh Saxena <dk.crea...@gmail.com>
To: insurance...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 3, 2011 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: {Surveyors:9706} what punishment for persons not holding license and surveying.

[anshul mishra]

Dear Saxena Ji
As per your mail which I understand that the non technical and unqualified person send by Surveyor  is right and the surveyor of same category of private companies in house and contract survey is wrong.How can you set double standards in both cases.
In my opinion first we should clean in our self.
Otherwise they produce the same  against us.
Also please see the rules of IRDA code of conduct for surveyor the main surveyor should be there physically in case of surveyed by trainee surveyor.
Anshu Misra
Jaipur

---

From: Denesh Saxena <dk.crea...@gmail.com>

To: insurance...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, 3 September, 2011 12:11:18 PM
Subject: Re: {Surveyors:9711} what punishment for persons not holding license and surveying.

[Denesh Saxena]

Dear Sri Anshu & All,

 

As the matter of fact we have opined in the similar way an for the betterment of fraternity.

 

What I wanted to say is that only in case of inhouse & contract surveyors the job / insured is almost & finally is delt by the unqualified

person but in case of an independent surveyor the case / insured is finally delt by the qualified person and the unqualified person if sent is just to push the already attended jobs forward only.

 

I am never favouring the practice of using the unqualified person for carrying out the survey jobs many times & frequently by independent surveyors sitting in their offices / homes.

 

But for this reason we can not accept the practices of inhouse surveyors as right.

 

Regards

 

D.K. SAXENA