Upgradation of surveyor

[Naresh Kumar Kukkar]

Every profession grows when rules and regulations for profession are simple. Professional should work mainly on profession related matter rather than thinking about guiding institute. 

We as surveyor are divided by Licentiate, associate & fellow according to experience. Then we are divided by category be it fire, motor, engineering & others.

Upgradation is natural phenomenon as everybody want to grow. Surveyors also want to grow. Licentiate want to become associate & associate wants to become fellow. For that basic rule was made by barrier of 8 years & 16 year experience. It was good. Then barrier of training, confirmation from units & chapter added.  Then barrier for fellow added that they cannot work in licentiate limit.

Now training is expensive as good hotels are required so many hand to mouth surveyors are not able to take it. Some surveyors live in remote area where training is not conducted.  Sometimes chapter and unit head not cooperate and upgradation affected.  Many fellow members are still working in licentiate limits due to various reasons. So complex system is working, and natural upgradation process halted.

Same way categories restricted to three for senior surveyors. By court many received five but by natural process you will not get. This system needs overhauling.

I am contesting from All India to improve this system. Automatic upgradation on 8 & 16 years should be done and other barrier should be removed .  I had given many suggestions on low cost training by webinar on which many agree now.  All senior should be given 5 categories as they hold before.   If members will support I will be able to work on it.

 With regards                    

 

--

Naresh  Kumar 

Insurance Surveyor

Chartered Engineer

Govt. Approved Valuer (Plant & Machinery)
IBBI Regd. No. IBBI/RV/02/2019/10907
Ph. No. -9814706491, 01638-254054

Address for Correspondence - 1471/83, ganesh nagri , Jalalabad-152024 ( Punjab )

[S. Anoop Kumar]

Dear Sir,

Then how do you propose to sell training programmes to make money fooling members, and how can we forego the milch cow of collecting money for upgrading members or even for issuing the new membership to SLA holders, if you streamline the process and make it hassle free?  How can the local chapter office bearers show their importance if their counter signatures are not insisted upon and they make money for just signing the application forms.  Who will care or respect our (un)worthy CC members and office bearers if things are smooth and automatic? 

The training programme observers, the office bearers who visited the training programmes as special guests are known to have collected monies from the organisers which have been adjusted in the expenses.  

So more the harassment to the members more the importance to the elected CC members, the office bearers and their boot licking sycophants.

S. Anoop Kumar,

Sent from Samsung Galaxy Note 9

---

From: 'bipin saluja' via Indian Independent Insurance Surveyor And Loss Assessors Bengal <iiisla...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2019 8:27:56 AM
To: insurance-su...@googlegroups.com; Naresh Kumar Kukkar; insurance_surveyors; insurance-surveyors-india; indian-insurance-sur eyors; <iiisla...@googlegroups.com>; iiislagroup; punjabsurveyors; indian-surv...@googlegroups.com; Iiisla-technical-gro P.
Subject: Re: Upgradation of surveyor

 

Nareshji

Very Good Thought for the betterment of the fretinity. I always believe in Standardising all activities, channeling it to form a system in which our activities fit in. This will lead to a hasselfree life

Bipin Saluja

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

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[P.PANDIYAN]

Date: 27.06.2019 

Dear Sirs

Training programs were conducted by the organisers 

1. To impart knowledge 

2. The members need hours to get promotion 

3. To get name 

4. To make money - for the unit / chapter 

Training programs were conducted by the organisers 

1. 80 to 85 % Mainly to get marks to get promotion

2. 15 to 20 % of the participants have attended to gain knowledge 

One of the south zone members attended the programs all over india for completing required hours and spent around Rs 1,00,000/- for this.

WE do not have committee to decide the course / syllabus 

Modules to be prepared for Freshers / Experts / Trainers.

To my knowledge - nothing is moved in this direction till now,

Once it is decided then this can be taken up with the IRDAI / GIC Council    

Thanking you, 

Yours faithfully,

P.Pandiyan,
SIMAX SURVEYORS
18-Arthi Chambers
189-Anna Salai
Chennai 600 006
Phone Office - 044-2852 7766 - 98412-67064
Mobile 98410-32566

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[david gabriel macwan]

My Dear Mr.Pandiyan,
Wishes for good day.
SUB:For Training Hours:
My suggestion is as under;
The Collage of Insurance,BKC,Mumbai is organizing programmes for Surveyor also.
The cost shall be;
3 days seminar shall cost only @ Nine thousand including accommodation.
The training Hours gains shall be as 3* 8 = 24 Hours.
The faculties are very experienced.
Please advice the needy accordingly.
T/R.
David Gabriel Macwan.
Candidate for CC..All India.
InsurancSurveyor Fire,Engg and LOP.

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[ramesh paul]

Mr Kirti Kumar Parmar,

You seem to be in your Hero worship mode. Please note the subject of discussion. It is not that trainings are not held. But the point is;

If compulsory, training should be quite affordable and hassle free. It should be available at the surveyor's own city as far as practicable. For that, it should not be outsourced. We should develop our own Faculty. Courses should be relevant to the needs of different categories of surveyors. 

e.g. Institute of Chartered Accountants hold such trainings where just by paying Rs. 2-3 hundred, a CA gets 2-3 hours credit & the content is also quite useful & contemporary & there is a little  loss of working for the trainee.

Surveyors should not be exploited in the name of training & hours required for up-gradation. 

Thanks & regards.

Er. RP Gupta (Ramesh Paul Gupta)

Chartered Engineer (M.I.E.), FIII, FIIISLA, Dip. Business Mgmt. (PAU)

Ex-Council Member, IIISLA

Address:

R.P. Gupta & Company

Insurance Surveyors, Valuers & Chartered Engineers

241-A, Aggar Nagar, Ludhiana, Punjab. Postcode: 141012.

Phone: +91-98140-03397, +91-161-4629659.

On Thursday, 27 June, 2019, 02:42:31 pm IST, 'kirtikumar parmar' via [IIISLAgroup] <iiisl...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Mr DAVID

Mr. . RAHUL JADHAV HAS ALREADY STARTED AND SUCCESSFULLY CONDUCTED THE TRAINING PROGRAM'S AT COLLEGE OF INSURANCE, BKC, MUMBAI AND MANY OF OUR MEMBERS HAS PARTICIPATED IN THE SAME LAST TWO/THREE YEARS AND ALSO GOT CREDITS OF 24 HOURS. 

THE FACULTIES CHOSEN BY THEM WAS ALSO HIGHLY  QUALIFIED.

Thanks & Regards

Kirtikumar B. Parmar
Surveyor & Loss Assessor

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[P.PANDIYAN]

Dear Sir

My intention is different. 

We professional only knows the expectation and requirement

Insurer also expects some more and that also to be included.

Syllabus should be different for a surveyor entering into the filed and the surveyors who has experience of 10/ 15 years 

Many old surveyor who came to field before 2000 have got SLA by mere qualification.

The surveyors who came after that undergone (study ) training and passed exams and they are more capable in theory.

If the syllabus prepared based on the need it would be fruitful 

This has to be done first by the CC for all departments if they want to look into Training 

Thanking you, 

Yours faithfully,

P.Pandiyan,
SIMAX SURVEYORS
18-Arthi Chambers
189-Anna Salai
Chennai 600 006
Phone Office - 044-2852 7766 - 98412-67064
Mobile 98410-32566

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[rahul jadhav]

Dear R P  Guptaji  ,

 As at present there are no such modules / syllabus etc are designed by IIISLA  [though its core activity  is education ,traing and exam] , keeping  this  in  view I have started in my small tenure as CC this Joint venture with III Mumbai in 2015 and till date nine such training programs are conducted by me as course co-cordinator which gave 24 credit  hrs to IIISLA members for three days training and which were better and  cheaper  than those T P conducted in resorts  and mis managed. 

Note : pl refer trailing mail ofMr.  David in which he suggesting to conduct T P at III  and in reply to that  Mr parmar has stated that such TPs are already being conduced in III  Mumabi by me ,Now where is the  question of  'Hero Worship' arises as commented by you.

Regards

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RAHUL    JADHAV

  [  B.E. [E] , P.G.D.R.I.M., L.L.M.]
SURVEYOR & LOSS  ASSESSOR 

6  AKRUTI ARCADE , 140 SAMARTH  NAGAR ,
AURANGABAD [MS]-431001

CELL NO. 9823068548
0240 - 2343172

[ramesh paul]

Dear Mr Jaheer Ahmad Khan,

You have raised a very old question again.

In 2008-09, when IIISLA was handed down to elected representatives, AOA was interpreted by some to mean "experience to start with inception of IIISLA for the purpose of deciding the grade of Associate or Fellow" whereas IRDA while admitting the members had counted it from the issue of first licence only and thus had awarded Fellowship to many.

Now IIISLA has already  completing its 13 years and many other matters like training & seminars have been added to upgradation, the question is becoming irrelevant & the members have also got tired in the matter.

I hope it answers your question.

Thanks & regards.

Er. RP Gupta (Ramesh Paul Gupta)

Chartered Engineer (M.I.E.), FIII, FIIISLA, Dip. Business Mgmt. (PAU)

Ex-Council Member, IIISLA

Address:

R.P. Gupta & Company

Insurance Surveyors, Valuers & Chartered Engineers

241-A, Aggar Nagar, Ludhiana, Punjab. Postcode: 141012.

Phone: +91-98140-03397, +91-161-4629659.

On Thursday, 27 June, 2019, 10:30:20 am IST, Jaheer ahamed khan <jahee...@gmail.com> wrote:

Rs

Experience count either dt of joining of iiisla or experience count from dt of license issue first surveyor and loss assessor.

Kindly explain. 

Regards

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[ramesh paul]

Mr Rahul Jadhav,

Mr Parmar's mail content suggested like that only when viewed in the context of topic of discussion. Any way, I referred you as Hero only which is a reverent expression.

Basic point, here is, If compulsory, training should be quite affordable and hassle free. If your arrangements were like that, I also appreciate it.

Thanks & regards.

Er. RP Gupta

Chartered Engineer (M.I.E.), FIII, FIIISLA, Dip. Business Mgmt. (PAU)

Ex-Council Member, IIISLA

Address:

R.P. Gupta & Company

Insurance Surveyors, Valuers & Chartered Engineers

241-A, Aggar Nagar, Ludhiana, Punjab. Postcode: 141012.

Phone: +91-98140-03397, +91-161-4629659.

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[kirtikumar parmar]

Mr DAVID

Mr. . RAHUL JADHAV HAS ALREADY STARTED AND SUCCESSFULLY CONDUCTED THE TRAINING PROGRAM'S AT COLLEGE OF INSURANCE, BKC, MUMBAI AND MANY OF OUR MEMBERS HAS PARTICIPATED IN THE SAME LAST TWO/THREE YEARS AND ALSO GOT CREDITS OF 24 HOURS. 

THE FACULTIES CHOSEN BY THEM WAS ALSO HIGHLY  QUALIFIED.

Thanks & Regards

Kirtikumar B. Parmar
Surveyor & Loss Assessor

On Thursday, 27 June, 2019, 12:40:18 pm IST, 'david gabriel macwan' via Insurance Surveyors India <insurance-su...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

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[Manoj Bhargava]

Dear friends,

It is need of the hour that we should understand common members problems. On behalf of Rajasthan Chapter, I have sent many proposals to reduce cost of credit hours per member like

• Online training by Insurance Times.
• Zonal training center at Jaipur.
  
• Training at Manufacturer's Regional training centers 

Set up an example 

• Conducted 5 very low cost i.e.   AVERAGE COST OF CREDIT HOURS   INR 167/-
• 2 free workshops                      AVERAGE COST OF CREDIT HOURS  INR   0/-
• 1 3 day residential seminar         AVERAGE COST OF CREDIT HOURS  INR 360/-

IIISLA Rajasthan Chapter has lowest credit hours cost for members.

Regards

Manoj Bhargava

   9829054199

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[Mudigonda nageswara rao]

dear sir,
I believe your honest election promise, the primal need, excepted to do wonder. many surveyors with 8 to 16 years of experience are doomed with the basic level.

TO BE HONEST, MY FIELD STUDY  confirms absolutely there is any professional knowledge equal to level marks, invariably. it shows the system of upgrading or training is not serving the intended purpose. itis something like wearing a mask.

AOA RULES ARE COMFORT FOR THE EXISTING HEIGH LEVEL PROFESSIONAL TO GET UPGARDATION ONLY BY FIVE STAR TRAINING.WITH its COMFORT, 

now let us look at what are standard parameters to qualify up graduation. individuals professional knowledge and practical experience.

so training hours are counted as qualified experience. if so how about the people who had put up 10 years of experience much before iiisla arrival and who had taken training for up graduation at par with ABC categorization REGULATIONS.( not considered while framing AOA rules)

such some surveyor with vast experience is degraded by AOA RULES. I WISH U MAY NEED TO REMEMBER THIS DEPRIVED FACT.

SIMPLIFYING OF RULES HELP FOR THE GROTH OF POOR QUALITY PROFESSION.but equal opportunity will be established to become hardcore.

UNDOUBTEDLY DESERVED PROFESSIONALS MUST BE GIVEN OPPORTUNITY OF UP GRADATION WHILE IMPARTING STANDARD TRAINING FOR FURTHER PROFESSIONAL GROTH.

so-called training hours must be for strengthening professional knowledge only while years experience must be counted for up gradation measurement.

PLS BEWARE OF THIS TRUTH AND STICK TO IT TO DISLOVE. IF UR STRONG ON ONE THIS POINT UR EQUAL TO THE WHOLE PROFESSION

THANKS FOR READING.  

.

Professional growth naturally depends upon wider professional talent and knowledge.

Simplification of so called professional growth regulations  are useful to mark a paper tiger as real one.
Such  kind of rules stunt not only the hardcore , talented professionals  growth but also prepare cheaper professionals.

Biased and restrict  rules hinders professional growth leading to
intinted purpose damage altogether.

M.Nageswara Rao
Ex -ASHOk LEYLAND SERVICE ENGINEER
CELL NO.9491663955

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[rashmikant sheth]

I agree about upgradation after 8 and 16 years experience - as previously existed.

R.K.SHETH

On Friday, 28 June, 2019, 11:06:45 pm IST, Prakash Narayan Dixit <prakas...@gmail.com> wrote:

सर

आपके विचार से मै पूर्णतया सहमत हूँ पर उससे पहले सभी को काम मिलना ही चाहिए 

भवदीय

प्रकाश

Prakash N.

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[jqmalik]

Dear Colleagues,

Here in Pakistan there is no such up-gradation process ever exist. It is all about to hold how many survey licenses, experience and qualification. There are total 4 licenses i.e. Motor, Fire, Marine and MBD/Misc. There is no mandatory limit for the Insurers to pass on survey assignments to the surveyors. For example a surveyor who has qualified a fresh license of motor recently would get as much motor business as much the insurers are willing to pass on. No restriction by law. He can deal with a total loss vehicle as well as minor partial loss claims. Similar practice is for other classes. At the same time some Insurers prefer to engage experienced surveyor to handle complicated survey assignments. Sometime they engage a surveyor who hold particular qualification in that department. But it is all up to the discretion of Insurer. The surveyor who is licence holder for that particular class of survey is considered to be fully qualified to hold any type of survey in that class. Here mostly surveyors hold the licenses in all the 4 classes of survey so they are capable to handle all type of survey assignments. Very few surveyors hold engineering degrees who are utilized in complicated survey assignments of that particular engineering class. 

Thanks & regards!

QAYYUM PERVEZ MALIK 

[SV JAGGA]

Dear Surveyors,

It is rightly quoted that profession only grows when regulations are simple, however I feel that profession of Surveyor in India is over Regulated by Insurance act, Regulations of IRDA, Regulations of IIISLA and many more.

we surveyors have been squeezed between not relevant regulations and we are facing heat of it.

It is high time that we should think of relaxing the unwarranted restrictions of departments,categories and grdation.

When Insurance Industry was not growing as expected, the authorities relaxed the norms, de-tarrife the underwriting then why IRDA is 

bringing more and more reulations on Surveyors ? what is their Intents ?

If we will be imposed of such harsh regulations and authority will deal with us with Iron Hands, we will become thing of past.

If we are not allowed to grow naturally we will face the fate as similar to many species who disappead from earth.

We are on verge of disappearance so we should unite and fight for our existance.

Thanks & Regards,

S.V.Jagga,

Surveyor & Loss Assessor,

Navi Mumbai 

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[Balasubramanyam K]

Dear Brothers,

There are many hurdles in our Surveyor Profession.  The first and the foremost being the 8 years working/experience for reaching to the next level .... that is from Licentiate to Associate and from Associate to Fellow.  This regulation was made when there was no compulsory practical training of one year under a Senior Surveyor and also when the surveyor examination was not in place.  With the changed scenario, this has to be done away with as the present batch of Licentiate Surveyors have already undergone one full year training under a Senior Surveyor and acquired full and complete knowledge of  each and every survey work and then they are appearing for the Surveyor Examination and passing it based on their experience and knowledge.  Hence the old mandatory time limit of 8 years is not required as the new batch of Licentiate Surveyors have already acquired the complete knowledge of survey both on field as well as knowledge of the subject as they have undergone training for not less than 12 months and passed the Surveyor Examination and hence this 8 years time limit has be removed.

The maximum of 2 or 3 years time limit may be fair enough for the Licentiate Surveyors to go to Associate Level and for another 2 or 3 years time limit may be imposed for Associate to reach Fellow Level.  Unlike in the past, the Associate Membership or Fellow Membership is given based on the payment of certain fees without the practical training of 12 months and without appearing for Surveyor Examination.  Whereas now the system is very well regulated and it stipulates the mandatory practical training of 12 months and subject to passing of Surveyor Examination.  Hence, the maximum of 2 or 3 years time limit is sufficient enough.  If IRDA wants to text their knowledge, they may keep one more compulsory examination for moving to the next level.    

I understand that the  Working Group of IRDA is thinking in the similar lines to remove Categorization like "A" , "B" and "C" and also to remove Licentiate, Associate and Fellow levels.   IRDA should also think on the above points. This may give a fair and equal opportunity for all the surveyors based on his knowledge, efficiency, experience and expertise. IRDA should understand that why all the Senior Surveyors ( Fellows and Associates ) opposed to the IRDA's proposal of mandatory passing of Surveyor Examination.  Many of the senior surveyors felt that they may not get through the Surveyor Examination and they feared that they may lose the membership which is bread and butter to them and hence they protested to write the Surveyor Examination.  Hence IRDA should understand that the new batch of Licentiate Surveyors are in no way inferior to the Senior Surveyors.  IRDA should create a fair and equitable level ground without any discrimination for all the surveyors to practice this noble profession.

BALSUBRAMANYAM K

Mobile 9742900777

SLA - Bangalore

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/insurance_surveyors/CALVCx2b9ZMc_nsbC0j9cC0kM%2BoAF2-hZxjzK0%3D-heSeRHTqu5Q%40mail.gmail.com.

[Naresh Kumar Kukkar]

Dear Brothers, 

We can not change or press IRDAI but IIISLA can take decisions to ease out regulations imposed. Make things simple for surveyors so that surveyors can take impact of changes coming in the way.  Make a help desk for surveyors at Delhi so that surveyor licence renewal is fast. I am still waiting for my renewed licence. Second make upgradation of surveyors automatic. If surveyor is working , confirm it and upgrade category after 8 and 16 years on submission of payment.  Many senior surveyors in our area are working as surveyor from last 30 years and having Associate membership.  Lack of training facilities  comes in way and training is costly too.  Its shameful condition for all of us that many juniors are upgraded to fellow and seniors with whole lot of knowledge are associate.  All CC members should think on it. Clean and clear out own house and then we can fight with IRDAI on bigger issues ahead.          

On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 8:18 PM SV JAGGA <jag...@gmail.com> wrote:

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/insurance_surveyors/CALVCx2b9ZMc_nsbC0j9cC0kM%2BoAF2-hZxjzK0%3D-heSeRHTqu5Q%40mail.gmail.com.

[Balasubramanyam K]

Dear Brothers,

Someone was pointing that Juniors are upgrading themselves to Fellows whereas Seniors are remaining as Associates even after 30 years of experience.  No juniors have advised the seniors to remain as Associate even after 30 years of experience.  There is no point in lamenting like this.  After putting 16 years of sevice/ experience he / Licentiate is upgrading to Fellow and it is incorrect to call him as juniors.  I have seen many of my colleagues in banks... they join the banks as cashier and retire as cashier.  This is purely depending on one's mindset and nothing else. If the cashier takes little extra pain of writing the departmental examination and willing to get transfer to new place, he may retire as senior managers.  

Similarly in our profession, many seniors are not going for upgradation  to Fellow especially in Motor Surveyors, because they feel that Fellows will get the survey of high - end cars which are limited in numbers and hence they prefer to be as Licentiate or Associate as they can get more survey work pertaining to entry level and mid segment cars.

Everything depends on one's mindset and comfort zone. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/insurance_surveyors/CACzvtALpwXovx7qGo19VQoARxUP%2BfnwBO16G%2B_o1prnR3%3DvD9w%40mail.gmail.com.

[VIPIN KUMAR SHUKLA]

Dear friends,

I am very much touched issue of automatic up gradation. 

In my personal opinion, In 2002, once IRDA allotted category on experience basis, at the time of IIISLA formation,  membership issued on experiences basis than up-gradation should be also automatic on experience basis. I always opposed views of past to past leaders who held hostage members right in the name of training hours/Seminars

Since 2013, I always raised this issue on each and every forum. I remember, in 2013 Lucknow Training program, our colleague late Sri PK Agrawal ji raised this issue in front of Mr. Lalit Gupta ji, then CC member from NORTH ZONE. Since then, "Leaders of Members Voice Team" specially, Mr. Lalit Gupta Ji, could not listen the voice of members. It was only arrogancy (अंहकार))of these leaders.

Friends, I want to share all of you that I have already written three e-mails in a month to all Central Council Members for resolving the issue regarding automatic up-gradation.  

I want to put up my views,

1. Membership structure was established in 2005 at the time of formation of IIISLA. Criteria was only experience.
2. At that time, there is no restrictions on insurance companies to follow IIISLA membership.
3. At present, insurance companies using membership category in survey job deputation.
4. Discrepancies were imposed on our members in allotting categories at primary stage. 
5. Now, our many senior members having ASSOCIATE while they were working in A category allotted by IRDA and having more than 15 years experience. Similarly, many members having more than 8 years experience but still licentiate.
6. Our IIISLA failed to provide infrastructure for training to ALL MEMBERS since her inception. Pl note, first training was conducted in 2013 (after seven years of formation of IIISLA) in which training hours credited to members. How we can demand for training hours?
7. These discrepancies are injustice  towards our members hence issue needs to take up earliest/immediately.

Friends, bear with us, We will take all steps which will be in favor of our profession/our members.

I am requesting to members, please ask "Leaders of Members Voice Team" specially, Mr. Lalit Gupta Ji for their views regarding this subject.,

With regards.

Vipin Kumar Shukla,

Treasurer IIISLA,

+91-9415002675 

 

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[Naishadh Desai]

Dear all,

 

I am much surprised by the submission of Learned council member Mr. Vipin Shukla.

 

From the post of Mr. Vipin Shukla it appears that the obstacles in the process of upgradation is only “EGO” of one person and nothing else

 

But as per my knowledge and as per the information available on iiisla web site, the person is now where available to obstruct the issue

 

In this situation, I here by making a humble appeal to Mr. Shukla that if only hurdle in subject issue is some ones EGO and nothing else then discuss the issue immediately  with entire “strong” council and issue notification in this regards by todays evening.

 

Lets see how Mr. Vipin Shuka Reacts for the future of members with support of “STRONG TEAM”

 

Hope to receive notification by evening, FAILING TO WICH WE PRESUME THAT YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF IIISLA AOA AND INSTRESTED IN JUST MAKING PROPEGANDA

 

Nothing personal , but to crush the phobia and false propaganda

 

Thanks and regards

 

Naishadh Desai

Surveyor & Loss Assessor

INDIA

09824112733

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[Naresh Kumar Kukkar]

Dear Brothers, 

Two issues came up in this  discussion of automatic upgradation . 

One is, surveyors will not go for training if automatic upgradation given. So improvement of surveyors will halt.  Value of IIISLA will decrease as training institute. But I disagree. Many other institute are working parallel and members came for training in full house. Each surveyor wants to improve his capabilities so they will come in training not by compulsion but by choice. Training is lifeline of each profession and surveyors understand this fact so many will agree that this fear should not in way of automatic upgradation. 

Second point came about barrier of 8 years and 16 years . Yes fast process can be adopted but after rectification of basic one. 

new council came with majority and should work on things in their hands first and then other major points.  

With regards          

  

On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 9:49 AM J.k Sharma <dadashre...@gmail.com> wrote:

Respected Vipin Kumar Shukla Ji,

We appreciate your intentions for the welfare of the members as well as III SLA, hence we have elected you as a representative. But you are asking us to ask from those who have been rejected outrightly. 

This is your turn and proves yourself. Their shadow can not cover your time. The crucial time for surveyor regulation amendment 2019, Working Group report. NSL enhancement. Membership issues. One National Portal issue. Education criteria. Training classes and syllabus. 

The members are observing each and every activity of the vibrant team ask for any help from the community but perform in perfection.  

With Regard's

dadashree.Sharma

Karnal (HR) -132001

9354108188

Email:- dadashree.sharma @gmail.com

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[ramesh paul]

Dear Mr Vipin Shukla & All others,

I am encouraged to share my views on up-gradation by the trail mail of Mr Vipin Kumar Shukla that indicates that the current CC members are also besieged of the problem.

As a matter of fact, We have never given a serious thought to the issue of up-gradation. It could be due to many other issues confronting us since inception of IRDA that this issue remained on the sidelines as without this also, we were just carrying on the profession. 

In our profession, there is a wide variation in requisite qualifications. Take the case of Engg. stream. It is a diploma in Engg. which takes 3 years after matriculation. It is also a degree which takes 6 years after matriculation, leaving aside admission hassles. Similarly, in commerce, it is simple AIII on one side & a CA on the other.

Other than the requisite qualification, there are add-ons also like management qualifications, passing of III exams, Law etc. that do have a bearing on one's learning capacity & his quality of working, particularly in our profession where any kind of knowledge & expertise is of use. Of course, exceptions are always there on both sides.

For up-gradation, there  must be a system to give weight-age to higher qualification & add-ons which may be proportionate to at least the no. of years to acquire the additional qualification in normal course. This would also encourage our existing surveyors to enhance their qualifications & enrich the profession.

Similar weight-age can be given to CPD (Continuous Professional Development) training hours. 

Attending to survey jobs also adds to one's expertise. So some weight-age, even though very small & which could be in terms of no. of hours of CPD, can be given for no. & quantum of survey jobs attended.

In addition to above, there should a time scale as we have it currently. This should be 

purely on time-in-profession basis & should be automatic. Here also 8 years from Licentiate to Associate & another 8 years from Associate to Fellow is very long, particularly when the original licence is after due passing of exams & practical training (which must be there in any case). For CAs, it is 5 years after which they get fellowship automatically.

So there should be two systems operating simultaneously or we may call it a combination. 

Thanks & regards.

Er. RP Gupta

Chartered Engineer (M.I.E.), FIII, FIIISLA, Dip. Business Mgmt. (PAU)

Ex-Council Member, IIISLA

Address:

R.P. Gupta & Company

Insurance Surveyors, Valuers & Chartered Engineers

241-A, Aggar Nagar, Ludhiana, Punjab. Postcode: 141012.

Phone: +91-98140-03397, +91-161-4629659.

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/insurance_surveyors/1229229645.59546.1566357074187%40mail.yahoo.com

.

[Naresh Kumar Kukkar]

Dear Brothers, 

Our brother Pawan Pahwa  from Muktsar completed 32 years in profession. Mr R.K.Batish from Ludhiana  is working from past 30 year and Mr Kuldeep Singh from Chandigarh is working for more than 40 years ; all are still in associate category. They were allocated A  category but with IIISLA they are in associate .   Should they now go door to door for verification of documents and upgradation of  category? .  Or should we honor them with due respect by automatic upgradation. our CC members has to decide .   

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/insurance_surveyors/1354650249.171292.1566370814775%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Naresh Kumar Kukkar]

Dear Brothers , 

I like the conclusion done by Pandiyan ji 

In my opinion, 

Licentiate to Associate 5 Years,

Associate to Fellow 5 years, is enough

Promotion should be automatic and training should not be linked with the promotion.

Once the surveyors have experience of 10 years, they should have fellow membership.

I hope this needs to be agreed and approved by the IRDAI also.

Although we can not expect bold steps from  council like this but basic upgradation  of 8/16 can be implemented  at first step. 

We hope our CC members will work on this. 

With regards 

On Sat, Aug 24, 2019 at 8:37 PM Mudigonda nageswara rao <highflyin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear sir

WHY SHOULD THERE BE A membership level difference. once enrolled as a member by passing the exam he supposed to have professional knowledge well enough to perform with competency. (already undergone training under surveyor for practical experience)

NOW TRAINING PROGRAMS  bridge the gap between learning and effective performance that is what IRDA is hoping for or harping for.

Any whare if u look at up-gradation is proportional to the overall performance of the individual but not the training hours. the training program helps to improve the performance but it could never be an outcome-driven one for up-gradation. 

coming back to the existing award of membership level at the entry point itself extensively experienced and hardcore professional are kept in the cage of the lower level, to that effect AOA rules are framed. outcome-driven training programs are not conducted except to have an outcome of gradation. in what way it would keep the professional competency and help to upskill them.

 in this independent profession the one having learned knowledge, skill or talent can always get promoted job provided unshackling of membership level irrespective of so-called experience. surveyors profession is multi-task, training is necessary only to bridge the gap but not hand shackles.

urge everyone in the power of leadership to have wider thought to let the professional free to engage himself with the job of the unlimited and take outcome-driven training program by iiisla.

If everybody looks for up-gradation basing on experience/ training hours pls keep informed that experienced surveyors, the latecomers, level need to be upgraded. having paid huge penality fee of entry-level with vast experience the dome of licentiate never gives a feeling of at least goodness of membership.

It is difficult to see the wood from trees.

  

M.Nageswara Rao

Ex -ASHOk LEYLAND SERVICE ENGINEER

CELL NO.9491663955

On Sat, 24 Aug 2019 at 12:20, P.PANDIYAN <pandi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Date 24.08.2019

 

Dear Sirs,

 

There should be difference in the membership in the Institute.  

I believe, New Entrants (freshers) and Experienced members must have difference in membership category. 

At the same time, we should understand that surveyors who have lesser year of service are having more knowledge due to their interest and exposure they have.

Few Seniors who are in the field for long time also not upgraded in the subject, since there was no necessity for them.

 

In my state, recently the eligibility test for Teachers was conducted by the Govt and only 1 % could pass the exams. 

This shows that they have not upgraded them selves. 

 

Irrespective of age / experience the person interest and circumstances only makes the member to learn. 

We should admit that still few of our friends are not comfortable in Computers and they are depending only their assistants. 

 

 In general members will not be interested in attending the training session. Especially very seniors who are doing major surveys are not willing to attend any training programs either to share the experience or gain knowledge. Only 5 % of the seniors are exemption in this. 

 

Earlier, the CC have a made the training is made as a tool to get the promotion. 

I understand that the present team is moving forward and taking steps for the up-gradation of knowledge for our members.

Once the Training modules are finalized by the New Team and required infra is made ready, Compulsory training as in CA institute can be insisted. 

Till then the forcible training can be avoided.

 

In my opinion, 

Licentiate to Associate 5 Years,

Associate to Fellow 5 years, is enough

Promotion should be automatic and training should not be linked with the promotion.

Once the surveyors have experience of 10 years, they should have fellow membership.

I hope this needs to be agreed and approved by the IRDAI also.

 

Majority of motor surveyors are getting assignments only from PSUs and PSUs are still following Category. 

The claims are falling are under less value are much more (80%) than major claims. 

As of now many Associate members are not willing to go for promotion, since the jobs given to Fellow are less. 

Hereafter licentiate members will not opt for promotion even though they completed 15 years of service because of the reason mentioned above. 

 

For information in Chennai in A ( Fellow ) surveyor demands to de-promotion, since he could not get adequate jobs. 

Thanking you, 

Yours faithfully,

P.Pandiyan,
SIMAX SURVEYORS
18-Arthi Chambers

189-Anna Salai
Chennai 600 006
Phone Office - 044-2852 7766 - 98412-67064
Mobile 98410-32566

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[Naresh Kumar Kukkar]

I request council to work on it . First start from 8/16 then go for improvement by discussion as done in this form. But working on it is required, 

With regards 

On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 12:26 PM 'bipin saluja' via Insurance Surveyors India <insurance-su...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Since we have only three slabs and three years of experience is too less, I feel it should be  6 years and 12 years.

and also parallel fast track may be provided with examinations system.

BIPIN SALUJA

On Thursday, 29 August, 2019, 7:55:55 am IST, Mudigonda nageswara rao <highflyin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear sir,

WHILE concurring with ur conclusive thought, to start with, appeal to turn it out to materialize by taking it up with governing body till the  end  

M.Nageswara Rao

Ex -Ashok LEYLAND SERVICE ENGINEER

CELL NO.9491663955

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[Naresh Kumar Kukkar]

Dear Brother, 

Council has to take bold decisions to survive community in this phase.

We have faith on them. 

With regards   

On Sun, Sep 1, 2019 at 10:51 AM rajiv budhiraja <rajiv_b...@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

Dear All,

Awareness of AOA is mandatory .

Without knowing the facts, don't  comment.

2013 regulations confirm minimum hrs reqd and to attend the seminars.( incorporation of the same by CC).

No by IRDA before the regulation.

CC to bring amendment which is very much in their jurisdiction. 

After that, licences issued before  irda should be automatically upgraded.

Licences post 2001( irda existance), upgradation to be as prescribed by AOA.

Regards 

Rajiv Budhiraja 

Delhi 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Sun, 1 Sep 2019 at 10:14, Naresh Kumar Kukkar

<nku...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[B. S. Agarwal]

Sir 

There are various mails for up gradation 

I am in the profession from 1978 . 

What is the scope of gradation

B S Agarwal  SLA 2926 from 26.11.1978 

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[Chand Bhatia]

Lot is being talked about upgradation. My I know the purpose of it. If the financial limit of survey is a attraction, then where is any financial limit. Every company has his own limit. Secondly who is bothered for these limits. Insurance companies allot the survey according to their liking of a surveyor and even in violation of their own rules. 

On the contrary IIISLA leadership has found a way to harras the members and force them with any kind of rule.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/insurance_surveyors/CA%2B3Yi9cz0vYve1Gqnt2ojaMGp4w-KD9rAtcbT32ivRJ29p3OHQ%40mail.gmail.com.

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c k bhatia
09810231248

[SV JAGGA]

I agree with Bhatia Sir, If IRDA has abolished Categorisation with ruling of court then why our Institure is following the same and discriminating her own members

Whether the Insurers are following financial limits set by regulations for appointment of Inhouse Surveyors ?

Thanks & Regards,

S.V.Jagga,

Surveyor & Loss Assessor,

Navi Mumbai Office :

"ANUBHUTI" Plot No. 19, Sector 15,

Near Proviso Tower, Koparkhairane, 

NAVI MUMBAI 400709.

Phone Off.  9167650335

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[Surv. Shubham Sharma]

An important question that require urgent attention asked by John V jagga sir..Ans. is definitely a big Nooo but what are the steps taken by our association to abolish the same

Whether the Insurers are following financial limits set by regulations for appointment of Inhouse Surveyors ?

Regards
Shubham Sharma
SLA-121186
10-J-13, 14 R. C. Vyas Colony,
Bhilwara (Rajasthan) -311001.
+91-89491-32477
+91-75978-59076

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