Re: Fire Claim for Damage to D G Set under fire insurance policy
Prakash Shrivastava
A Diesel Generator set having capacity of 250 KVA is insured under standard fire insurance policy.
due to power failure It has been started to generate the power. Just after 5 minutes of starting the D. G. set it caught the fire and flame started coming out from the rear side of the D. G. Set’s enclosure.
The fire was extinguished with the help of fire extinguishers in 15-20 minutes. After extinguishing the fire it was found that the engine block of the D. G. set had holed in way of no.3 cylinder and connecting rod had propped out from the engine block.
In the opinion of Insurance surveyors the engine block was damaged due to failure of crank shaft / connecting rod which causes excessive heating and due to overheating engine block was burst / broke and fire was spread around the engine.
Where as insured informed that engine oil was leaking from flexible pipe coming from turbo charger of the engine to the body of engine. The leakage of engine oil at high temp might have triggered and lead to the fire accident, which engulfed the engine in the fire and resulted bursting of engine block.
According to surveyor the loss is not payable under fire insurance policy as damage to D G Set is due to mechanical breakdown.
Where as insured is insisting that loss is occurred due to fire due to leakage of oil and payable under the Standard fire policy.
Please give your detailed opinion in view
of above loss. Whether the loss is payable under std fire insurance policy or not.
Thanks & regars,
Prakash N.Shrivastava
Insurance Surveyor
vijayparsa Rajeswar Rao
Dear Prakashji,
It is normal DG sets they do not take the MBD policy and wish to get claim from the fire policy. The insured seems to be very intelligent. What happened is the connecting rod failed and the block gave away. They have noticed the same and created fire scene and they are planning to establish the claim in fire policy. It is very tricky situation. How is the insurer, if they can be confided we can confide with them. The matter needs to be investigated and insured is required to be exhausted.
WHEN IN DOUBT EVEN A TRACE OF SUSPICION IN YOUR MIND THAT THERE COULD BE SOME MISTAKE OR SLIP OR FOUL PLAY
1. Ask more and more questions on all related and some times unconnected topics.
2. Talk to more and more personnel belonging to the insured
3. Talk to neighbours and people in the vicinity
4. Look for grape-vine stories which may some times give you a lead
5. Go on surprise visits to the insured place and verify matters
6. Keep on corresponding at regular intervals
7. Insist on internal enquiry and punishment to the negligent persons – some times when such action is taken the scapegoat person will surely open his mouth and will spill the beans
8. Look all around with more caution and critical eye and eventually truth will surely comes out
9. These are only few known to me and you can utilise your common sense and design any method to break the case. It is always helpful and advisable to keep the insurer informed and keeping matters transparent to the insurer.
10. But never take pride or knighthood to you when dealing with such matters but take them as routine duty and responsibility only. If not one may land up in developing negative tendency or over confidence.
If insurer is with the insured you have problem. They want you to give the claim but no one will be there to support you if audit objection comes. I have rarely seen such technically competent auditors in the insurance company. Take a chance and give the claim. If Miya Beebi Raazi Kya Karega kaazi
If insurance Company is with you I can help you. By fire blocks do not burst like that. If Connecting rod broke the block there can not be fire technically. Go on writing letters and tire out the insured till he abandons the claim. Verbally tell him that you will never pay the claim in this life. But do not put it on paper. Go on asking questions one after the other. Do not show your cards to him and get replies and ask questions on their replies. Once tire out they loose patience and abandon the claim. This will be game of patience.
If the claim is your I can help continuously & confidentially in the matter.
with kind regards
P V RAJESWAR RAO
1-3-183/40/103, Flat No. 101, SST Karthik Residency,
SBI Colony, Gandhi Nagar,
Hyderabad - 500 080
vijay...@hotmail.com
vijay...@yahoo.com
From: Prakash Shrivastava <shrivastav...@gmail.com>
To: insurance...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, 20 December, 2009 6:32:51 PM
Subject: {Surveyors:3323} Re: Fire Claim for Damage to D G Set under fire insurance policy
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shailesh shah
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Shailesh B. Shah
Insurance Surveyor / Loss Assessor
Vadodara Cell- 9824021192
www.insurance-surveyors.com
ASAR
ASAR
NARESH K TAGOTRA
Well as per the description given it is machinery breakdown and most
probable cause is failure of connecting rod causing brakage of walls.
Had some photographs been attached more authantic comments/ views
would have been made available.
Anyway under fire policy also the claim will not be admissible as same
falls under exclusions of the policy. Thereby even the claimed cause
of loss by the insured is not going to effect the final outcome of the
loss suffered. The claim will be maintainable only under MBD policy.
REGARDS
NARESH K TAGOTRA
www.isalvageacution.com
On Dec 21, 8:27 pm, ASAR <asantony...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In addition to the matter explained earlier, if necessary, you can get the
> assistance of Mr.Sigamani at Coimbatore who have plenty of knowledge
> onDiesel Engines. If necessary, you may write to me or call over my cell.
> ASAR
> 94431 35563
> 2009/12/21 ASAR <asantony...@gmail.com>
>
>
>
> > Dear Sir,
>
> > From your narration of the incident, the loss was due to
> > mechanical breakdown. It is not possible for cracking of the cylinder block
> > in one cylinder and pop out of the connecting rod. Consider the temperature
> > within the closed chamber while firing. it is not possible for such a high
> > temperature when there was fire outside the block. It has to be noted that
> > crack may develop when water is sprayed over the hot block. But there was
> > no possibility for such a severe crack to the extent of pop-out of
> > connnecting rod. With the information available, the case can not be
> > considered under Fire Policy. However, I can give more opinion if you can
> > send the photographs.
> > From the mail, one thing I can not understand. Please
> > inform your purpose. You says that the surveyors opined ------. From your
> > question, you are not the surveyor who handles the loss. I hope you want to
> > help the insured to get the claim or you want to know the fact on accademic
> > interest. Please clarify your stand.
> > ASAR
>
> > 2009/12/21 shailesh shah <shaileshbs...@gmail.com>
>
> > Look out for an expert in your vicinity to support your standpoint.
>
> >> > vijaypa...@hotmail.com
> >> > vijaypa...@yahoo.com
>
> >> > ________________________________
> >> > From: Prakash Shrivastava <shrivastava.praka...@gmail.com>
> >> > insurance_surve...@googlegroups.com<insurance_surveyors%2Bunsubsc...@googlegroups.com>
> >> .
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> >> --
> >> Shailesh B. Shah
> >> Insurance Surveyor / Loss Assessor
> >> Vadodara Cell- 9824021192
> >>www.insurance-surveyors.com
>
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> >>http://groups.google.com/group/insurance_surveyors?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
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> - Show quoted text -
Surinder Mohan Verma
CERTAINLY THE CLAIM IS ADMISSIBLE UNDER STANDARD FIRE POLICY
SURRINDER MOHAN VERMA
ABOHAR
094170 79248
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 18:32:51 +0530
Subject: {Surveyors:3323} Re: Fire Claim for Damage to D G Set under fire insurance policy
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Denesh Saxena
Rajesh Mer
Dear
According to me the loss is not payable becasue
1. mechanical loss is not payable
2. if the loss is due to fire, the origin of fire is not payable under fire policy
Thanks & Regards Rajesh Kumar Mer R K Mer & Associates WZ-177, Ground Floor, Lajwanti Garden, New Delhi - 110 046 Phone: 011 - 2852 4732 Fax : 011 - 2852 3822 Mobile: 0 98111 67552 E-mail: rk_...@yahoo.com Alterenate: rk...@rediffmail.com Branches: Chandigarh, Jaipur, Agra, Dehradun & Meerut --- On Sun, 20/12/09, Prakash Shrivastava <shrivastav...@gmail.com> wrote: |
|
|
|
P. RAJU
The loss is payable under SFSP policy
SFSP policy covers all type of fire except specifically excluded in the preamble and exclusions.
Origination of fire also covered for all items except for the items/situation mentioned as per General exclusions No.7
Regards
P.Raju
Engineer / surveyor
Mobile:9843098580
ER Gnanakumar
the claim is not payable under FIRE and Special perils policy acording
exclusions damages to the elecetrical apparatures , fixers , fitting
etc ....... etc is not under scope of policy, how ever if the fire
originates from the engine and damaged sorrounding property (insured)
it is payable ie orgin of fire is to be excluded. .
With regards
A. Gnanakumar
Surveyor
On Dec 22, 10:47 pm, "P. RAJU" <raju1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear friends,
>
> The loss is payable under SFSP policy
>
> SFSP policy covers all type of fire except specifically excluded in the
> preamble and exclusions.
>
> Origination of fire also covered for all items except for the
> items/situation mentioned as per General exclusions No.7
>
> Regards
>
> P.Raju
> Engineer / surveyor
> Mobile:9843098580On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Rajesh Mer <rk_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Dear
>
> > According to me the loss is not payable becasue
>
> > 1. mechanical loss is not payable
> > 2. if the loss is due to fire, the origin of fire is not payable under
> > fire policy
>
> > Thanks & Regards
>
> > Rajesh Kumar Mer
> > R K Mer & Associates
> > WZ-177, Ground Floor,
> > Lajwanti Garden,
> > New Delhi - 110 046
> > Phone: 011 - 2852 4732
> > Fax : 011 - 2852 3822
> > Mobile: 0 98111 67552
> > E-mail: rk_...@yahoo.com
> > Alterenate: rk...@rediffmail.com
> > Branches: Chandigarh, Jaipur, Agra, Dehradun & Meerut
>
> > --- On *Sun, 20/12/09, Prakash Shrivastava <shrivastava.praka...@gmail.com
> > >* wrote:
> > insurance_surve...@googlegroups.com<insurance_surveyors%2Bunsubsc...@googlegroups.com>
> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/insurance_surveyors?hl=en.
>
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P. RAJU
Is the Engine is an electrical apparatures/fixtures/ fitting or not ?
Is the fire is originated in the electrical apparatus?
For this case the fire was not originated due to leakage of
electricity,over running,short circuit (such kind of fire only
excluded as per general exclusions No.7)
and hence the loss is very well admissible under SFSP policy
Regards
P.Raju
Mobile:9843098580
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chandra dasaraju
The nature and extent of damage here is the engine block developed
hole and a connecting rod protruded. Then the cause of such damage is
given as fire due to leakage of engine oil. Even if such leakage
results in fire, one has to visualise whether such bursting of crank
case / engine block would be possible. The nature of damage due to
such fire, even of high intesnity and for prolonged time, may make the
body of the engine passive and develpment of cracks.
On the other hand, the breaking of engine block and protruding of
conecting rod indicates that the con rod piston assembly must have
disjointed and hit the block resulting in such hole. This obviously
is mechanical breakdown due to stuck and disjointed con rod piston
assembly, and admissibility of the claim under SFSP policy is not
correct, in my opinion. I quote from my survey report an incident of
similar case;
-Quote
The insured explained me that fire occurred in the inside of
compressor due to friction and fumes emanated and were noticed on the
surface of the compressor. Since the surroundings contain methanol
vapours there was imminent danger and if fire spread then the property
damage would have been much higher. The staff prevented the fire
spreading, by applying oil soaked rags on the surface of the
compressor, and thus the fire was limited to the compressor itself.
He contended that the damage to the compressor is due to fire.
I have requested the insured to exactly show me the damage that is
caused by fire, since there was no evidence of such damage on the face
of it, as observed during my inspection on 04/08/2009. The insured
has dismantled the compressor and called me for detailed examination.
I have visited the plant again on 09/08/2009, and inspected the
dismantled components of compressor. The loss is due to break down of
inner components like connecting rod and piston, which made a hole in
the crank case.
The cause of damage is due to breakdown of inner components of the
compressor.
-Unquote
As we all know, the stated cause of damage should corroborate the
nature and extent of damage, lest the claim gets repudiated.
Thanks & Regards,
dcs raju, hyderabad.
+91-99490-95995.
On Dec 24, 12:20 pm, "P. RAJU" <raju1...@gmail.com> wrote: