2nd surveyor
s_vashisht .
In what circumstances 2nd surveyor can be deputed & who
is authorize to depute 2nd surveyor for re-assessment.
--
Regards
S.vashisht
9814024844
Naresh Kukkar
insured wants it. Or If the assessment is under dispute. But if
first surveyor gives consent second surveyor can be deputed.
dmpanditrao
2. if any of the parties Insured/Repairer/Insurers find the surveyor's
assessment unreasonable.
The Insurer has the authority to depute 2nd surveyor.
In case the deputation of 2nd surveyor is on request/complaint from the
Insured the Insured has to accept assessment of 2nd surveyor even if it is
less than that of the 1st surveyor.
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Sumant Sud
I am reproducing below the article regarding 2nd Surveyor I had written in Insurance Times
many years ago
It may shed light to your question
Appointment of a Second Surveyor - a view point by Sumant Sud
The Power to appointment of a Surveyor stems from Section 64UM(2) of the Insurance Act, 1938 as amended by The Insurance (Amendment) Act, 2002. The relevant portion of Section 64UM(2) is reproduced as under:
PROVIDED that nothing in this sub-section shall be deemed to take away or abridge the right of the insurer to pay or settle any claim at any amount different from the amount assessed by the approved surveyor or loss assessor." |
The "Authority", (IRDA), also has the power to appoint an independent another surveyor as per Section 64UM(3) that reads as under:
|
"The 'Authority' may, at any time, in respect of any claim of the nature referred to in sub-section (2), call for an independent report from any other approved surveyor or loss assessor specified by him and such surveyor or loss assessor shall furnish such report to the Authority within such time as may be specified by the Authority or if no time limit has been specified by him within a reasonable time and the cost of, or incidental to such report shall be borne by the insurer." |
Looking to the above, I opine that the Clause reading that `nothing in this sub-section shall be deemed to take away or abridge the right of the insurer to pay or settle any claim at any amount different from the amount assessed by the approved surveyor or loss assessor' allows the Insurer to obtain an opinion of another surveyor or an expert in case they have any specific doubt or reservation or notice any discrepancy about the assessment of the Claim by the First surveyor. The aspects which must be taken care of are:
1) That the reason for referring the matter to another Surveyor for opinion must be recorded in details before the appointment.
Contd..P/2
Page 2
2) The report of next Surveyor, who was requested for his opinion, must be built upon the first report and take it to a higher height of true indemnity duly supported by fact figures and reasons without in any way being an exercise in futile opinions. Therefore the next surveyor must clearly state in his report the concrete evidence, data &/or reasons for differing from the first surveyor.
On the other hand, due to the clause 64UM(3) in the Act, the IRDA has an independent option to appoint a second approved surveyor & loss assessor. This clause gives the IRDA the right to intervene in case it so desires for any reason thereof. And the IRDA at its option can force the Insurers to abide by the assessment of the Surveyor and loss Assessor appointed by them.
The National Consumer Disputes Redressal Commission, New Delhi (herein-after referred to as NCDRC) has given a Judgement concerning the appointment of Second surveyor which was reported widely in the National press. This Judgement has direct bearing on the question of appointment of second surveyor. The same is discussed as under.
Judgement delivered by National Consumer disputes Redressal Commission, New Delhi
The NCDRC under the Presidentship of Hon'ble Mr. Justice D.P. Wadhwa in a Judgement of 8th February, 2002 in a Revision Petition No. 488 of 1998 -Case titled as `National Insurance Company Limited versus New Patiala Trading Company'- has pronounced as under by upholding the judgement of the State Commission:
"Scheme of Section 64UM, particularly of sub-section (3) and (4) would show that insurer cannot appoint second surveyor just a matter of course. If the report of the surveyor or loss assessor is not acceptable to the insurer it must specify reasons but it is not free to appoint second surveyor. Appointment by the insurer of a second surveyor itself would be a reflection on the conduct of the first surveyor. Surveyor or loss assessor is duty bound to give a correct report. If the insurer-Insurance Co. finds that surveyor or loss assessor has not considered certain relevant points or has considered irrelevant points or for any other account it has reservation about the report, it can certainly require the surveyor or loss assessor to give his views and then come to its own conclusion, but insurer cannot certainly appoint a second surveyor-cum-loss assessor to counter or even contradict or rebut the report of the first surveyor.
It is a statute which prescribes licensed surveyor or loss assessor who is to be appointed to assess the loss where it is equal to or more than Rs. 20,000/-. Prima-facie, therefore, credence will have to be given to the report of such approved surveyor or loss assessor. There is nothing on record in the present case to show that report submitted by the first surveyor Shekhar & Co., was in any way faulty. In our view, therefore, State Commission was right in acting upon the report of the first surveyor and allowing the complaint of the respondent-complainant.
We, therefore, do no find any merit in this appeal and we dismiss it with cost which we assess at Rs. 2,000."
The following is observed from the above Judgement of Hon'ble Mr. Justice D.P. Wadhwa, President of NCDRC that:
Contd..P/3
Page 3
a) That the Forum has categorically rejected the appointment of the second surveyor by the insurer in just a matter of course.
b) That the insurer cannot certainly appoint a second surveyor cum loss assessor to counter, or contradict or rebut the report of the first Surveyor.
c) That in the last lines of the Judgement, the Hon'ble Forum has specifically recorded that in the particular case there is nothing in record to show that the report of the first surveyor was in any way faulty.
From the above, in my opinion, it is clear that the judgement passed by the Judge is an Orbiter dictum and not a Ratio Decidendi as the last paragraph of the judgement clearly states that in the above particular case there was nothing on record to show any fault in the report of the first surveyor, hence as per statue credence with have to be given to the report of the first surveyor.
The discussion of the matter further leads to the thought that if in the first survey report there are material discrepancies or Non application of mind by the first surveyor or of non application of Technical information/data relevant of the loss, then the insurer can certainly call for the opinion from an expert or may be of another surveyor to add to or throw additional light or refine the report of the first surveyor so as to bring the assessment closer to the true facts and within the policy terms and conditions. However, the insurers cannot use the services of second surveyor just to counter, contradict or rebut the report of the first surveyor in a matter of course. Hence the insurers would be within the ambit of the statue, if they duly record the specific reasons for referring the matter to another surveyor for his opinion to bring the true facts and conditions to light because the competent Authority of the Insurers' company is not expected to be technical persons at all stages.
Sumant Sud
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Naresh Kukkar
Thanks a lot for giving all the details about it. These lines are
important
the first survey report there are material discrepancies or Non
application of mind by the first surveyor or of non application of
Technical information/data relevant of the loss, then the insurer can
certainly call for the opinion from an expert or may be of another
surveyor to add to or throw additional light or refine the report of
the first surveyor so as to bring the assessment closer to the true
facts and within the policy terms and conditions. However, the
insurers cannot use the services of second surveyor just to counter,
contradict or rebut the report of the first surveyor in a matter of
course. Hence the insurers would be within the ambit of the statue, if
they duly record the specific reasons for referring the matter to
another surveyor for his opinion to bring the true facts and
conditions to light because the competent Authority of the Insurers'
company is not expected to
be technical persons at all stages.
surveyor be asked about the facts of omission of any controversy if
any in the report. If second surveyor is appointed without any reason
what should be done by first surveyor?
Naresh Kukkar
Denesh Saxena
amar kant jha
From: Denesh Saxena <dk.crea...@gmail.com>
To: insurance...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 10:31 PM
Subject: Re: {Surveyors:9253} Re: 2nd surveyor
Denesh Saxena
amar kant jha
Subject: Re: {Surveyors:9283} Re: 2nd surveyor
shailesh shah
- How to know who is fit for doing what?
- Who should decide whom to appoint for survey?
- How to track performance of each surveyor in the field?
- What kind of education is required by the surveyors today?
- We need curriculum that will be in tune with surveyors present capacity to digest knowledge and also matching with the needs of speedy progress that insurers want today through online settlement of claims? Who will design this curriculum and at what cost to surveyors?
This message is from
Shailesh B. Shah
Insurance Surveyor / Loss Assessor
Vadodara Cell- 9824021192
Denesh Saxena
Denesh Saxena
chand Bhatia
think Mr Jha may give little more on level of IQ also and little about
communicating skill to be a good surveyor. But I disagree that every
surveyor can do a job by this much. For example what does he say on
survey of a Buffalo by an engineer (if further classified like
computer, chemical or aeronautic or marine engineer) and chartered
Accountant. Mr. jha is probably devaluating the profession by what
ever he has said in his mail
C K BHATIA
On Aug 9, 10:11 am, amar kant jha <amarkant...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear Sri Saxena,
> It is all opinion,A surveyor with genuine and required Qualification must have good IQ to sort out any problem by his own analysis.He should be able to find solution with his resources, like- Book, Friends, Experts and his own ability.
> In Insurance Sector- There is no extra ordinary problem in Insurance Sector,No research work is required, guide lines and system are there to sort out problem.
> Amar Kant Jha
> 0933-47-84485
> PATNA
> 9.08.11
>
> ________________________________
> Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2011 9:48 AM
> Subject: Re: {Surveyors:9283} Re: 2nd surveyor
>
> Dear Sri Jha & All,
>
> I do not agree that all the surveyors can do all the jobs in all the departments. It is qualification, experience & talent which
> Make a person suitable to handle a particular job. A person who does not have any knowledge of accountancy can not handle
> the surveyes where the verification & checking of balancesheets are required. Similarly the survey of complicated machines
> can not be done successfully until & unless the surveyor concerned is unable to understand the same.
>
> Deputation of such a surveyor who can not handle a particular type of job is a curse for the industry because it not only spoils
> the reputation of the surveyors & survey job but also put into trouble the insured as well as finally the insurers too.
>
> One must understand the significance.
>
> Regards
>
> D.K. SAXENA
>
>
> Dear Friend,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Each and Every Surveyor is competent enough to complete any kind of SURVEY assignment. Person who thinks that 2nd Surveyor is required it means that Surveyor concerned failed to satisfy the Client, It is not that he (Surveyor) is not competent.
> >To satisfy the Client- needs skill of negotiation, Being a human being First Surveyor may not tackle the client. IT is c0mplete HUMAN Behavior Science.
> >Amar Kant Jha
> >0933-47-84485
> >PATNA
> >5.08.2011
>
> >________________________________
>
> read more »
dmpanditrao
amar kant jha
Amar Kant Jha
0933-47-84485
PATNA
From: chand Bhatia <bhatia...@gmail.com>
To: Insurance surveyors <insurance...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: {Surveyors:9293} Re: 2nd surveyor
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Sanjay Shaw
I am really getting confused with these all vague thought of senior
junior base of Knowledge. But we are very sure that our jurisdiction
of knowledge application has been totally dragged out by the
financially propelled system.
I am also very much confused to think over the policy terms &
condition and Legal Liability which are total liability of the
Insurer’s only and for that we have nothing to do from our side as we
are issuing our assessed opinion report in a manner of without
pre-judice but we have to represent our report with bifurcation of the
assessments with respect to the all involved peril type so that
Insurer can swap out that part of assessment of all / each / every as
per their need of loss adjustment and taking the responsibility of the
legal Liability and final settled disbursement amount.
I mean to say, A surveyor should have to submit multiple view of the
assessment amount with different option of the phase of repairing /
availability of the skill labor – tools – amenities when he is not
getting the specific source of the data of computation from the
subjected concern i.e. repairer / manufacturer / Road Transport
authority / Legal witness Authority / e t c and I had done it past due
to this no insurer are asking me report immediately as I do not
hesitate to submit assessment of multiple assessment report due to
lack of such data.
We do not know as how the TAC had formulated the spare with category
of Fiber / rubber / plastic / e t c where as the principle owner of
the spare parts are the automobile manufacturer. We are defining all
for what?
1. To get Job from Insurer we are defining the proprietary spare item
as Fiber / plastic / rubber.
2. To get job from Insurer we are defining the price list of spare
parts without reference bulletin support of the manufacturer
3. To get Job from Insurer we are furnishing our assessment with
acceptance of financially Bargained volatile environment.
4. And what not we are doing for the sake to get job by hook and crook.
And these are the only reason that requirement of the surveyor have
been declined day by day.
Due to such Hidden factor of the procurement of job of the surveyor
from the office of insurer are not at all transparent which can be
expected only if Insurer will be compelled to call for open Tender of
the claim management with highlighting the required degree of the TAT
services.
Regarding the qualification it is well preferable for the Automobile
Engineer for the Motor Claim assignment but should be after proper
training of the tools of assessment so that after training surveyor
ought not to be cached by such terms as mentioned herein above. But
major parts of the Loss assessment of automobiles claims is the
portfolio of the cost management / work motion study / chemical
process of VOC / accountings which can be accomplished from the IQ
label of the any Engineers and even a cost account also.
In simple way we can say, we have misused our base knowledge as same
were acquired by the Financial ads of the GOI from the engineering
Colleges due to that the matter of Insurance technical perils have
been questioned now with the financial bargain of insecurities which
is susceptible of scam and hike of the Insurance premium will cause
the victimization of the Indian Ordinary citizen from the amenities of
the Insurance security tools.
On every time we are observing the non solution steps of the IIISLA
and no one are appearing to come forward for true solution due to lot
of hidden factors as we are persisting in our daily life of loss
assessment and feelings of insecurities with among us.
And we should appreciate the questionnaires raised by Mr. Shailesh B
Shah whose replies have been given here under for the full and final
stability.
How to know who is fit for doing what? : IIISLA should have to
develop for the community server tools at www.iiisla.org with profile
of all members & Categorized surveyor which can be edited by
respective member & Categorized surveyor within some permissible limit
and Application of CPD as Draft given by IRDA ought to be merged
through the auto generated technical / seminar committee of the
IIISLA.
• Who should decide whom to appoint for survey? As mentioned here in above.
• How to track performance of each surveyor in the field? IIISLA
should maintain the online data entry tools from client (surveyor
side) to comply the IRDA Form XII and IRDA FORM III and other some
other modified format.
• What kind of education is required by the surveyors today? IIISLA
educational / technical body should maintain regular Collaboration
with the different professional/academic/R & D Institute/ organization
to host regular seminar / workshop so that members can earn different
CPD with different sort of knowledge in a requisite manner of the
technical assessment.
• We need curriculum that will be in tune with surveyor’s present
capacity to digest knowledge and also matching with the needs of
speedy progress that insurers want today through online settlement of
claims? Who will design this curriculum and at what cost to surveyors?
IT IS TOTAL TECHNICAL METTER OF LOSS ADJUSTMENT COST MANAGEMENT THAT
CAN BE ONLY AVAIL BY THE GROUP OF SURVEYOR WITH A TRANSPARENT
ENVIRONMENT BUT THAT SHOULD BE UNDER THE BOUNDARY OF THE IIISLA
REGULATION.
WE HOPE WE CAN GET MORE OPINION TO CONCLUDE THE MATTER OR WAIT FOR THE
GLOBAL CORPORATE TO MEET THE PURPOSE OF THE INDIAN ECONOMY AS
INSURANCE AMINITIES IS ACTING AS ONE OF THE INSTRUMENTAL KEY TOOLS OF
SUCH DEVELOPMENT
WITH REGARDS
SANJAY SHAW
9831794888
> a.. How to know who is fit for doing what?
> b.. Who should decide whom to appoint for survey?
> c.. How to track performance of each surveyor in the field?
> d.. What kind of education is required by the surveyors today?
> e.. We need curriculum that will be in tune with surveyors present
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------