Claim Under Fire Policy - Operative Peril STFI - Views Please.
Purushottam Rathi
An insured suffered a loss in stock kept/stored in OPEN; which is covered under FIRE POLICY wherein STFI is covered peril.
During last week of May there was untimely rain with hail-fallen for a short time. Rain continued for 2 to 3 hours. Rain was associated with strong wind.
This rain fall was in a villages covering 10 Sq.KM. area. There is no observatory around.Collectorate took note of it and in panchanama mentioned it as "BEMOUSAMI BARSAT AUR OLLA VRISHTI - UNTIMELY RAIN ASSOCIATED WITH HAIL".
Whether loss is payable?
Your views please.
Thanks.
SLA P.K.Rathi
 |
ps1...@gmail.com
We have to identify the damages due to hail storm & that is payable and not payable damages affected due to rain.
Regards,
Paresh Shah
9825060570
B.E.,Chartered Er.,SLA
AhmedabAd
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Insurance surveyors" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to insurance_surve...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to insurance...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/insurance_surveyors.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Prem Chandra Shukla
Regards,
P.C. Shukla| Surveyors & Loss Adjusters|Surveyors India
| 117/H-1/125| Pandu Nagar| Kanpur| Uttar Pradesh - 208005| INDIA
| Tel: +91-512-2216416 | Tel/Fax: +91-512-2231409| Mobile: +91 9415044156
smra...@hotmail.com
|
Dear Shukla Saheb,
I agree but in case of heavy wind say more than 50 kilometers but stock lying in open, not damaged by wind, is damaged only by rainwater, then claim is admissible or not?
Thanks & regards.
Shailesh M Ramani
Fellow Member IIISLA F/W/00415
Surveyor & Loss Assessor
[Fire, Engineering & Marine cargo]
9825075737 & 9428265962. 1/17 Star Shopping Centre 20 New Jagnath Plot Rajkot 360 001. Ahmedabad Office:
Umang S Ramani
-------Original Message------- |
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Insurance Adjusters" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to insurance-adjus...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to insurance...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/insurance-adjusters. |
ps1...@gmail.com
Raining is not covered by any policy.
With regards,
Paresh Shah
09825060570
Ahmedabad
Shailesh Shah
I dont know how different insurers think of such calamities apart from surveyors but in some parts of the world atmospheric disturbances too are considered as peril and such wording included in policies.
But cant we look at this incidence of rain as unbroken chain of events and treat proximate loss as storm ? Views of person whose query is this are important here. Rest all are guidance only.
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Insurance surveyors" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to insurance_surve...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to insurance...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/insurance_surveyors.
BADRI NARAYANAN
FIRE POLICY DOES NOT COVER ANY PROPERTY DAMAGE DUE TO RAIN WATER.
C.R.BADRINARAYANAN
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2013 20:19:12 +0300
Subject: Re: {Surveyors:16954} Re: [Adjusters:13140] Re: Claim Under Fire Policy - Operative Peril STFI - Views Please.
From: shaile...@gmail.com
To: insurance...@googlegroups.com
P.C.Shukla
Dear Mr.Ramani,
Your question reminds me of a old song of Sasural film “ Ek sawal mai karoon Ek sawal tum karo; har sawal ka jawab hi sawal ho’
Any way I shall try to reply your very good question.
Your question is that if standalone rain damage does fall in the category of expected peril then only rain damage as a consequence of ‘Storm” is covered or excluded ?.
First of all let me tell you that it will never happen and if atoll happened then claim is payable but why?
To understand this we have to go to the basics of “proximate cause”
Storm are created when a center of low pressure develop with a system of high pressure surrounding it. This creates strong wind and clouds. Therefore, heavy rains occurs hand-in-hand with storm. This entire action is one composite peril i.e storm. So you cannot separate strong wind and rains separately.
In your case entire peril of “Storm’ had not been consumed and was continuing. In the form of rain. In fact the nature of subject matter was such that it was not affected by wind element of “Storm”. But mind you it is not the property of subject matter which decides the peril in operation but the cause and effect thereof.
To summaries, the proximate cause is not the first cause, nor the last. To be proximate, a cause must be immediate which does not mean the cause nearest in point but the cause efficient and dominant, which is “storm” in your case. So the claim in my personal opinion is payable.
To post to this group, send an email to insurance...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/insurance-adjusters.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Denesh Saxena
The detailed loss is covered under the circumstances of loss as
initially mentioned by you i..e. untimely rains associated with strong
winds and followed with hails falling.
It does not matter that the stocks were damaged due to rains or winds
because the overall reported circumstances of loss are to be defined
as the operating of storm peril (STFI / AOG Perils).
Further please note that you never have to mention the wind velocity
if the report of some observatory is not available with weather
records of that date / time.
It is enough to mention that rains associated with strong winds occurred.
Further it is also not necessary that in the locality other similar
losses have taken place or not. But it is necessary to obtain a
certificate about the weather either from some observatory or civil
administration. In some case even the local news paper reports becomes
enough in this regard but in my view the news paper report should be
taken into consideration even & if the weather report certificate
issued by some civil administration authority. In case of weather
report issued by some observatory is available on records it is enough
to establish the storm if the quite high velocity of winds are
recorded in comparison to the normal weather i.e. a few hours before
or after the said time of loss.
Hope you would understand the things particularly the forming of
'Storm Peril'. Further it is you who have to feel & decide that the
winds were so strong as could be defined as strong and could cause the
loss or not because the rain fall is never a covered peril under the
STFI / AOG perils.
WHAT IS SPECIAL WITH OUR JOB THAT WE HAVE NEVER TO ESTABLISH ANY THING
FROM OUR SIDE BUT SIMPLY HAVE TO WORKOUT THE REPORTED CIRCUMSTANCES
AS WELL AS DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCES AS AVAILABLE BUT IN THE LAST OUR
REPORT IS CONSIDERED AS COMPREHENSIVE AND COMPLETE ONLY WHEN THE
RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE ACCEPTABILITY OF LIABILITY ARE WELL MENTIONED
I.E. AFTER ESTABLISHING THE OCCURRENCE / OPERATING OF THE PERIL.
Finally I would appreciate respected Sri P.C. Shukla for changing his
opinion from 'NO' to 'YES' in the view of reported facts.
Regards
D.K. SAXENA
SURVEYOR - HALDWANI
Mob. No. +91 9837048029
On 7/4/13, P.C.Shukla <pcshuk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Mr.Ramani,
>
> Your question reminds me of a old song of Sasural film “ Ek sawal mai
> karoon Ek sawal tum karo; har sawal ka jawab hi sawal ho’
>
> Any way I shall try to reply your very good question.
>
> Your question is that if standalone rain damage does fall in the category
> of expected peril then only rain damage as a consequence of ‘Storm” is
> covered or excluded ?.
>
> First of all let me tell you that it will never happen and if atoll
> happened then claim is payable but why?
>
> To understand this we have to go to the basics of “proximate cause”
>
> Storm are created when a center of low pressure develop with a system of
> high pressure surrounding it. This creates strong wind and clouds.
> Therefore, heavy rains occurs hand-in-hand with storm. This entire action
> is one composite peril i.e storm. So you cannot separate strong wind and
> rains separately.
>
> such that it was not affected by wind element of “Storm”. But mind you it
>
> is not the property of subject matter which decides the peril in
> operation but the cause and effect thereof.
>
> To summaries, the proximate cause is not the first cause, nor the last. To
> nearest in point* but the cause efficient and dominant, which is “*storm*”
>
>
> *P.C. Shukla*| *Surveyors & Loss Adjusters*|*Surveyors India*
>
> | *117/H-1/125*| *Pandu Nagar*| *Kanpur*| *Uttar Pradesh - 208005*| *INDIA*
> | Tel: +91-512-2216416 | Tel/Fax: +91-512-2231409| Mobile: +91 9415044156
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 8:14:23 PM UTC+5:30, smra...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Dear Shukla Saheb,
>>
>> I agree but in case of heavy wind say more than 50 kilometers but stock
>> lying in open, not damaged by wind, is damaged only by rainwater, then
>> claim is admissible or not?
>>
>>
>> Thanks & regards.
>>
>> Shailesh M Ramani
>> [Fire, Engineering & Marine cargo]
>> 9825075737 & 9428265962.
>> 1/17 Star Shopping Centre
>> 20 New Jagnath Plot
>> **
>> *Ahmedabad Office*:
>> umang....@ymail.com <javascript:>
>> *-------Original Message-------*
>>
>> *From:* Prem Chandra Shukla <javascript:>
>> *Date:* 03/07/2013 7:01:03 PM
>> *To:* insurance-su...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>
>> *Cc:* Insurance...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>;
>> insurance...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>
>> *Subject:* [Adjusters:13139] Re: Claim Under Fire Policy - Operative
>>
>> Dear Mr. Rathi,
>>
>> As mentioned by you the loss has occurred due to untimely rain followed
>> with strong wind and marginal hail and the stocks were kept in open. The
>>
>> note from district officer also confirms same thing. Now the issue whether
>>
>> 'this untimely rain with strong wind and marginal hail falls under STFI
>> ?
>>
>> Rains in particular untimely rains are followed with some strong wind (
>> and the answer is "NO".
>>
>> First of all let us be clear that rains no matter timely or untimely is
>> not a part of STFI in any way..
>>
>> and usually followed with thunder , rain or snow". *
>> So in case of "Storm having raged in an area you will find huge
>> devastation in terms of uprooting electric poles/huts and trees all
>> around.
>> In storm generally high wind ( with velocity above 50 Km/Hr) followed
>> with
>> rains ,thunder or hailstorm.
>>
>> In your case its heavy rains followed with breeze , therefore, in my
>> opinion does not fall under STFI peril
>>
>>
>> *P.C. Shukla*| *Surveyors & Loss Adjusters*|*Surveyors India*
>>
>> | *117/H-1/125*| *Pandu Nagar*| *Kanpur*| *Uttar Pradesh - 208005*|
>> *INDIA
>> *
>> | Tel: +91-512-2216416 | Tel/Fax: +91-512-2231409| Mobile: +91 9415044156
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 8:40:44 PM UTC+5:30, pukira wrote:
>> Dear Friends,
>> An insured suffered a loss in stock kept/stored in OPEN; which is covered
>>
>> under FIRE POLICY wherein STFI is covered peril.
>>
>> During last week of May there was untimely rain with hail-fallen for a
>> short time. Rain continued for 2 to 3 hours. Rain was associated with
>> strong wind.
>> This rain fall was in a villages covering 10 Sq.KM. area. There is no
>> observatory around.Collectorate took note of it and in panchanama
>> mentioned
>> it as "BEMOUSAMI BARSAT AUR OLLA VRISHTI - UNTIMELY RAIN ASSOCIATED WITH
>> HAIL".
>>
>> Whether loss is payable?
>>
>> Your views please.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> SLA P.K.Rathi
>>
>> Get your own *FREE* website and domain with business email solutions,
>> click
>> here<http://track.rediff.com/click?url=___http://hosting.rediff.com/rediffmailpro/business-email?sc_cid=sig___&cmp=sig&lnk=sig&nsrv1=host>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>
>> "Insurance Adjusters" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>>
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> FREE
>> Animations for your
>> email<http://www.incredimail.com/?id=621159&did=10501&ppd=2820,201206281812,9,1,748943133715480660&rui=149848337&app_test_id=0&sd=20130703>
>>
>> <http://www.incredimail.com/?id=621159&did=10501&ppd=2820,201206281812,9,1,748943133715480660&rui=149848337&app_test_id=0&sd=20130703>
>>
>> <http://www.incredimail.com/?id=621159&did=10501&ppd=2820,201206281812,9,1,748943133715480660&rui=149848337&app_test_id=0&sd=20130703>
>>
>> <http://www.incredimail.com/?id=621159&did=10501&ppd=2820,201206281812,9,1,748943133715480660&rui=149848337&app_test_id=0&sd=20130703>
>>
>> <http://www.incredimail.com/?id=621159&did=10501&ppd=2820,201206281812,9,1,748943133715480660&rui=149848337&app_test_id=0&sd=20130703>
>> Click
>> Here!
>> <http://www.incredimail.com/?id=621159&did=10501&ppd=2820,201206281812,9,1,748943133715480660&rui=149848337&app_test_id=0&sd=20130703>
>>
>> <http://www.incredimail.com/?id=621159&did=10501&ppd=2820,201206281812,9,1,748943133715480660&rui=149848337&app_test_id=0&sd=20130703>
>>
>> <http://www.incredimail.com/?id=621159&did=10501&ppd=2820,201206281812,9,1,748943133715480660&rui=149848337&app_test_id=0&sd=20130703>
>>
>> <http://www.incredimail.com/?id=621159&did=10501&ppd=2820,201206281812,9,1,748943133715480660&rui=149848337&app_test_id=0&sd=20130703>
>>
>> <http://www.incredimail.com/?id=621159&did=10501&ppd=2820,201206281812,9,1,748943133715480660&rui=149848337&app_test_id=0&sd=20130703>
>>
>> <http://www.incredimail.com/?id=621159&did=10501&ppd=2820,201206281812,9,1,748943133715480660&rui=149848337&app_test_id=0&sd=20130703>
>>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> To post to this group, send email to insurance...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/insurance_surveyors.
Denesh Saxena
qpmalik
MITTAL SURVEYOR
Mittal Surveyors Pvt. Ltd.
Mittal Street
Amrik Singh Road
Bathinda (Punjab) -151005
mittals...@gmail.com
Website: www.mittalsurveyors.com
(M) 098140-35030
(O) 0164-2250590
--
bhatia...@gmail.com
Manohar S Sainani
Shailesh Shah
Very good resource Sainaniji. And in absence of records one should visualize surroundings and derive his views. Problem of PKR and many others is that insurers demand weather reports and formulate their opinion on liability. It is not easy in remote places as this. So shouldn't insurers trust on other views of village chairman?
--
Shailesh Shah
Shuklaji,
On a similar scenario, a tripper accidentally hits overhead wire and sparks take place in control panel of few machines damaging pcb and other electronic parts.
What will u consider the proximate cause and its application in fire policy which covers impact damage by own vehicles of an insured.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to insurance_surve...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to insurance...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/insurance_surveyors.
P.C.Shukla
To post to this group, send an email to insurance...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/insurance-adjusters.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Insurance surveyors" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to insurance_surveyors+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
Shailesh Shah
One insurer is arguing that where is the direct contact written. And also visible physical damage.
I too gave the same opinion but the twrms are being stretched too far by people nowadays. Same guys wud make different interpretation and who loses the job is surveyor ultimately who wants be on the side of right knowledge.
Thanks for your response shuklaji. If u can add a bit on first two pointers it wud be nice.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to insurance_surve...@googlegroups.com.
P.C.Shukla
"Direct contact " & "Physical damage" clearly mentioned on the printed policy under " Impact damage". Pl go tru
pcshukla@kanpur
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to insurance_surveyors+unsubscribe...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to insurance...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/insurance_surveyors.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Shailesh Shah
Sorry forgot to mention there are policies here in Tanzania which exclude these words
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to insurance_surve...@googlegroups.com.
s_vashisht .
ImpImpact Damage
|
|
Loss of or visible physical damage or destruction caused to the property insured due to impact by any Rail/ Road vehicle or animal by direct contact not belonging to or owned by |
|
a) the Insured or any occupier of the premises or b) their employees while acting in the course of their employment.
|
Regards
Suresh Vashisht
Suresh Vashisht & Co.
Shailesh Shah
Sharing the outcome of my dialogue wirh insurance officials on matter of interpretation and fear of standing by truth.
(Identity withheld for obvious reasons)
Cheers! This is the bottom line of business new age thinking.
Decide for yourself whether it's good or bad.
wrote:
>>
>> Dear Shailesh,
>> While deciding on the admissibility of any claim, we have to be guided as per the policy wordings which form the basis of the contract. The wordings of our policy covering the extension of “Impact damage” is as under :
>> “impact by animals, trees, aerials, satellite dishes or vehicles excluding damage to such animals, trees, aerials, satellite dishes or vehicles or property in or on such vehicles.”
>> Though what you mention about direct contact is implied, the above wordings of our policy only require that the “damage is caused by impact by vehicles”
>>
>> With this background and also the trend of court judgements in this market, we would have an uphill task in defending ourselves. Same goes for the mention of general warranties which you have made in another mail of yours in connection with employing of “unskilled driver”
>>
>>
>>
>> When we repudiate a claim, we should have a very appropriate reference to any exception or condition in the policy which is good enough to support our stand.
>> Thanks and regards
>> From: Shailesh Shah [mailto:shaile...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: 13 November 2013 11:42
hailesh. shah
>> Subject: Fwd: Re: {Surveyors:18744} Re: [Adjusters:13139] Re: Claim Under Fire Policy - Operative Peril STFI - Views Please.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: shaile...@gmail.com
>> Date: 13 Nov 2013 10:37
>> Subject: Fwd: Re: {Surveyors:18744} Re: [Adjusters:13139] Re: Claim Under Fire Policy - Operative
>>
>>
>> The primary difference in india and this policy is words direct damage.
>>
>> Hoever it is implied meaning.
>>
>> Even if u refer ciila write ups they indicate direct impact.
>>
>> Just for sharing.
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: "P.C.Shukla" <pcshuk...@gmail.com>
>> Date: 10 Nov 2013 16:12
>> Subject: Re: {Surveyors:18744} Re: [Adjusters:13139] Re: Claim Under Fire Policy - Operative Peril STFI - Views Please.
>> To: <insurance...@googlegroups.com>
>> Cc:
>>
>> > Dear Shailesh,
>> >
>> > "Direct contact " & "Physical damage" clearly mentioned on the printed policy under " Impact damage". Pl go tru
>> >
>> >
