Damage to X-Ray Tube of CT Scan , under EEI policy

Vinod Soorma

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Mar 6, 2017, 9:06:21 AM3/6/17

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Dear All,

As per EEI policy, Special Exclusion to Section 1, The company is not liable for

"loss of or damage to bulbs, valves, tubes... etc."

Kindly confirm, whether or not X-Ray Tube falls under the definition of 'valve'.

Thanks,

Vinod Soorma

09810088013 Delhi

Piyush Siinghal

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Mar 6, 2017, 11:52:35 PM3/6/17

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X Ray tubes are special purpose valves but the policy defines the life of the X-ray tube. No standard deletion is done, rather depnding upon the exposures, the claim is paid on the remaining life.

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B/Rgds

Piyush Siinghal
0-9811047785

VINOD SOORMA

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Mar 7, 2017, 8:24:44 AM3/7/17

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Thanks Dear Piyush

From: Piyush Siinghal
Sent: ‎07-‎03-‎2017 10:22 AM
To: insurance_surveyors
Subject: Re: {Surveyors:28940} Damage to X-Ray Tube of CT Scan , under EEIpolicy

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vinod saboo

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Mar 7, 2017, 8:24:46 AM3/7/17

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Dear All,
It is covered by endorsement & paid as part of limited life.Percentage to be paid is also mentioned.
Rgds.

Piyush Siinghal

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Mar 7, 2017, 10:46:08 PM3/7/17

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Here is the circular which can be found at https://iib.gov.in/IIB/tac/circulars/ecir2001.htm

Engg/Gen-16/2001/26 13th June, 2001

Re: Electronic Equipment Insurance :

A) Excess for Personal Computers

B) Insurance of VSAT Eqpt.

C) Insurance of Medical Eqpt.-Additional “Endorsement”

Tariff Advisory Committee decided to introduce the following amendments in “Electronic Equipment Insurance”Tariff..

A) “Personal Computers”

It has been decided to revise the excess for “Personal Computers” to 5% of claim amount subject to a minimum of Rs. 2500/-.

B) Insurance of VSAT equipment

It has been decided to introduce the following rates and terms for V-SAT Equipment

Rate - Rs.1.00% for all parts of VSAT Eqpt.

Excess for AOG claims - 10% of claim amount subject to a minimum of Rs.10,000/-

Excess for other claims - As per EEI tariff

C) Medical Equipment using X-ray tubes

As regards depreciation for Medical Equipment using X-ray tubes , it has been decided to adopt the following ‘Endorsement’s wordings’ for which are given in the “annexure”

i) Cover of x-ray valves & tubes

ii) Special condition Concerning Computer Tecnographs

iii) Warranty for Lightning and over-voltage Protection Divices

iv) Warranty concerning Air-conditioning Plant.

The decision is effective from 13th June, 2001.

Encl: “annexure”

ANNEXURE TO ITEM - 8(c) of 192 & Cir. No. 26 of 13/06/2001

_______________________________________________________________

Cover of Valves and Tubes

It is agreed and understood that otherwise subject to the terms, exclusions, provisions and conditions contained in the Policy or endorsed thereon, this insurance shall be extended to include loss of or damage to valves and tubes. Indemnification shall be limited to the actual value of such items (cf 1 - 7) immediately prior to the occurrence of the loss or damage, including ordinary freight, erection costs and custom duties and dues, if any.

1. Actual values of

1.1. stationary anode X-ray tubes in single-tank setup and rotating anode X-ray tubes without exposure counters for diagnostic equipment

1.2. surface and close-range radio-therapy X-ray tubes and valves

1.3. video amplifier tubes

Age (months)	Actual value in % of new replacement value
Less than 18	100
Less than 20	90
Less than 23	80
Less than 26	70
Less than 30	60
Less than 34	50
Less than 40	40
Less than 46	30
Less than 52	20
Less than 60	10
More than 60	0

2. Actual values of valves for diagnostic equipment

Age (months)	Actual value in % of new replacement value
Less than 33	100
Less than 36	90
Less than 39	80
Less than 42	70
Less than 45	60
Less than 48	50
Less than 51	40
Less than 54	30
Less than 57	20
Less than 60	10
More than 60	0

3. Actual value of rotating anode X-ray tubes with lead-sealed exposure counters for diagnostic equipment

Number of exposures	Actual value in % of new replacement value
Less than 10,000	100
Less than 12,000	90
Less than 14,000	80
Less than 16,000	70
Less than 19,000	60
Less than 22,000	50
Less than 26,000	40
Less than 30,000	30
Less than 35,000	20
Less than 40,000	10
More than 40,000	0

4. Actual values of deep therapy X-ray tubes and valves

Period of operation (hours)OR Age (months) (whichever results in the lower actual value)		Actual value in % of new replacement value
Period of operation (hours)	Age (months)
Less than 400	Less than 18	100
Less than 500	Less than 22	90
Less than 600	Less than 26	80
Less than 700	Less than 30	70
Less than 800	Less than 35	60
Less than 900	Less than 40	50
Less than 1000	Less than 45	40
Less than 1100	Less than 50	30
Less than 1200	Less than 55	20
Less than 1300	Less than 60	10
More than 1300	More than 60	0

5. Actual values of X-ray tubes and valves for material testing equipment

Period of operation (hours) OR Age(months) (whichever results in the lower actual value)		Actual value in % of new replacement value
Period of operation or’ (hours)	Age (months)
Less than 300	Less than 6	100
Less than 380	Less than 8	90
Less than 460	Less than 10	80
Less than 540	Less than 12	70
Less than 620	Less than 14	60
Less than 700	Less than 16	50
Less than 780	Less than 18	40
Less than 860	Less than 20	30
More than 860	More than 20	20

6. Actual values of picture and pick-up tubes for TV equipment

After 12 months’ use, the actual values of picture and pick-up tubes shall be reduced by 3% per month down to a minimum of 20% of the new replacement values.

7. Actual values of other types of tubes and valves

For other types of tubes and valves the actual values on the date of an occurrence shall be determined on the basis of data furnished by the supplier.

________________________________________________________________

Special condition concerning Computer Tomographs

It is agreed and understood that otherwise subject to the terms, exclusions, provisions and conditions contained in the Policy or endorsed thereon, the Insurers shall not be liable for any demage consisting in the failure of individual construction elements or components, unless it can be proved that such damage has been caused by an external event acting on the system or by a fire generated within the system.

In contrast to the indemnity scales of Endorsement on “Cover for valves and tubes” incorporated in medical equipment, the following scales shall apply to the tubes indicated below built into computer tomographs:

1. X-ray tubes

with high-voltage time meter (stationary-anode tubes): (operating hours up to)	with exposure counter (rotating-anode tubes): (No. of exposures up to)	indemnity: ( % )
400	10,000	100
440	11,000	90
480	12,000	80
520	13,000	70
600	15,000	60
720	18,000	50
840	21,000	40
960	24,000	30
1,080	27,000	20
1,200	30,000	10

2. Tubes for voltage stabilization and regulation

Period of use (months)	Indemnity %
36	100
39	90
41	80
44	70
47	60
49	50
52	40
55	30
57	20
60	10

______________________________________________________________________________

Warranty for Lightning and Overvoltage Protection Devices

It is agreed and understood that otherwise subject to the terms, exclusions, provisions and conditions contained in the Policy or endorsed thereon, the Insurers shall only indemnify the Insured in respect of loss of or damage to electronic equipment or data media or increased cost of working as a result of lightning or overvoltage if the electronic equipment is fitted with lightning and overvoltage protection devices and alarm system and these have been installed and maintained in accordance with the recommendations of the manufacturers of the electronic equipment and the lightning and overvoltage protection devices.

This means that the lightning and overvoltage protection devices and alarm system

--- are regularly serviced by qualified personnel of the manufacturer or supplier,

--- are kept under supervision by trained personnel,

--- are provided with an automatic switch-off device complying with the latest requirements for electronic equipment and the manufactur’s recommendations.

On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 12:16 PM, VINOD SOORMA <soorma...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Dear Piyush
From: Piyush Siinghal
Sent: ‎07-‎03-‎2017 10:22 AM
To: insurance_surveyors
Subject: Re: {Surveyors:28940} Damage to X-Ray Tube of CT Scan , under EEIpolicy

X Ray tubes are special purpose valves but the policy defines the life of the X-ray tube. No standard deletion is done, rather depnding upon the exposures, the claim is paid on the remaining life.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 1:45 PM, Vinod Soorma <soorma...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear All,

As per EEI policy, Special Exclusion to Section 1, The company is not liable for

"loss of or damage to bulbs, valves, tubes... etc."

Kindly confirm, whether or not X-Ray Tube falls under the definition of 'valve'.

Thanks,

Vinod Soorma
09810088013 Delhi

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B/Rgds

Piyush Siinghal
0-9811047785

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SANJAY SURPURIYA

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Mar 8, 2017, 1:04:49 AM3/8/17

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Dear All

This circular is almost 16 year old. At that time most of the C.T. Scan machines were single slice machines. Due to improvement in technology now new machines available are up to 320 slices. 64 Slice C.T. Scanners are very common now. By this circular the value of the X ray tube after 40000 exposures is zero. If we consider the average use of the machine ( 32 - 64 slice machine) for any good organisation 40000 exposures are completed in 6 - 8 months time. If we go by this circular X ray tube be replaced every 4-6 months. Is it the case ?? I have seen a 64 slice C.T. Scanner X Ray tube which has completed 9 Lakh exposures and is still working. When this is pointed out facts are side lined by giving standard reply- always there are exceptions.

Now a days C.T. Scanner ( 32 - 64 slice m/c) X ray tube working for more than 250000 exposures is very common. Many of us must have handled the claims for X ray tubes which have completed more than 250000 exposures. So is it not an injustice with the insured when we consider the life of X ray tube as 40000 exposures ( as per the circular). If the data is collected all over India- it can be very well proved that this 16 year old circular is outdated and needs revision along with other engineering circulars. Due to improvement in technology certainly present X ray tube last longer. Let us first find out among us. I request all my friends to share the recent data for the number of exposures X ray tube has lasted (for the claim handled by them).

Regards

SANJAY SURPURIYA.

PUNE.

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Piyush Siinghal
0-9811047785

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raghavan kodoth

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Mar 8, 2017, 1:45:52 AM3/8/17

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In the present generation CTs, the exposure is counted in mA-Sec, some times only in Sec. There is no counter which will give number of exposures. In earlier CTs, the exposure time and x-ray current were much higher, hence, 40,000 scans of those times maybe equivalent to 2,00,000 or more slices in present generation CTs., in respect of x-ray tube exploitation. Over the years, the exposure time and current have been brought down considerably for each exposure, to reduce effect of radiation on patients. To get the exact picture you need to see the patient scan register in which the exposure time and current set for each exposure will be written. Collect the data for a whole year to know, how much it adds to per year (average). 

I have done such an exercise in the Malabar Cancer Centre, Kannur, Kerala, a couple of years ago, which revealed some interesting figures. 

I agree that we cannot go by the circular, since there is no exposure counter anyway. The software will show the total exposure time done so far for the x-ray tube. There is also a gantry rotation counter reading available in some of the machines.

K.P.Raghavan

 On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 11:57 AM, 'chirag shah' via Indian Independent Insurance Surveyor And Loss Assessors Bengal <iiisla...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Dear All,

I met one repairer cum dealer of CT scanner machine and discussed about average life span of X-ray tube. He informed that he has experience of 20 years in this field. Average life span of X-ray tube of CT scan machine is 4 lacs exposures. It may vary from Company to Company.

with regards,

CHIRAG SHAH

Mob. : 98252 69184

 On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 11:34 AM, SANJAY SURPURIYA <sanjays...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear All            This  circular  is  almost  16 year old. At  that  time most  of  the  C.T. Scan machines were  single slice  machines. Due  to improvement  in technology now  new  machines  available  are up to 320 slices. 64  Slice  C.T. Scanners  are very common now. By  this  circular  the  value of  the  X ray tube after  40000 exposures  is  zero. If  we  consider  the average use  of  the  machine (  32 - 64 slice  machine) for  any  good  organisation  40000 exposures are  completed in 6 - 8 months  time. If  we  go by this circular  X ray tube  be  replaced  every  4-6 months. Is  it  the  case ??  I  have  seen a 64 slice C.T. Scanner  X Ray tube which has  completed 9 Lakh exposures  and  is  still   working. When this is pointed out   facts  are  side lined  by giving standard  reply-  always  there  are  exceptions. 

            Now  a  days C.T. Scanner ( 32 - 64 slice m/c)   X ray tube  working  for more  than 250000 exposures  is  very  common. Many  of  us  must  have  handled  the  claims  for  X  ray tubes  which have  completed  more  than 250000  exposures. So is it not an injustice  with  the  insured  when  we  consider  the life  of  X ray  tube  as 40000 exposures ( as  per  the  circular). If  the  data  is  collected  all over  India-  it can be  very well proved  that this  16 year old circular  is outdated  and  needs  revision along  with other  engineering  circulars. Due to improvement in technology certainly  present X ray tube last longer. Let us first find out  among  us. I request all  my  friends to  share  the  recent data for  the number  of  exposures X ray tube has lasted (for  the  claim handled  by  them). 

 Regards
SANJAY SURPURIYA.
PUNE.

       

On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 09:16:08 UTC+5:30, Piyush Singhal  wrote:

Here is the circular which can be found at  https://iib.gov.in/IIB/tac/ circulars/ecir2001.htm

Engg/Gen-16/2001/26                                                                  13th June, 2001
 
                        Re: El ectronic Equipment Insurance :

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raghavan kodoth

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Mar 8, 2017, 1:46:32 AM3/8/17

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In the present generation CTs, the exposure is counted in mA-Sec, some times only in Sec. There is no counter which will give number of exposures. In earlier CTs, the exposure time and x-ray current were much higher, hence, 40,000 scans of those times maybe equivalent to 2,00,000 or more slices in present generation CTs., in respect of x-ray tube exploitation. Over the years, the exposure time and current have been brought down considerably for each exposure, to reduce effect of radiation on patients. To get the exact picture you need to see the patient scan register in which the exposure time and current set for each exposure will be written. Collect the data for a whole year to know, how much it adds to per year (average). 

I have done such an exercise in the Malabar Cancer Centre, Kannur, Kerala, a couple of years ago, which revealed some interesting figures. 

I agree that we cannot go by the circular, since there is no exposure counter anyway. The software will show the total exposure time done so far for the x-ray tube. There is also a gantry rotation counter reading available in some of the machines.

K.P.Raghavan

 On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 11:35 AM, SANJAY SURPURIYA <sanjays...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear All            This  circular  is  almost  16 year old. At  that  time most  of  the  C.T. Scan machines were  single slice  machines. Due  to improvement  in technology now  new  machines  available  are up to 320 slices. 64  Slice  C.T. Scanners  are very common now. By  this  circular  the  value of  the  X ray tube after  40000 exposures  is  zero. If  we  consider  the average use  of  the  machine (  32 - 64 slice  machine) for  any  good  organisation  40000 exposures are  completed in 6 - 8 months  time. If  we  go by this circular  X ray tube  be  replaced  every  4-6 months. Is  it  the  case ??  I  have  seen a 64 slice C.T. Scanner  X Ray tube which has  completed 9 Lakh exposures  and  is  still   working. When this is pointed out   facts  are  side lined  by giving standard  reply-  always  there  are  exceptions. 

            Now  a  days C.T. Scanner ( 32 - 64 slice m/c)   X ray tube  working  for more  than 250000 exposures  is  very  common. Many  of  us  must  have  handled  the  claims  for  X  ray tubes  which have  completed  more  than 250000  exposures. So is it not an injustice  with  the  insured  when  we  consider  the life  of  X ray  tube  as 40000 exposures ( as  per  the  circular). If  the  data  is  collected  all over  India-  it can be  very well proved  that this  16 year old circular  is outdated  and  needs  revision along  with other  engineering  circulars. Due to improvement in technology certainly  present X ray tube last longer. Let us first find out  among  us. I request all  my  friends to  share  the  recent data for  the number  of  exposures X ray tube has lasted (for  the  claim handled  by  them). 

 Regards
SANJAY SURPURIYA.
PUNE.

       

On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 09:16:08 UTC+5:30, Piyush Singhal  wrote:

Here is the circular which can be found at  https://iib.gov.in/IIB/tac/ circulars/ecir2001.htm

Engg/Gen-16/2001/26                                                                  13th June, 2001
 
                        Re: El ectronic Equipment Insurance :

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