Re: JCB machine driver / operator

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M S Sainani, Surveyor / Loss Adjuster

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Dec 29, 2016, 6:01:05 AM12/29/16
to iiisla-bengal, iiisla-tech...@googlegroups.com, iiisl...@googlegroups.com, iiisla-s...@googlegroups.com, ISI, insurance-surveyors-india@google, Insurance-Adjusters
Dear Friends,

There are many & varied explanations some very impressive & some argumentative with lots of feelers without citation, our take on issue of DL & experience certificate is as below, friends having subject matter expertise can definitely comment & correct me wherever feasible:

  1. There are two kinds of / sets of rules prevailing in our country viz. Central Motor Vehicle Act & State Motor vehicle rules, each state is empowered to make their own state motor vehicle rules, the relevant one is licensing even for track mounted equipments say excavators & examples are Maharastra, Orissa, Himachal Pradesh to name a few, most of the states doesn't call for a DL for heavy machines which are not tyre mounted.
  2. Conversely all tyre mounted equipments (including Back Hoe loaders) would require an appropriate driving license as per CMV / SMR depending on classification as per respective MV Act whenever plying on public roads, back hoe loaders are an easy example.
  3. Now the issue of requirement of DL & / or Experience / Training Certificate for track mounted equipments:
    1. Misc Class D Policy:
      1. Driver - “Any person including the insured” - Provided that a person driving holds an effective driving license at the time of the accident and is not disqualified from holding or obtaining such a license.
      2. Provided also that the person holding an effective Learner’s license may also drive the vehicle * * and that such a person satisfies the requirements of Rule 3 of the Central Motor Vehicles Rules, 1989".
    2. CPM Policies:
      1. Policy stipulations on operator. 
      The Insured shall fully observe the manufacturer’s instructions for operating, inspection and overhaul, as well as government, statutory, municipal and all other binding regulations in force concerning the operation and maintenance of the insured plant and machinery.
      1. Now the issue under CPM Policy is:
        1. When DL is not applicable the policy calls for - full observance of the manufacturer’s instructions for operating.
        2. That tentamounts to suitability & fitness of operating person & hence an experience & / or training certificate is called for.
        3. In such circumstances, being little gray area surveyor has to play a vital role & either of the following & combination of the following comments in CPM & Misc Class D track mounted equipments for rational settlement of the claim without much hasseles as to DL / Experience / Training certificate (if not available / viable) 
Quote
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    1. Surveyor’s recommendations in light of above could be:
      1. If there is no formal system of issuing experience certificate by – Manufacturer, Authorized Dealer / Supplier, previous employers in that case the present employer can certify him as fit & proper for the operation after recommendation of authorized service provider & evaluation at their end.
      2. Experience Certificates & / or Training Certificates substantiating above could be an evidence which can be collected if possible.
      3. Exploring operator’s knowledge, experience & expertise of operating such equipments with present & previous employers.
      4. The operator could be enquired / questioned about nuances of this equipment operation, safety precautions, minor maintenance & upkeep.
      5. Rate his response & knowledge of the equipment operation – is he apparently well conversant or ignorant about norms & operations of such machines etc & clearly spell out your deliberations as to fit & properness, suitability of operator in absence of any licensing provisions.
Note: Step 3, 4 & 5 comes in to play when 1 & 2 doesn't support the claim process, we as independent surveyors can take a call as per step 3, 4 & 5 & most of the time it would serve the purpose.
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Unquote

Although apparently the policies are not very explicit on experience & / or training certificate however our take on the situation for smooth settlement of the claim with suitable remarks would help insurers in processing the files.

Here it would be pertinent to note that we are working independently & stake holders / policy holders & system expects a rational working & recommendation from surveyors, little louder thinking tells us that we are not working for insurers (they are the trust fund managers) & we owe certain responsibilities towards the trust fund stake holder be it the claimant policy holder of or non-claimant stake / policy holders who are contributing to the pool.

Inputs from friends are awaited.

Breg
M S Sainani (SLA 15187 - 3/3/17)
+ 91 9414168144 | adjuste...@gmail.com | sai...@adjusterindia.com
Udaipur, Rajasthan.

On 29 December 2016 at 09:30, MAHENDRA TRIVEDI <mhtri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear all
Whether used in private premises or on public road may also be looked into.  If in pvt premises experience or training certificate may suffice.
Regards MHTRIVEDI
From: iiisla...@googlegroups.com <iiisla-bengal@googlegroups.com> on behalf of jamshed kamdin <surveyo...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2016 5:27:03 PM
To: iiisla...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: JCB machine driver / operator
 
Brother please update it not a jcb the technical name BACK  Hoe LOADER . JCB are British principals with Escorts. 

If the wheel are in motion at the time of occurrence licence is required, say it moving with load in the bucket . MDL IS REQUIRED.

If the Back hoe loader is in stationary position at the time of occurrence. (1)Say it is on wheel's but not moving even back and forth,(2) further it hoisted on telescopic rams. Here come the roll of operator Licence not required in (1& 2).

so the cause of accident described is very important, to be ventured, or detail clarification may be called for prior to arriving at at any conclusion.

To my opinion calling for training certificate is also not required. As there is nowhere specifically laid in any books of manufacture's, operators manual, insurance policy terms contract,in any class of motor policy be it "D" or any, neither in  law books of machinery or cranes to be operated,that the training certificate is required..Yes if one has it may be additional qualification for the operator to put forth his skill & expertise.(IF ANY BROTHER FINDS PLEASE UPRAISE ME I WOULD LIKE TO APPRAISE MY KNOWLEDGE IF I AM LACKING)

Yes training certificates are called by the scrupulous officers of  private players as they are interested in not paying the claim, by some reason or the other they are waiting for such and opportunity or lapse, they want and excuse.

The training is imparted by the manufacture to up date operator on their product,to know its capacity perform ability , and to get optimum yield for the owner in terms with lowest maintenance to work it to it max efficiency. 

many of our brother will not agree,if you reason out the other way if the operator/ driver is not competent is the insured/ owner fool to give his machine who dose not know to operate. We have forgotten empathy and become more of advocates than surveyor.



I give an example.in with terms of underwriters.

I am holding valid lmv motor driving licence and in force.
I feel facinited to take my wife on drive in 7 series B.M.W.
I with consent of my friend borrow his 7 series for pleasure purpose.
On my way in meet with an accident termed as unforeseen misfortune event, with external violent means.
The next day a Idiot from a private player say the claim is not admissible, as i am not taken training to drive B.M.W.

dose it mean that to have a training or not have ingraining challenges the licence issue authority who has authorized me to drive that particular class.   

you will dozens of such stupids  specially a particular class in GIC.  Few new up growing  officials grown with out experience .
  
sorry once again


On 28 December 2016 at 10:52, 'chandra sekhara' via Indian Independent Insurance Surveyor And Loss Assessors Bengal <iiisla-bengal@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Dear Varshney,

As per MV Act, to drive any tyre mounted vehicle, driving licence is required.

JCB is tyre mounted vehicle and will also be registered with the transport department.

Check the class of vehicle mentioned in the RC book of the JCB.

Driving licence of the specified class of vehicle mentioned in the RC is required to drive JCB.

The above is my interpretation and other members may give their opinion.



--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 28/12/16, 'mohan israni' via Indian Independent Insurance Surveyor And Loss Assessors Bengal <iiisla...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: JCB machine driver / operator
 To: "iiisla...@googlegroups.com" <iiisla...@googlegroups.com>
 Date: Wednesday, 28 December, 2016, 1:28 AM

 Dear
 P K Varshney,For
 operation of the JCB or any Heavy Earth Moving machine there
 is no such license in practice under law; the operators
 either learn the operation from the supplier's experts
 or  are self made ones who learn from other experienced
 operators. So for such  machine operates on the site
 without comming on the public road, no license is required
 to operate the machine; however once such machine comes on
 the public road, the driver cum operator or the individual
 who drives the machine only, need the heavy vehicle license
 issued by an authorized RTO. Good Luck      
                
         Mohan Israni   


     On Tuesday, 27
 December 2016 10:49 PM, P.K. Varshney
 <surveyor...@gmail.com> wrote:


  Which type licence
 holder can drive / operate JVB machine.

 --

 With
 RegardsP. K.
 VARSHNEYSurveyor / Loss
 AssessorMob.
 9456871658BAREILLY




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Thanks & Regards
Jamshed P Kamdin
7567940570

Surveyors & Loss Assessors
11-A, Himmatlal Park -1, B/H Bima Nagar, Po Ambavadi Vistar, Ahmedabad - 380015

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