[efloraofindia:32458] Malvaceae for id 170410MK1

[Muthu Karthick]

Dear all,

plase id this Malvaceae member.

Is this undershrub Hibiscus vitifolius L.?

Date/Time-	08-01-2009 / 4:00 PM
Location- Place, Altitude, GPS-	Sathamangalam RF; 1000msl
Habitat- Garden/ Urban/ Wild/ Type-	floors of dry deciduous forests
Plant Habit-	erect under-shrub
Height/Length-	Up to 1 metre
Leaves Type/ Shape/ Size-	lobed; ca.5cm length
Inflorescence Type/ Size-	single
Flowers Size/ Colour/ Calyx/ Bracts-	yellow; ca. 8cm across
Fruits Type/ Shape/ Size Seeds-
Other Information like Fragrance, Pollinator, Uses etc.-

--
Muthu Karthick, N
Junior Research Fellow
Care Earth Trust
Chennai - 61
www.careearthtrust.org

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[Nayan Singh]

Yes Muthu ji

it is Hibiscus vitifolius L
 

N.S.Dungriyal IFS
Chief Conservator of Forests
and Field Director
Satpura Tiger Reserve Hoshangabad
M.P.
09424792100

---

From: Muthu Karthick <nmk...@gmail.com>
To: indiantreepix <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, 17 April, 2010 12:06:47 PM
Subject: [efloraofindia:32458] Malvaceae for id 170410MK1

[Hemanth]

check with Fioria vitifolia (L.) Mattei

On Apr 17, 11:54 am, Nayan Singh <ns_dungri...@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> Yes Muthu ji
> it is Hibiscus vitifolius L
>  N.S.Dungriyal IFS
> Chief Conservator of Forests
> and Field Director
> Satpura Tiger Reserve Hoshangabad
> M.P.
> 09424792100
>
> ________________________________

> From: Muthu Karthick <nmk....@gmail.com>

> To: indiantreepix <indian...@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Sat, 17 April, 2010 12:06:47 PM
> Subject: [efloraofindia:32458] Malvaceae for id 170410MK1
>
> Dear all,
> plase id this Malvaceae member.
> Is this undershrub Hibiscus vitifolius L.?
>
> Date/Time-  08-01-2009 / 4:00 PM
> Location- Place, Altitude, GPS-  Sathamangalam RF; 1000msl
> Habitat- Garden/ Urban/ Wild/ Type-  floors of dry deciduous forests
> Plant Habit- erect under-shrub
> Height/Length-  Up to 1 metre
> Leaves Type/ Shape/ Size-  lobed; ca.5cm length
> Inflorescence Type/ Size-  single
> Flowers Size/ Colour/ Calyx/ Bracts-  yellow; ca. 8cm across
> Fruits Type/ Shape/ Size Seeds- 
>
> Other Information like Fragrance, Pollinator, Uses etc.-    --
> Muthu Karthick, N
> Junior Research Fellow
> Care Earth Trust
> Chennai - 61www.careearthtrust.org
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.
> To post to this group, send email to indian...@googlegroups.com.
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> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en.

>
> --
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[tanay bose]

Dear All,

This plant is indeed Hibiscus vitifolius or we can also say Kosteletzkya vitifolia from Malvaceae. Although the recent accepted name I hope is Fioria vitifolia. The name come from its Vitis like or we can say from the grape [Vitis vinifera /common grape vine/ Vitaceae] like leaf of it...

Regards

Tanay

--
Tanay Bose
+91(033) 25550676 (Resi)
9830439691(Mobile)
9674221362 (Mobile)

[Muthu Karthick]

Thank you all for the identification.

[tanay bose]

WELCOME MUTHU

TANAY

[Hemanth]

Tanay sir,

Can u please tell me how can one say if Hibiscus vitifolius, Kosteletezkya vitifolia and Fioria vitifolia are one and the same…I have been getting confused with scientific names…if they are same why there are different names..

 

--
Hemant G. Tripathi

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[Dinesh Valke]

Dear Hemanth,
Not sure of your query, whether it is about the validity of the synonymy among the 3 names OR is it that the synonyms are in far placed genera.
Not sure of answers from botanical perspective, but that these names are related to each other as synonyms, and Hibiscus vitifolius is the current accepted name.



Here are few links in this regard:

Fioria Gallery, at Malvaceae Info
... http://www.malvaceae.info/Genera/Fioria/gallery.html

Malvaceae of southern peninsular India: a taxonomic monograph By V. V. Sivarajan, A.K. Pradeep
... http://books.google.co.in/books?id=XhVI5BluzCUC&pg=PA74&lpg=PA74&dq=Fioria+vitifolia&source=bl&ots=aE_FfWvKdm&sig=XECOPt5Fyu7hdgqRg3HuOToNNqM&hl=en&ei=qHzMS6X6GoHCNdbRkM8F&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAUQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=Fioria%20vitifolia&f=false

Aluka
... http://www.aluka.org/action/showCompilationPage?doi=10.5555/AL.AP.COMPILATION.PLANT-NAME-SPECIES.HIBISCUS.VITIFOLIUS&tab=synonymy


Hoping to have not misunderstood your query.
Regards.

[tanay bose]

Dear Hemant Ji,

Firstly I will like to tell you that I am not at all comfortable with using suffix like Sir and all with my name, better off with simply Tanay. Hope you will keep my request and will proceed calling me by my name in coming conversations.

I will try to answer your question up to my merit and knowledge. ……

 

Fioria vitifolia (Linn.) Mattei, Bol. R. Orto Bot. Palermo. 2:71. 1916.

Hibiscus vitifolius Linn., Sp. Pl. 696. 1753. Mast. in Hook. f., Fl. Brit. Ind. 1:338. 1874; Borss. in Blumea 14:82. 1966; Stewart in Nasir & Ali, Ann. Cat. Vase. Pl. Pak. Kash. 480. 1972.

Kosteletzkya vitifolia (L.) M.R.Almeida & N.Patil, J. Bombay Nat. Hist. Soc. 93(1): 111. 1996.

 

Kosteletzkya vitifolia (L.) M.R.Almeida & N.Patil AND Hibiscus vitifolius Linn. are regarded as a synonym of Fioria vitifolia(Linn.) Mattei.

Hence Fioria vitifolia is the valid name for this particular plant.

My references are E-flora of Pakistan and ICBN Vienna Code 2005 (published in 2006).

 

Regards

Tanay

[tanay bose]

Dear Dinesh ji,

For your kind information I will like to bring it to your notice that according to "E-Flora of Pakistan" the recent valid name is Fioria vitifolia (Linn.) Mattei and Hibiscus vitifolius Linn. is regarded as its synonym. Please check from the following link

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250071289

 

Regards

Tanay

[Dinesh Valke]

... will stand corrected about the currency of name ... referred Aliuka where it mentions Hibiscus vitifolius L. subsp.vitifolius as current.
Regards.

[Dinesh Valke]

Did notice that eflora webpage ... but did not feel satisfied with no mention of Kosteletzkya vitifolia.... besides it classifies other names among Lower Taxon and Related Synonym(s).
Regards.

[tanay bose]

I will wait for other senior collegues to respond Dinesh ji .... I really need to know the valid name of this plant quit interesting investigation is going on thanks to Hemant Ji for pointing it out.

Tanay

On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Did notice that eflora webpage ... but did not feel satisfied with no mention of Kosteletzkya vitifolia.... besides it classifies other names among Lower Taxon and Related Synonym(s).
Regards.

On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:18 PM, tanay bose <tanay...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Dinesh ji,

For your kind information I will like to bring it to your notice that according to "E-Flora of Pakistan" the recent valid name is Fioria vitifolia (Linn.) Mattei and Hibiscus vitifolius Linn. is regarded as its synonym. Please check from the following link

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250071289

 

Regards

Tanay

--

Tanay Bose
+91(033) 25550676 (Resi)
9830439691(Mobile)
9674221362 (Mobile)

[Dinesh Valke]

... getting to know the latest name would be solution to our discussion, Tanay.
Not sure whether it is taking care of Hemanth's query.

[Hemanth]

Actually it’s a complex issue…seniors may contribute better

There are few people working in my lab but they are still in investigation process and are still to come out with correct interpretation..

Tanay ji I thought I might get some clue on it here…since last few months Fioria vitifolia is disturbing me…

There are interesting stories behind nomenclature of any sps u take…I am sure there wud be something coming out with Fioria if it is dug a bit more deeper…

 

Waiting for answers…

Thanks tanay ji and dinesh ji

 

--
Hemant G. Tripathi

 

From: Dinesh Valke [mailto:dinesh...@gmail.com]

Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 11:15 PM
To: tanay bose

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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[rashida atthar]

Came across this very valuable and interesting information in Dr. Almeida'a flora of Mah. vol I. Attaching scanned copies of description with Dr. Almeida's explanations and a line drawing of K.vitifolia. Hope this helps in resolving the ID and enhances the understanding of the nomenclature of this species.
 
regards,
Rashida.   

 

 

---

Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 22:26:42 +0530
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:32691] Re: Malvaceae for id 170410MK1
From: tanay...@gmail.com
To: dinesh...@gmail.com
CC: hemanth...@gmail.com; nmk...@gmail.com; indian...@googlegroups.com

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[tanay bose]

Dear Rashida Ji,

Dr. Almeida clearly states that Hibiscus vitifolius is a synonym of Kosteletzkya vitifolia (Writeup1.jpg). In eflora of Pakistan it has been stated that Hibiscus vitifolius is synonym of Fioria vitifolia. Then we can conclude that all this named are synonyms of each other resceptively. I searched a lot but could not find all this three names together in any website or literature ,always a permutation combination of two names can be found which is delimiting me from getting the recent valid name of the plant. Does anyone have any information regarding this, if yes kindly help to resolve the identification for this particular plant.

Regards

Tanay

[Dinesh Valke]

Tanay ... you may have missed this link : http://www.aluka.org/action/showCompilationPage?doi=10.5555/AL.AP.COMPILATION.PLANT-NAME-SPECIES.HIBISCUS.VITIFOLIUS&tab=synonymy ... it has all the names.
Regards.

[tanay bose]

Dear Dinesh ji,

Thank you very much .....I went to Aluka site with the page which has a herbarium specimen of the plant but hopefully missed this particular page thanks for you kind help then we can say that Hibiscus vitifolius L. in the valid name now. Thanks for all!!

 

Regards

Tanay

[Gurcharan Singh]

Dear Tanay

Although it appears that the three are synonyms, things are not very clear. Unfortunately Almeida & Patil, while giving this combination in JBNHS 93(1): 111, 1996, failed to give basionym, and as such the combination can't be considered as legitimate according to ICBN rules. The choice is between the other two Hibiscus vitifolius and Fioria vitifolia, although when recognising Fioria as a distinct genus Mattei again failed to give type of the genus, essential under the rules. It is not a simple priority issue, but a taxonomic decision whether you want to accept a broadly circumscribed Hibiscus, or leave it as paraphyletic and create smaller genera like Fiori. APG now advocates monophyletic taxa and as has been done by the abolition of monocots as distinct group in all recent phylogenetic classifications. In such cases it is safer to follow what has been done in the recent years.

If look at Fioria vitifolia, it has been recognised by eFlora of Pakistan (1979), USA (based on Loigier, H.A. 1994. Descriptive Flora of Puerto Rico and Adjacent Islands. Spermatophyta. Vols. 1-5. Editorial de la Universidad de Puerto Rico.), FloraBase: Western Australia (1996), Sivarajan & Pradeep (Malvaceae of Southern Penninsular India, 1996), 

Those who include Fioria under Hibiscus include Eflora of China (1994), GRIN (1985-verified, 2000 updated, ssp. lukei, 2003), African Plant Database (updated 10-4-2010), ARS Database (1985, 2000) and several others.

BUT THEN THERE IS A BIG CATCH. BOTH USDA DATABASE AND ITIS TREAT THEM AS DISTINCT RECOGNISED TAXA, HIBISCUS VITIFOLIUS COMMONLY KNOWN AS TRPICAL ROSE MALLOW AND PROVIDING PHOTOGRAPH FROM SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION AND FIORIA VITIFOLIA AS TROPICAL FANLEAF WITH ANOTHER PHOTOGRAPH FROM SAME. PICK YOUR CHOOSE AND GET MORE CONFUSED>

http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=FIVI2

http://www.plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=HIVI

The matter remains still unresolved for me!!!!!!!!

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[tanay bose]

Dear Gurcharan ji,

this is really confusing to the extreme level I am getting clueless .... If you get any more information please help me.

regards

tanay

[Gurcharan Singh]

If you look plants depicted at USDA Database the plant of Hibiscus vitifolius has much deeper and narrower lobes of leaf, whereas those of Fioria vitifolia much shallower and broader. If the two are distinct, then our plant fits more with Fioria vitifolia.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[tanay bose]

Yes sir right u r

the plant posted by Muthu has much broader leaves ..

then can i go with Fioria vitifolia?

Regards

Tanay

[Pardeshi S.]

Hello all
Check this all
it states Fioria vitifolia as current name

http://www.nhm.ac.uk/jdsml/research-curation/research/projects/linnaean-typification/list.dsml?Genusqtype=starts+with&Genus=Hibiscus&Speciesqtype=starts+with&Species=vitifolius&Varqtype=starts+with&Var=&Ref=&CGenusqtype=starts+with&CGenus=&CSpeciesqtype=starts+with&CSpecies=&CSspqtype=starts+with&CSsp=&CVarqtype=starts+with&CVar=&Family=&sort=Genus,Species

Regards
Satish Pardeshi

On Apr 20, 6:38 pm, Dinesh Valke <dinesh.va...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tanay ... you may have missed this link :http://www.aluka.org/action/showCompilationPage?doi=10.5555/AL.AP.COM......

> it has all the names.
> Regards.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 5:45 PM, tanay bose <tanaybos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Dear Rashida Ji,

> > Dr. Almeida clearly states that *Hibiscus vitifolius* is a synonym of *Kosteletzkya
> > vitifolia* (Writeup1.jpg). In eflora of Pakistan it has been stated that* Hibiscus
> > vitifolius* is synonym of *Fioria vitifolia*. Then we can conclude that

> > all this named are synonyms of each other resceptively. I searched a lot but
> > could not find all this three names together in any website or literature
> > ,always a permutation combination of two names can be found which is
> > delimiting me from getting the recent valid name of the plant. Does anyone
> > have any information regarding this, if yes kindly help to resolve the
> > identification for this particular plant.
> > Regards
> > Tanay
>

> > On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:29 PM, rashida atthar <rashidaatt...@hotmail.com

> > > wrote:
>
> >> Came across this very valuable and interesting information in Dr.
> >> Almeida'a flora of Mah. vol I. Attaching scanned copies of description with
> >> Dr. Almeida's explanations and a line drawing of K.vitifolia. Hope this
> >> helps in resolving the ID and enhances the understanding of the nomenclature
> >> of this species.
>
> >> regards,
> >> Rashida.
>

> >> ------------------------------

> >> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 22:26:42 +0530
> >> Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:32691] Re: Malvaceae for id 170410MK1
>

> >> From: tanaybos...@gmail.com
> >> To: dinesh.va...@gmail.com
> >> CC: hemanthtripa...@gmail.com; nmk....@gmail.com;
> >> indian...@googlegroups.com
>
> >> I will wait for other senior collegues to respond Dinesh ji .... I really
> >> need to know the valid name of this plant quit interesting investigation is
> >> going on thanks to Hemant Ji for pointing it out.
> >> Tanay
>

> >> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Dinesh Valke <dinesh.va...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >> Did notice that eflora webpage ... but did not feel satisfied with no
> >> mention of Kosteletzkya vitifolia.... besides it classifies other names
> >> among Lower Taxon and Related Synonym(s).
> >> Regards.
>

> >> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:18 PM, tanay bose <tanaybos...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >> Dear Dinesh ji,
> >> For your kind information I will like to bring it to your notice that

> >> according to "E-Flora of Pakistan" the recent valid name is *Fioria
> >> vitifolia* (Linn.) Mattei and *Hibiscus vitifolius* Linn. is regarded as

> >> its synonym. Please check from the following link
> >>http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250071289
>
> >> Regards
> >> Tanay
>
> >> --
> >> Tanay Bose
> >> +91(033) 25550676 (Resi)
> >> 9830439691(Mobile)
> >> 9674221362 (Mobile)
>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> "efloraofindia" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to indian...@googlegroups.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> >> indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com<indiantreepix%2Bunsubscribe@goog legroups.com>
> >> .

> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en.
>

> >> ------------------------------
> >> Invest your money wisely post Budget Sign up now.<http://news.in.msn.com/moneyspecial/>

[R. Vijayasankar]

As far as i understand, the erstwhile Hibiscus vitifolius was elevated as a new genus 'Fioria' owing to the winged nature of fruits. eflora of Pakistan recognized this while GRIN has not yet updated/recognized. Two subspecies are described in eflora of Pakistan: http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250071290

 

Parts densely stellate-pubescent and the leaves entire to shallowly 3-7-lobed .....Fioria vitifolia ssp. vulgaris (Brenan & Exell) S. Abedin

Parts sparsely pubescent and the leaves are deeply 3-7-lobed............................Fioria vitifolia L. ssp. vitifolia (the plant in Muthu's pictures match to this)

--
With regards

R. Vijayasankar
National Center for Natural Products Research,
The University of Mississippi,
Oxford, MS-38677, USA.