VoF Week: Primulaceae - Androsace mucronifolia Watt

Dr Pankaj Kumar

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Aug 25, 2012, 9:26:11 AM8/25/12

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Androsace mucronifolia Watt in J. Linn. Soc. 18:381. t. xiv B. 1882.

Family: Primulaceae

Distribution: E. Afghanistan, N.W. Himalaya, W. Tibet, W. China

Current pic taken on way to Hem Kunt Sahib.

Suresh Rana

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Aug 25, 2012, 10:07:07 AM8/25/12

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Very beautiful catch of the Androsace flowers Pankaj Sir

Warm regards

Suresh Rana

Gurcharan Singh

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Aug 25, 2012, 5:35:29 PM8/25/12

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Too good Pankaj ji

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Dr. Gurcharan Singh

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SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
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Suresh Rana

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chrischa...@btinternet.com

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Nov 8, 2016, 9:02:18 PM11/8/16

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I am confused by this. It certainly appears to be an Androsace rather than a Primula.

I can say with confidence that it is not Androsace mucronifolia - in fact the plant from VOF is not remotely similar to A.mucronifolia. This species is only

recorded from Aghanistan to Kashmir, so would not be expected in VOF anyhow.

The image does seem to match the posting named as Androsace garhwalica (Primula garhwalica). I am not familiar with this species. Clearly it has been named by Indian botanists. Could someone tell me the publication this species was described in and how it is distinguished from related species?

J.M. Garg

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Nov 8, 2016, 11:44:29 PM11/8/16

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Thanks, Chadwell ji

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J.M. Garg

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Nov 17, 2016, 7:38:51 AM11/17/16

to efloraofindia, Prashant awale, Dr. Pankaj Kumar, Dinesh Valke, Gurcharan Singh, chrischa...@btinternet.com, D.S Rawat

Forwarding again for Id assistance please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

I am confused by this. It certainly appears to be an Androsace rather than a Primula.

I can say with confidence that it is not Androsace mucronifolia - in fact the plant from VOF is not remotely similar to A.mucronifolia. This species is only

recorded from Aghanistan to Kashmir, so would not be expected in VOF anyhow.

The image does seem to match the posting named as Androsace garhwalica (Primula garhwalica). I am not familiar with this species. Clearly it has been named by Indian botanists. Could someone tell me the publication this species was described in and how it is distinguished from related species? --

From Chris Chadwell ji.

See more discussions in another thread at VOF Week: : Androsace mucronifolia? en-route Hemkund sahib

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia.

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images).

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C CHADWELL

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Nov 17, 2016, 8:40:21 AM11/17/16

to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Prashant awale, Dr. Pankaj Kumar, Dinesh Valke, Gurcharan Singh, D.S Rawat

Dr Rawat has kindly sent me the description of Androsace garwhalicum. The photos taken in the

VoF are definitely not A.mucronifolia.

We are currently checking through Androsaces recorded from India. There are quite a number of taxa

where confusion/uncertainty exists. I am in agreement with Dr Nasir in 'Primulaceae' (Flora of Pakistan) that

past records for this A.globifera in "the Punjab" are misidentifications. One of the specimens seems to be

Androsace baltistanica whilst the other is likely to prove to be. I am currently attempting to familiarise

myself with the latter species and how it is distinguished from similar species in Ladakh. A.baltistanica was

not know to Stewart in his 'Annotated Catalogue...'

I do not understand on what basis Androsace garwhalicum has become a Primula! Is there DNA

or other non-morphological evidence to support this new combination? It looks like an Androsace to me.....

I am attempting to familiarise myself with this species and how to distinguish it from similar species and work

out which species it is likely to have been mistaken for in the past. In the description Dr Rawat sent there is a key

distinguishing it from A.selagini (which I have not heard of) which is apparently another new name (though no

author is given) for A.selago Hook.f. & Thoms.

Since A.selago is not recorded for Uttarakhand or indeed Nepal though is found in Bhutan, Sikkim & Chumbi,

it would have been helpful if the authors had told us how to distinguish this new species from those already

recorded from the region such as A.globifera, which at present I think it the most likely species it was mistaken

for in the past. Given the challenges this genus present and lack of good reference descriptions such information

would have been useful for all those concerned.

According to 'Flora of Bhutan' (Vol 2 Part 2, 1999) Grierson & Long felt that A.selago and A.tapete are variable species

which appear to intergrade. Further research is needed on their distinction. Treatment as varieties may be more

appropriate.

Please can group members look out for an make a special effort to photograph Androsaces in the years to come

both from higher and lower altitudes as knowing where (geographically-speaking) at what altitude and in which

habitats, each species is found, represents meaningful information - as well as helping work out abundance (or

not). Good close-ups of flowers (incl. petals & sepals) along with foliage will contribute towards us being able to

distinguish between similar species with greater certainty.

I personally, would be particularly pleased to view good close-ups of Androsaces from Ladakh to help me become

clearer about the differences between A.baltistanica, A.robusta and A.muscoidea in that region. I am reasonably clear

about A.mucronifolia, A.sempervivoides, A.septentrionalis & A.thomsonii which are also recorded from Ladakh.

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>; Prashant awale <pka...@gmail.com>; Dr. Pankaj Kumar <sahani...@gmail.com>; Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com>; Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>; chrischa...@btinternet.com; D.S Rawat <drdsrawat...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, 17 November 2016, 12:38
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:126083] VoF Week: Primulaceae - Androsace mucronifolia Watt

J.M. Garg

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Nov 17, 2016, 11:49:37 PM11/17/16

to C CHADWELL, efloraofindia, Prashant awale, Dr. Pankaj Kumar, Dinesh Valke, Gurcharan Singh, D.S Rawat

Thanks, Chadwell ji.

To me it appears close to Androsace globifera as per the following images (though I may or may not be correct):

http://www.phytoimages.siu.edu/imgs/Cusman1/r/Primulaceae_Androsace_globifera_93803.html

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Androsace_globifera_3.JPG

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androsace_globifera#/media/File:Androsace_globifera.jpg

https://www.nargs.org/plant/androsace-globifera

http://phytoimages.siu.edu/imgs/Cusman1/r/Primulaceae_Androsace_globifera_70529.html

http://garden.org/plants/view/133923/Rock-Jasmine-Androsace-globifera/

http://kallima.sk/species.php?plant=51

To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>; Prashant awale <pka...@gmail.com>; Dr. Pankaj Kumar <sahani...@gmail.com>; Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com>; Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>; chrischadwell261@btinternet.com; D.S Rawat <drdsrawat...@gmail.com>

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C CHADWELL

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Nov 23, 2016, 4:56:18 PM11/23/16

to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Prashant awale, Dr. Pankaj Kumar, Dinesh Valke, Gurcharan Singh, D.S Rawat

Thought best to collect my thoughts before responding further.

The problem with the links provided (and most from specialist nurseries, growers and the like) is that such people (in good faith mostly - though it is in the commercial interest of nurseries to list as many different species & cultivars as possible, as there are collectors of all available examples of favoured genera e.g. Androsace, Primula, Iris, Meconopsis, Geranium etc.). They will buy if the species name or cultivar name is different to what they already have (or think they have).

The problem is that hardly any of those running nurseries, websites (even the top horticulturists in the UK) have any proper training in how to identify plants - to be fair, often few, if any reference books or other resources exist. They rely on the name something arrived at.

The result is, as my own informal research suggests, a high proportion of plants are misidentified in cultivation (just as a significant proportion of plants seen during surveys and trips to the Himalaya are misidentified). For plants under names of species found in the Himalaya (some plants grow in the Himalaya and other regions of the world, so the example may not have originated in the Himalaya) I judge at least 50% to be misidentified (and I do not mean because they are hybrids, another complication in cultivation) - I have checked plants from nurseries and sources of seed, commercial and botanic garden index semina.

Thus, we cannot expect the situation with Androsace in cultivation to be any different.

Of the links provided, the final two do not come close to the others and in my opinion are not Androsace globifera.

As to the identity of the plant photographed in VoF - this, as I have already stated is definitely not A.mucronifolia. It might be A,globifera but some sources say it should have flower-stalks (others like 'Flowers of Himalaya' say short-stalked or stalkless. It is the most likely candidate.

There has long been confusion with the mat and cushion-forming species.

Interestingly, the image of A,globifera in 'Flowers of the Himalaya' shows flowers with darker central parts, as does the much larger photo of this species in 'Portraits of Himalayan Flowers' (T.Yoshida), along with one of the images in his 'Himalayan Plants Illustrated'.

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

To: C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>; Prashant awale <pka...@gmail.com>; Dr. Pankaj Kumar <sahani...@gmail.com>; Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com>; Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>; D.S Rawat <drdsrawat...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, 18 November 2016, 4:49
Subject: Re: Fwd: [efloraofindia:256943] VoF Week: Primulaceae - Androsace mucronifolia Watt

To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups. com>; Prashant awale <pka...@gmail.com>; Dr. Pankaj Kumar <sahani...@gmail.com>; Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com>; Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>; chrischadwell261@btinternet. com; D.S Rawat <drdsrawat...@gmail.com>

C CHADWELL

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Nov 23, 2016, 5:00:09 PM11/23/16