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OZmic
May 14, 2012, 3:15:41 PM5/14/12
to indian...@googlegroups.com
Dear all,
It is hard to choose where to start for there is not really a beginning and no end in sight. Chinese people have a saying "Every long journey starts with a tiny step".
So here is first what has been the big revelation for me. Hidden behind some links in one of Dinesh's postings was what some of you had proposed / wished for and that I was also waiting for. The initial building of an amazing database called "Names of Plants in India". It does not display the basic info for such a site so a review cannot yet be written about it. I have written one nevertheless that will appear online when I have all the details. It is however fully operational and can be used. I warmly invite you to consult it ... and yes it has got photos! The URL is < https://sites.google.com/site/indiannamesofplants/ >.
Now just a couple of entries calling for further feedback from you all.
We all know that the name "Mosambi" is used for other taxa (plants). We will come back to it when we treat these species. I believe the following to be the original vernacular.
Citrus × sinensis (L.) Osbeck 'Mosambi'
BENGALI : মোসাম্বি (Mōsāmbi).
ENGLISH : Mosambi orange, Mosambique orange.
HINDI : मौसम्बी Mausambee, मोसम्बी Mōsambī , मोसाम्बी Mōsāmbī, मोज़ाम्बि Mōzāmbi
KANNADA : ಮೊಸಂಬಿ ಹಣ್ಣು Mosambi hannu ?
MARATHI : मोसंबी Mosambi.
TAMIL : சாத்துக்குடி Cāttukkuṭi ?
TELUGU : బత్తాయి పండు Battāyi paṇḍu.
"Fruit medium-large, slightly oblate to globose or broadly obovoid; areolar ring regularly shallow; moderately seedy. Color light yellow to pale orange at maturity. Rind medium-thick; surface moderately to roughly pebbled, and faintly striped with narrow, longitudinal grooves and ridges. Flesh color straw-yellow; somewhat firm, juicy; flavor insipid because of very low acidity. Early in maturity.
This very distinctive variety is of unknown origin, but the name, of which there are numerous spellings, suggests that it was taken from Mozambique, East Africa, to India, presumably by the Portuguese. The brown color of the chalazal spot indicates that it does not belong to the sugar orange group, as some have assumed, but that it is a low acid orange, the acidity of which is further reduced by the Indian climate and the rough lemon rootstock on which it is grown.
Mosambi is highly popular in central India and is probably the most important orange variety of that country. According to Gandhi (1956), it is grown principally in the Bombay Deccan where total plantings were reported to be about 20,000 acres."R. W. Hodgson in Chapter 4 of Horticultutal Varieties of Citrus.
What we need now is validation of those names - spelling... and a photo or two, and some clarification.
If this is the Batavian orange, Cattukkuti orange, Loose-jacket orange, Sylhet orange, can it be బత్తాయి Battāyi, బత్తాయి నరింమ్జాపండు (Battāyi narimmjāpaṇḍu) Battāyi nāriṃzapaṇḍu ? We know it is not sweet but is it bitter at all ? could it be called a mandarine ?
Citrus × sinensis (L.) Osbeck 'Malta'
ENGLISH : Malta orange.
HINDI : माल्टा Malta (mālṭā). -> correct spelling ?
It may be difficult to find all these names in dictionaries but there is enough expertise in the group to work out what is correct and to validate it.
Thanks
It is hard to choose where to start for there is not really a beginning and no end in sight. Chinese people have a saying "Every long journey starts with a tiny step".
So here is first what has been the big revelation for me. Hidden behind some links in one of Dinesh's postings was what some of you had proposed / wished for and that I was also waiting for. The initial building of an amazing database called "Names of Plants in India". It does not display the basic info for such a site so a review cannot yet be written about it. I have written one nevertheless that will appear online when I have all the details. It is however fully operational and can be used. I warmly invite you to consult it ... and yes it has got photos! The URL is < https://sites.google.com/site/indiannamesofplants/ >.
Now just a couple of entries calling for further feedback from you all.
We all know that the name "Mosambi" is used for other taxa (plants). We will come back to it when we treat these species. I believe the following to be the original vernacular.
Citrus × sinensis (L.) Osbeck 'Mosambi'
BENGALI : মোসাম্বি (Mōsāmbi).
ENGLISH : Mosambi orange, Mosambique orange.
HINDI : मौसम्बी Mausambee, मोसम्बी Mōsambī , मोसाम्बी Mōsāmbī, मोज़ाम्बि Mōzāmbi
KANNADA : ಮೊಸಂಬಿ ಹಣ್ಣು Mosambi hannu ?
MARATHI : मोसंबी Mosambi.
TAMIL : சாத்துக்குடி Cāttukkuṭi ?
TELUGU : బత్తాయి పండు Battāyi paṇḍu.
"Fruit medium-large, slightly oblate to globose or broadly obovoid; areolar ring regularly shallow; moderately seedy. Color light yellow to pale orange at maturity. Rind medium-thick; surface moderately to roughly pebbled, and faintly striped with narrow, longitudinal grooves and ridges. Flesh color straw-yellow; somewhat firm, juicy; flavor insipid because of very low acidity. Early in maturity.
This very distinctive variety is of unknown origin, but the name, of which there are numerous spellings, suggests that it was taken from Mozambique, East Africa, to India, presumably by the Portuguese. The brown color of the chalazal spot indicates that it does not belong to the sugar orange group, as some have assumed, but that it is a low acid orange, the acidity of which is further reduced by the Indian climate and the rough lemon rootstock on which it is grown.
Mosambi is highly popular in central India and is probably the most important orange variety of that country. According to Gandhi (1956), it is grown principally in the Bombay Deccan where total plantings were reported to be about 20,000 acres."R. W. Hodgson in Chapter 4 of Horticultutal Varieties of Citrus.
What we need now is validation of those names - spelling... and a photo or two, and some clarification.
If this is the Batavian orange, Cattukkuti orange, Loose-jacket orange, Sylhet orange, can it be బత్తాయి Battāyi, బత్తాయి నరింమ్జాపండు (Battāyi narimmjāpaṇḍu) Battāyi nāriṃzapaṇḍu ? We know it is not sweet but is it bitter at all ? could it be called a mandarine ?
Citrus × sinensis (L.) Osbeck 'Malta'
ENGLISH : Malta orange.
HINDI : माल्टा Malta (mālṭā). -> correct spelling ?
It may be difficult to find all these names in dictionaries but there is enough expertise in the group to work out what is correct and to validate it.
Thanks
Gurcharan Singh
May 14, 2012, 11:03:57 PM5/14/12
to OZmic, indian...@googlegroups.com
Thanks dear Mr. Porcher for useful information
--
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089
--
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired Associate ProfessorSGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089
ushadi Micromini
May 15, 2012, 12:48:15 AM5/15/12
to Gurcharan Singh, OZmic, indian...@googlegroups.com
Good start, Dr Porcher
I look forward to all that you'll tell us
Usha di
=====--
Usha di
===========
I look forward to all that you'll tell us
Usha di
=====
Usha di
===========
Mahadeswara
May 15, 2012, 6:46:14 AM5/15/12
to indian...@googlegroups.com, Vijayasankar
Ozmic ji,
One observation. In my view the English transliteration of சாத்துக்குடி is Saattukudi or Sāttukudi. Tamil speaking members in the group ( Dr. Vijayasankarraman, Dr. Muthikarthik, etc.) may please comment on my observation.
One observation. In my view the English transliteration of சாத்துக்குடி is Saattukudi or Sāttukudi. Tamil speaking members in the group ( Dr. Vijayasankarraman, Dr. Muthikarthik, etc.) may please comment on my observation.
Dr. M. K. Pathak
May 15, 2012, 7:26:06 AM5/15/12
to indian...@googlegroups.com
Dear Sir,
Congratulations for taking up this work.
With regards and best wishes
M.K.Pathak
On Tuesday, May 15, 2012 12:45:41 AM UTC+5:30, OZmic wrote:
Congratulations for taking up this work.
With regards and best wishes
M.K.Pathak
On Tuesday, May 15, 2012 12:45:41 AM UTC+5:30, OZmic wrote:
Vijayasankar
May 16, 2012, 6:43:14 PM5/16/12
to Mahadeswara, indian...@googlegroups.com
Swamy ji,
In Tamil, ச is correctly pronounced 'cha', and ஸ as 'sa'. http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Tamil/Tamil_Script
So, for சாத்துக்குடி, 'chattukkudi' is the correct spelling. For 'Sattukudi' it has to be written as 'ஸாத்துக்குடி' which is not the case here.
Thank you
National Center for Natural Products Research
University of Mississippi
In Tamil, ச is correctly pronounced 'cha', and ஸ as 'sa'. http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Tamil/Tamil_Script
So, for சாத்துக்குடி, 'chattukkudi' is the correct spelling. For 'Sattukudi' it has to be written as 'ஸாத்துக்குடி' which is not the case here.
Thank you
Regards
Vijayasankar RamanNational Center for Natural Products Research
University of Mississippi
OZmic
May 20, 2012, 5:22:59 PM5/20/12
to indian...@googlegroups.com, Mahadeswara
Thanks Dr. Vijayasankarraman, Dr. Muthikarthik, and Vijayasankar ji.
I have posted (new) the amended list of names for Mosambi, taking into account all the answers in this posting. Please do not be offended when I say that there is no right or wrong answer. Some transcriptions are absolutely more correct than all the others. In this case Chattukkudi is IT. However, as we keep all old and invalid botanical synonyms matched to the correct preferred botanical name for ref. purposes and for tracking down errors made in the past, we have to do a similar thing with vernacular names. If anyone has to be blamed it is the authors who have been using transcriptions only and all the foreigners who have taken these as gospel and not always copied those names correctly. Modern devices such as converters / transliterators can help greatly in recovering scripted names but they can also confused the issues because they do not use the same standards of transliteration. Hence the need for us all to sort all these names. Sorry for the long explanation.
I have posted (new) the amended list of names for Mosambi, taking into account all the answers in this posting. Please do not be offended when I say that there is no right or wrong answer. Some transcriptions are absolutely more correct than all the others. In this case Chattukkudi is IT. However, as we keep all old and invalid botanical synonyms matched to the correct preferred botanical name for ref. purposes and for tracking down errors made in the past, we have to do a similar thing with vernacular names. If anyone has to be blamed it is the authors who have been using transcriptions only and all the foreigners who have taken these as gospel and not always copied those names correctly. Modern devices such as converters / transliterators can help greatly in recovering scripted names but they can also confused the issues because they do not use the same standards of transliteration. Hence the need for us all to sort all these names. Sorry for the long explanation.
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