VoF Week :: DV :: 02 AUG 12 - 0338 :: small herb on rock at Valley of Flowers

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Dinesh Valke

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Aug 31, 2012, 2:10:16 PM8/31/12
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Valley of Flowers
2 AUG 12
Valley of Flowers ... about 9900 ft
Dear friends, ID please.
Habitat: growing on rock
Habit: small herb, about 15 - 40 cm high; flower about 3 - 4 mm across


P1020382

P1020385   P1020387   P1020388
Regards.
Dinesh

Gurcharan Singh

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Aug 31, 2012, 2:46:35 PM8/31/12
to Dinesh Valke, efloraofindia
Sibbaldia cuneata I hope


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089


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Dinesh Valke

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Aug 31, 2012, 2:57:27 PM8/31/12
to Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia
Thank you very much Gurcharan ji for the probable ID.
Regards.
Dinesh

Gurcharan Singh

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Aug 31, 2012, 3:10:54 PM8/31/12
to Dinesh Valke, efloraofindia
Now correctly known as Sibbaldia procumbens


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

Dinesh Valke

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Aug 31, 2012, 3:16:41 PM8/31/12
to Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia
Many thanks Gurcharan ji.
At The Plants List, found these are being treated as separate species: Sibbaldia procumbens L. and Sibbaldia cuneata Hornem. ex Kuntze
Regards.
Dinesh

Gurcharan Singh

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Aug 31, 2012, 6:08:56 PM8/31/12
to Dinesh Valke, efloraofindia
Dinesh ji
It would be interesting to resolve this mystery. Flora of British India records Potentilla sibbalii Hallier.f  with following synonyms:
1. Potentilla sibbaldii Clairv
2. Potentilla sibbaldia Greiss.
3. Sibbaldia procumbens L.
4. Sibbaldia parviflora Willd.
5. Sibbaldia cuneata Edgew.
6. Sibbaldia cuneata Kunze

As it seems these are now considered under two species

1. Sibbaldia procumbens L.       with synonyms Potentilla sibbaldia Greiss. , Potentilla sibbaldii Hallier.f., 

2. Sibbaldia cuneata Hornem ex Kunze



(Sibbaldia parviflora Willd. unresolved and Sibbaldia cuneata Edgew. not mentioned (in Fl. China or the Plant List) except as synonym of S. procumbens in Flora of Pakistan 

Both species are described in Flora of China and differ as under:

S. procumbens: Petals shorter than sepals; floweringt stems prostrate or ascending, 4-30 cm tall; petiole pilose; flowers 4-6 mm in diam.

S. cuneata: Petals equal or longer than sepals; flowering stems erect or ascending; 5-14 cm tall; petiole appressed pilose; flowers 5–7 mm in diam. 

Perhaps close up of flower can help resolve.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089


Dinesh Valke

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Sep 1, 2012, 2:31:36 AM9/1/12
to Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia
Thank you very much Gurcharan ji for digging into these Sibbaldia.
Attaching cropped pictures showing out-of-focus area.

My recollection:
Could see 2 plants with flowering stems ascending.
 1) about 15 cm max.
 2) about 30 - 40 cm
The flower about 4 mm; looks lesser than sepals in most of the instances.
I do not know about pilose OR appressed pilose petioles. Not sure if it can be made out in these views.


Sibbaldia ¿ cuneata / procumbens ?

Sibbaldia ¿ cuneata / procumbens ?

Prashant Awale

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Sep 1, 2012, 5:06:00 AM9/1/12
to Dinesh Valke, Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia
Dear Dinesh,
I had also uploaded same plant. The petals are longer than the sepals.
Regards
Prashant

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Dinesh Valke

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Sep 1, 2012, 5:20:16 AM9/1/12
to Prashant Awale, Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia
Dear Prashant, I saw your upload at https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/5WZGkGM5IG0/LKL1NxdUy2YJ
To me, when I see them in profile view, most of them have the green sepals higher than the yellow petals.
Top views of the flowers give an illusion that the yellow petals are longer.
Will wait for comment(s).
Regards.
Dinesh

Dinesh Valke

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Sep 1, 2012, 7:48:26 AM9/1/12
to Prashant Awale, Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia
Dear Gurcharan ji and Prashant, referencing Keshava Murthy's VoF book, Prashant's ID of Sibbaldia parviflora agrees with my plant.
As you have observed, it could be a synonym of Sibbaldia procumbens as put in Flora of Pakistan.
Many thanks to you both for the ID.
Regards.
Dinesh

Tabish

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Sep 1, 2012, 10:53:49 AM9/1/12
to indian...@googlegroups.com
This should be Sibbaldia cuneata  Hornem. ex Kuntze
Sibbaldia parviflora Edgw. is a synonym.

Sibbaldia procumbens L. is not an Indian plant. The representation at Flora of Pakistan probably needs revision.

  - Tabish

Dinesh Valke

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Sep 1, 2012, 11:03:02 AM9/1/12
to Tabish, indian...@googlegroups.com
Thank you very much Tabish for the clarity.
Regards.
Dinesh


  - Tabish

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Gurcharan Singh

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Sep 1, 2012, 11:44:58 AM9/1/12
to Dinesh Valke, Tabish, indian...@googlegroups.com
Who knows we may have both in Himalayas. The two plants uploaded cropped by Dinesh ji look definitely different, first suggestive of Sibbaldia cuneata and second with taller habit and shorter petals S. procumbens

Perhaps we need to keep our eyes open when we go to alpine Himalayas next time, important in light of confusion in literature.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

--
 
 
 



Dinesh Valke

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Sep 1, 2012, 12:33:07 PM9/1/12
to Gurcharan Singh, Tabish, indian...@googlegroups.com
Gurcharan ji,
Many thanks for your clarification regarding possibility of both species distributed in the Himalaya.

I may have not properly expressed when I wrote:
...................

Could see 2 plants with flowering stems ascending.
 1) about 15 cm max.
 2) about 30 - 40 cm
...................

Both these plants are seen on the same rock in the last photo, put here for quick look;

Sibbaldia cuneata

Gurcharan Singh

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Sep 1, 2012, 1:41:31 PM9/1/12
to Dinesh Valke, Tabish, indian...@googlegroups.com
No Dinesh ji
You only give me the idea and the proof.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

J.M. Garg

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Oct 1, 2015, 8:16:00 AM10/1/15
to efloraofindia, Dinesh Valke, Tabish Qureshi, Gurcharan Singh
"Should be better identified as S. parviflora
notice petals shorter than calyx, epicalyx shorter than calyx and spreading hairy flowers especially calyx
Dr. Gurcharan Singh"


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With regards,
J.M.Garg

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Dinesh Valke

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Oct 1, 2015, 8:18:28 AM10/1/15
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Tabish Qureshi, Gurcharan Singh
Thanks Garg ji; will update my notes at flickr soon.
Regards.
Dinesh
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