Hooghly Today : Momordica subangulata ssp. renigera ?

[surajit koley]

This plant is growing beside TULSI-MANCH.

According to owner it gives fruits every year.

I didn't have much time, but a short scan gave me no glands on petiole.

Neither i could examine the flower or bract.

It is edible as vegetable.

The KAAKROL in the market often grows bigger than this size.

Thank you

Regards

[Gurcharan Singh]

I think M. cochinchinensis

petals are acute at tip

fruit is rounded at tip not gradually narrowed

tubercles are are even distributed.

Please note down the size of mature fruit to clinch the issue.

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

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[surajit koley]

Good morning Sir

This is getting more and more interesting. While flower and fruit tubercles suggest this is M. cochinchinensis (M. mixta Roxb. in FI), glands are apparently missing.

I am keeping a note and may find more plants nearfuture.

Thank you

Regards

surajit

[Gurcharan Singh]

Yes Surajit this confusion has to be resolved. Most websites are more confused than us. It would help a lot if in next upload you could place fruits of this plant as well as kakrol (better one that is least handled, as spines break during handling) from market. Could you please send me a high resolution image of kakrol from market to my personal email id?. Also of mature fruit of this plant.

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[surajit koley]

Good evening Sir

Kakrol in our market yet to appear. I searched this morning. I have been told, about a fortnight ago, that the plants in the fields have just started growing.

I have information of two more plants, near the houses of my colleagues. i will visit them.

I certainly will take photos, as much details as i can find, and send you high resolution ones.

Thank you very much.

Regards

surajit

[J.M. Garg]

Finally concluded as M. subangulata subsp. renigera as per discussions in another thread.

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[Vijayasankar]

I think this is M. cochinchinensis, too.

I remember seeing this species in Gujarat. The fruits are nearly spherical, of a cricket ball size, and the pulp is reddish orange when ripe.

The fruits in the posted pictures may be young and unripe.

 

Regards 

 

Vijayasankar Raman
National Center for Natural Products Research
University of Mississippi

[Gurcharan Singh]

Vijayasankar ji

There should be no doubt about this after real M. cochinchinensis was found by  Surajit ji in the thread linked below

I already had photographs with me (rather purchased online) of semimature yellow and red mature fruit.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/indiantreepix/Kakrol/indiantreepix/lSutUfvKQ5I/yCA9HJQrYYkJ

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[surajit koley]

Sir,

I write a few more points, besdies the keys already discussed in various threads, that i observed in the two species -

1) leaves are lobed in M. cochinchinensis, unlike M. subangulata var. renigera

2) lamina is glabrous on both sides in M. cochinchinensis, while it is slightly scabrous in the other

3) spines on fruits are different and inter spacing differs (already discussed in another thread)

4) we cut and ate both species, green fruits are rather hard in cochinchinensis and slightly bitter tasted, while it is not at all bitter in renigera

I am attaching seed photos of M. cochinchinensis ( tallies with the photo in pdf - http://www.currentscience.ac.in/Volumes/103/02/0178.pdf), i will take photographs of entire seed of M. subangulata var. renigera.

Thank you

Regards

surajit

[Vijayasankar]

Great! Thanks Surajit ji for the useful descriptions and pictures! eFI is getting enriched with such diagnostic details.

 

Regards 

 

Vijayasankar Raman
National Center for Natural Products Research
University of Mississippi

[Ritesh Kumar Choudhary]

Wonderful discussion! Thanks goes to Surajit ji, Gurcharan sir and Dr. Vijay.

Hats off to all of you!

Ritesh.

[surajit koley]

Good morning Vijayasankar Ji

I should add that the leaf features i have mentioned are based on mature leaves of M. subangulata ssp. renigera and newly formed leaves on M. cochinchinensis seedling.

I still do not know how the entire seed of M. subangulata ssp. renigera looks like. Page 6 of http://www.currentscience.ac.in/Volumes/103/02/0178.pdf document shows seed of M. cochinchinensis and M. charantia.

Thank you very much.

Regards,

surajit

[surajitkoley]

Good morning Ritesh Ji

The entire credit goes to eFI, led by Gurcharan Sir, in this thead.

Thank you very much :)

Regards

surajit

[surajit koley]

Sir,

Attaching photographs of seeds of KAKROL which are sold in markets. They do not sell ripe fruits.

Thank you

Regards

surajit

[surajit koley]

Sir,

Attaching photo of seeds of the very same plant which i found beside the TULSI-MUNCH ( the 1st set of photographs in this thread).

Thank you

Regards

surajit

[Gurcharan Singh]

Nice ones Surajit ji

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[surajit koley]

Thank you very much Sir, i wanted to see if there is any difference between the species sold in the markets and the one this thread started with.

Regards,

surajit