Hooghly Today : Momordica subangulata ssp. renigera ?

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surajit koley

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Jun 15, 2013, 12:21:44 PM6/15/13
to efloraofindia
This plant is growing beside TULSI-MANCH.
According to owner it gives fruits every year.
I didn't have much time, but a short scan gave me no glands on petiole.
Neither i could examine the flower or bract.
It is edible as vegetable.
The KAAKROL in the market often grows bigger than this size.

Thank you
Regards


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Gurcharan Singh

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Jun 15, 2013, 10:52:44 PM6/15/13
to surajit koley, efloraofindia
I think M. cochinchinensis
petals are acute at tip
fruit is rounded at tip not gradually narrowed
tubercles are are even distributed.
Please note down the size of mature fruit to clinch the issue.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089


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surajit koley

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Jun 16, 2013, 1:41:28 AM6/16/13
to Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia
Good morning Sir

This is getting more and more interesting. While flower and fruit tubercles suggest this is M. cochinchinensis (M. mixta Roxb. in FI), glands are apparently missing.

I am keeping a note and may find more plants nearfuture.

Thank you
Regards
surajit

Gurcharan Singh

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Jun 16, 2013, 3:53:09 AM6/16/13
to surajit koley, efloraofindia
Yes Surajit this confusion has to be resolved. Most websites are more confused than us. It would help a lot if in next upload you could place fruits of this plant as well as kakrol (better one that is least handled, as spines break during handling) from market. Could you please send me a high resolution image of kakrol from market to my personal email id?. Also of mature fruit of this plant.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

surajit koley

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Jun 16, 2013, 9:36:35 AM6/16/13
to Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia
Good evening Sir

Kakrol in our market yet to appear. I searched this morning. I have been told, about a fortnight ago, that the plants in the fields have just started growing.
I have information of two more plants, near the houses of my colleagues. i will visit them.
I certainly will take photos, as much details as i can find, and send you high resolution ones.

Thank you very much.

Regards
surajit

J.M. Garg

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Jul 2, 2013, 2:42:56 AM7/2/13
to efloraofindia, Ajmal Ali, arunk...@botany.du.ac.in, ren...@lmu.de, Vijayasankar Raman, surajit koley, Gurcharan Singh
Finally concluded as M. subangulata subsp. renigera as per discussions in another thread.


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Vijayasankar

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Jul 2, 2013, 10:33:24 AM7/2/13
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Ajmal Ali, arunk...@botany.du.ac.in, ren...@lmu.de, surajit koley, Gurcharan Singh
I think this is M. cochinchinensis, too.
I remember seeing this species in Gujarat. The fruits are nearly spherical, of a cricket ball size, and the pulp is reddish orange when ripe.
The fruits in the posted pictures may be young and unripe.

 
Regards 
 
Vijayasankar Raman
National Center for Natural Products Research
University of Mississippi

Gurcharan Singh

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Jul 2, 2013, 11:00:51 AM7/2/13
to Vijayasankar, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Ajmal Ali, arunk...@botany.du.ac.in, ren...@lmu.de, surajit koley
Vijayasankar ji
There should be no doubt about this after real M. cochinchinensis was found by  Surajit ji in the thread linked below
I already had photographs with me (rather purchased online) of semimature yellow and red mature fruit.




-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

surajit koley

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Jul 2, 2013, 1:17:03 PM7/2/13
to Gurcharan Singh, Vijayasankar, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Ajmal Ali, arunk...@botany.du.ac.in, ren...@lmu.de
Sir,

I write a few more points, besdies the keys already discussed in various threads, that i observed in the two species -
1) leaves are lobed in M. cochinchinensis, unlike M. subangulata var. renigera
2) lamina is glabrous on both sides in M. cochinchinensis, while it is slightly scabrous in the other
3) spines on fruits are different and inter spacing differs (already discussed in another thread)
4) we cut and ate both species, green fruits are rather hard in cochinchinensis and slightly bitter tasted, while it is not at all bitter in renigera

I am attaching seed photos of M. cochinchinensis ( tallies with the photo in pdf - http://www.currentscience.ac.in/Volumes/103/02/0178.pdf), i will take photographs of entire seed of M. subangulata var. renigera.

Thank you
Regards
surajit
Momordica cochinchinensis.jpg
Momordica cochinchinensis2.jpg
Momordica cochinchinensis3.jpg

Vijayasankar

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Jul 2, 2013, 2:48:23 PM7/2/13
to surajit koley, Gurcharan Singh, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Ajmal Ali, arunk...@botany.du.ac.in, Susanne Renner
Great! Thanks Surajit ji for the useful descriptions and pictures! eFI is getting enriched with such diagnostic details.

 
Regards 
 
Vijayasankar Raman
National Center for Natural Products Research
University of Mississippi


Ritesh Kumar Choudhary

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Jul 2, 2013, 9:00:17 PM7/2/13
to indian...@googlegroups.com
Wonderful discussion! Thanks goes to Surajit ji, Gurcharan sir and Dr. Vijay.

Hats off to all of you!

Ritesh.

surajit koley

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Jul 2, 2013, 9:53:21 PM7/2/13
to Vijayasankar, Gurcharan Singh, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Ajmal Ali, arunk...@botany.du.ac.in, Susanne Renner
Good morning Vijayasankar Ji

I should add that the leaf features i have mentioned are based on mature leaves of M. subangulata ssp. renigera and newly formed leaves on M. cochinchinensis seedling.

I still do not know how the entire seed of M. subangulata ssp. renigera looks like. Page 6 of http://www.currentscience.ac.in/Volumes/103/02/0178.pdf document shows seed of M. cochinchinensis and M. charantia.

Thank you very much.

Regards,

surajit

surajitkoley

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Jul 2, 2013, 10:24:27 PM7/2/13
to indian...@googlegroups.com, Ritesh Kumar Choudhary
Good morning Ritesh Ji

The entire credit goes to eFI, led by Gurcharan Sir, in this thead.

Thank you very much :)

Regards

surajit

surajit koley

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Jul 3, 2013, 1:56:31 PM7/3/13
to Gurcharan Singh, Vijayasankar, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Ajmal Ali, arunk...@botany.du.ac.in, ren...@lmu.de
Sir,

Attaching photographs of seeds of KAKROL which are sold in markets. They do not sell ripe fruits.

Thank you
Regards
surajit
KAKROL_in_market_01.jpg
KAKROL_in_market_02.jpg

surajit koley

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Jul 4, 2013, 12:44:53 PM7/4/13
to Gurcharan Singh, Vijayasankar, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Ajmal Ali, arunk...@botany.du.ac.in, ren...@lmu.de
Sir,

Attaching photo of seeds of the very same plant which i found beside the TULSI-MUNCH ( the 1st set of photographs in this thread).

Thank you
Regards
surajit
M_subangulata_ssp_renigera_P1040813.jpg

Gurcharan Singh

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Jul 4, 2013, 12:51:37 PM7/4/13
to surajit koley, Vijayasankar, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Ajmal Ali, arunk...@botany.du.ac.in, ren...@lmu.de
Nice ones Surajit ji


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

surajit koley

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Jul 4, 2013, 1:02:14 PM7/4/13
to Gurcharan Singh, Vijayasankar, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Ajmal Ali, arunk...@botany.du.ac.in, ren...@lmu.de
Thank you very much Sir, i wanted to see if there is any difference between the species sold in the markets and the one this thread started with.

Regards,
surajit
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