Please identify this tree

[Neha Singh]

I think Apocynaceae, but help me identify the species.

Location- Taljai Hill ,Pune

Date-14 Aprl 2011.

[Dinesh Valke]

... looks ike species of Morinda ... most probably M. pubescens.
Please wait for comments.
Regards.
Dinesh

[H S]

Ya its Morinda sps.. (Rubiaceae and not Apocynaceae)
Dinesh ji why not M. tinctoria ?



--

 - H.S.

A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a mere heart of stone

[Dinesh Valke]

Hello HS ... the soft (velvety) texture of the leaves makes me think of M. pubescens.

M. tinctoria is cultivated for dye, and M. citrifolia is planted as an ornamental in gardens or along avenues.
Both are non-natives, with darker green leaves ... plus shining in case of citrifolia,

Mistaking is easy for me !! Please wait for comment(s).
Neha ji will help us here by letting us know whether the plant is found planted / wild.

Regards.
Dinesh

[H S]

First of all M. pubescens is different from M. tinctoria its not synonym... some have merged them together..
Secondly M. tinctoria is found wild... ya its produces yellow dye from the roots of the plants..

M. citrifolia is cutivated

I know the leaf of M. pubescens is hairy,,, but it hard to make out in this photograph..

[shrikant ingalhalikar]

M. pubescens J. E. Sm. is syn M. tinctoria Roxb. var tomentosa (Heyne
ex Roth.) Hook. f. It is wild in Pune surroundings. Bartondi alluring
to multi faced fruit (syncarp) Regards, Shrikant

On May 25, 4:17 pm, Dinesh Valke <dinesh.va...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello HS ... the soft (velvety) texture of the leaves makes me think of *M.
> pubescens*.
>
> *M. tinctoria* is cultivated for dye, and *M. citrifolia* is planted as an

> ornamental in gardens or along avenues.

> Both are non-natives, with darker green leaves ... plus shining in case of *
> citrifolia*,

>
> Mistaking is easy for me !! Please wait for comment(s).
> Neha ji will help us here by letting us know whether the plant is found
> planted / wild.
>
> Regards.
> Dinesh
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 4:04 PM, H S <hemsan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Ya its Morinda sps.. (Rubiaceae and not Apocynaceae)
> > Dinesh ji why not M. tinctoria ?
>
> > --
> >  - H.S.
>
> > A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a mere heart of

> > stone- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[H S]

I think M. tinctoria Roxb. var tomentosa (Heyne ex Roth.) Hook. f. is syn of M. pubescens  J. E. Sm. 

--

[Gurcharan Singh]

According to Kew Plant List Morinda tinctoria var. tomentosa Hook.f. was renamed Morinda coreia var. tomentosa (Hook. f.) R.R.Fernandez  (TROPICOS information) in Trees of Mumbai 174, 1999. This is now considered as synonym of 

Morinda coreia Buch.-Ham.

http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-129800

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Dinesh Valke]

Gurcharan ji,

1) M. tinctoria Roxb. var tomentosa (Heyne ex Roth.) Hook. f. ... synonym of M. pubescens  J. E. Sm
2) M. tinctoria var. tomentosa Hook.f. ... renamed as M. coreia var. tomentosa (Hook. f.) R.R.Fernandez ... synonym of M. coreia Buch.-Ham.

Wanting to clear my confusion ... hope these: 1) and 2) are distinct.

Regards.
Dinesh

[Dinesh Valke]

Gurcharan ji ... OR did you imply M. pubescens is J. E. Sm is now reduced to synonmy of M. coreia Buch.-Ham. ?
Regards.
Dinesh

[Neil Soares]

Hi,  Thought we had settled this issue. Please refer to this link:   https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix/browse_thread/thread/5927bedae08f10f4/d1f9f53b736d543e?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=Morinda+tomentosa+Neil+Soares#d1f9f53b736d543e                                    Regards,                                   Neil Soares. --- On Thu, 5/26/11, Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Gurcharan Singh]

Dear Neil ji and Dinesh ji

The link and discussion cited by Neil ji was dated in 2009, and lot has changed since the publication of KEW Plant List in 2010. It still contains some ambiguities but hope we will have to live with these for at least 2-3 years more till things are sorted out.

The name Morinda pubescens Sm., according to Kew Plant List is unplaced name, yet to be resolved

In Flora of British India, Sir J D Hooker,  while naming the variety M. tinctoria var. tomentosa Hook.f.  did cite M. tomentosa Heyne in Roth as the first synonym, but perhaps the two plants are different (Hooker also gave differentiating characters as leaves tomentose on both surfaces, peduncles leaf-opposed)  and that is why the entry at Kew Plant List as well TROPICOS (and Fernandez, Trees of Mumbai, page 174, 1999--though I have not seen this) lists the variety as tomentosa Hook.f and not (Heyne ex Roth) Hook.f., similarly Fernandez while transferring this to species to M. coreia Buch.-Ham., names it as M. coreia Buch.-Ham. var. tomentosa (Hook.f.) Fernandez and not M. coreia Buch.-Ham. var. tomentosa (Heyne ex Roth) Fernandez. ......................This taxon (excluding M. tomentosa Hehne ex Roth) is according to KEW Plant List synonym of M. M. coreia Buch.-Ham. In fact M. tinctoria Roxb. itself is synonym of M. coreia Buch.-Ham

 http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-129800

The fact that two (M. tinctoria var. tomentosa Hook.f. and M. tomentosa Heyne ex Roth) are different is supported by the fact that M. tomentosa Heyne ex Roth is now considered as synonym of M. citrifolia L.

http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-129953

Perhaps both species (M. coreia and M. citrifolia) occur in India and a reliable recent key should help.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Gurcharan Singh]

Perhaps the easiest difference between the two species

Leaves shining and glabrous on both surfaces....................................Morinda citrifolia

Leaves tomentose on both surfaces..................................................Morinda coreia

In light of this above plant should be M. coreia

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[H S]

Morinda tinctoria is not glabrous either tomentose... which is
commonly found in Sanjay Gandhi National Park... though everyone merge
M. tinctoria and M. pubescens..

M. tomentosa is in 1821 is earlier than M. coeria Buch.-Ham. is in
1822 . and M. tinctoria Roxb. is later in 1832.

Hook.f. was first to change the rank.. infact he made many other var.
in genus M. tinctoria

According to Blatter, M. citrifolia is introduce species to India...

I have seen M. citrifolia only in Cultivation...

>> similarly Fernandez while transferring this to species to *M. coreia*
>> Buch.-Ham.,
>> names it as *M. coreia* Buch.-Ham. var. *tomentosa *(Hook.f.) Fernandez
>> and not *M. coreia* Buch.-Ham. var. tomentosa (Heyne ex Roth) Fernandez.

>> ......................This taxon (excluding M. tomentosa Hehne ex Roth) is

>> according to KEW Plant List synonym of M. *M. coreia* Buch.-Ham. In fact
>> M. tinctoria Roxb. itself is synonym of *M. coreia* Buch.-Ham
>>
>> http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-129800
>>
>>
>> The fact that two (*M. tinctoria* var. *tomentosa* Hook.f. and M.
>> tomentosa Heyne ex Roth) are different is supported by the fact that *M.
>> tomentosa* Heyne ex Roth is now considered as synonym of *M. citrifolia*L.

>>
>> http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-129953
>>
>> Perhaps both species (M. coreia and M. citrifolia) occur in India and a
>> reliable recent key should help.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh
>> Retired Associate Professor
>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089
>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 12:23 AM, Neil Soares
>> <drneil...@yahoo.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> Thought we had settled this issue. Please refer to this link:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix/browse_thread/thread/5927bedae08f10f4/d1f9f53b736d543e?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=Morinda+tomentosa+Neil+Soares#d1f9f53b736d543e
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Neil Soares.
>>>

>>> --- On *Thu, 5/26/11, Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com>* wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:70406] Re: Please identify this tree
>>> To: "Gurcharan Singh" <sing...@gmail.com>
>>> Cc: "efloraofindia" <indian...@googlegroups.com>
>>> Date: Thursday, May 26, 2011, 11:36 PM
>>>
>>>

>>> Gurcharan ji ... *OR* did you imply *M. pubescens* is J. E. Sm is now
>>> reduced to synonmy of *M. coreia* Buch.-Ham. ?

>>> Regards.
>>> Dinesh
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Dinesh Valke

>>> <dinesh...@gmail.com<http://us.mc339.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dinesh...@gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> Gurcharan ji,
>>>
>>> 1) *M. tinctoria Roxb. var tomentosa (Heyne ex Roth.) Hook. f*. ...
>>> synonym of *M. pubescens* J. E. Sm
>>> 2) *M. tinctoria var. tomentosa Hook.f.* ... renamed as *M. coreia* var.
>>> *tomentosa* (Hook. f.) R.R.Fernandez ... synonym of *M. coreia*Buch.-Ham.

>>>
>>> Wanting to clear my confusion ... hope these: 1) and 2) are distinct.
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>> Dinesh
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 7:22 AM, Gurcharan Singh

>>> <sing...@gmail.com<http://us.mc339.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=sing...@gmail.com>

>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> According to Kew Plant List Morinda tinctoria var. tomentosa Hook.f. was
>>> renamed Morinda coreia var.

>>> tomentosa<http://www.tropicos.org/Name/100225909> (Hook.

>>> f.) R.R.Fernandez (TROPICOS information) in Trees of Mumbai 174, 1999.
>>> This

>>> is now considered as synonym of *Morinda* *coreia* Buch.-Ham.

>>>
>>> http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-129800
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh
>>> Retired Associate Professor
>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089
>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/
>>>

[Gurcharan Singh]

Dear H S 

Perhaps you did not read my mail carefully

I wrote (on the basis of KEW Plant List) that M. tomentosa Heyne ex Roth, 1821 is synonym of M. citrifolia L., 1753.....that should be fine with Principle of Priority

I also wrote that on the basis of combinations cited by me M. tomentosa and M. tinctoria var. tomentosa are two different plants and latter is synonym of M. coreia (as per Kew List)

If we have latest Database of 2010, citing earlier publications carries no meaning in final solution.

Please read my mail analysis carefully and suggest if you have any improvements.

I could not understand what you wanted to convey "Morinda tinctoria is not glabrous either tomentose... which is

commonly found in Sanjay Gandhi National Park..."

Leaves shining and glabrous on both surfaces....................................Morinda citrifolia

Leaves tomentose on both surfaces..................................................Morinda coreia

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Dinesh Valke]

Many thanks Gurcharan ji for digging into Morinda complex.
The situation seems to be in a kind of flux.

With so much discussed, in my belief, Neha ji's plant is Morinda pubescens ... synonym of M. coreia.
Regards.

[H S]

Sirji
every thing is in mess if you see the work done by Kew Plant List in
case of Morinda..

How can M. tomentosa can be syn. of M. citrifolia which has nothing to
do with tomentose... i feel its a syn. of M. pubescens rather M.
citrifolia.

we need to dig out original descriptions given by original authors..

i feel Morinda tinctoria and M. pubescens are two distnct plant...
here is nothing to do with M. citrifolia as it is exotic.. planted
only in gardens... or for NONI...

On 5/27/11, Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Many thanks Gurcharan ji for digging into *Morinda* complex.

> The situation seems to be in a kind of flux.
>

> With so much discussed, in my belief, Neha ji's plant is *Morinda
> pubescens*... synonym of
> *M. coreia*.

[Gurcharan Singh]

Some more evidence to support that Morinda tomentosa Heyne ex Roth and Morinda tinctoria var. tomentosa Hook.f. are two different taxa (supporting entries in KEW Plant List):

http://www.globalspecies.org/ntaxa/1085299

http://www.globalspecies.org/ntaxa/1085287

Morinda pubescens is not listed at all, nor was it in Flora of British India, although supposed to have been described from India in 1813. Perhaps its status has to be investigated.

[Dinesh Valke]

... this makes some sense in context of not finding this species in any of the old texts (other than scientific).
No dictionaries OR literature has any instances of M. pubescens, though a thorough native.
In comparison, M. tinctoria and M. citrifolia are well discussed.

Regards.
Dinesh

[Alok Goyal]

Hallo All

Photo taken on- 5th June, 2011

Place, Sector 46 Chandigarh

Temperature- 39 max, 29 min

Time of the day- 4:40pm

Habit- Tree

Habitat- in a home garden

Stem- straight with branching after about 8-9 feet

Bark- fissured longitudinally (as shown)

Leaves- Somewhat heart shaped, coarse on both the surfaces, very thin, toothed, only one leaf observed having the shape variation like that of Morus

Fruits, flowers- not seen

Young branches having axillary buds resembling that of Morus

Alok

[Gurcharan Singh]

Resurfacing again for ID

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[H S]

Check with Eriolaena sp. (may be E. hookeri)

regards,

[prasad dash]

Yes. Agreed with HS ji. This is Eriolaena sp.

Regards

Prasad

--
Prasad Kumar Dash
Ecologist, Orissa, India
email: prasad....@gmail.com
ph. 09437444241

[J.M. Garg]

Hi, Alok ji,

May I request you to pl. post larger & other images, if you have.

Could you identify the tree ?

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Alok Goyal <alok...@gmail.com>
Date: 6 June 2011 at 15:28
Subject: [efloraofindia:71155] Please identify this tree
To: indian...@googlegroups.com

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2800 members & 2,65,000 messages on 31.3.17) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 12,000 species & 2,50,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

[J.M. Garg]

[Gurcharan Singh]

Forwarding for ID

Distributed as Eriolaena species- Chandigarh

Group discussion at

Please identify this tree (google.com)

[Gurcharan Singh]

Forwarding for ID

Distributed as Eriolaena species- Chandigarh

Group discussion at

Please identify this tree (google.com)

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Neha Singh <neha.v...@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 at 1:31:44 PM UTC+5:30
Subject: Please identify this tree
To: Dr Pankaj Kumar <sahani...@gmail.com>
Cc: JM Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>, efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, Vijayasankar <vijay.b...@gmail.com>, Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com>, manya <mani....@gmail.com>, drneil...@yahoo.com <drneil...@yahoo.com>, sheetal <sheeta...@gmail.com>, le...@rediffmail.com <le...@rediffmail.com>, drsmp...@gmail.com <drsmp...@gmail.com>, tchakrab <tcha...@gmail.com>, plantscape(ajinkya) <ajinky...@gmail.com>, Dr. Arvind Kadus <agasti...@yahoo.co.in>, aparna...@gmail.com <aparna...@gmail.com>, ranu <raani...@gmail.com>, rahu...@gmail.com <rahu...@gmail.com>, PLUMBAGO ZEYLANICA <Plumbago...@gmail.com>

I think Apocynaceae, but help me identify the species.

Location- Taljai Hill ,Pune

Date-14 Aprl 2011.

[Gurcharan Singh]

Forwarding again

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.

https://www.gurcharanfamily.com/

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[Nayan Singh]

I think Morinda sp....... May be Morinda coreia..

Regards

Nayan.

...........................

N.S.Dungriyal IFS
Retd. Principal Chief Conservator of Forests

Madhya Pradesh, Bhopal India.

Mo - 7999761851

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[Saroj Kasaju]

Morinda citrifolia L. ? Any description about number of petals ?

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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