Equisetum arvense L. ????

[Saroj Kasaju]

Dear Members,

Location: Soureni, Mirik, India

Date: 18 May 2017

Altitude: 4500 ft. 

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Saroj ji.

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Chris ji.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Chris Fraser-Jenkins" <chriso...@yahoo.co.uk>
Date: 04-Jul-2017 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: Equisetum arvense L. ????
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc:

No, arvense does occur in the high Himalaya behind the main ranges, and in the far west, but not at Mirik.  The common Himalayan species is this, E. diffusum, closely related to arvense and I treat it as a subspecies.

Chris F.-J. 

---

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, 2 July 2017, 21:51
Subject: Fwd: Equisetum arvense L. ????

[Saroj Kasaju]

Dear all ,

Copy pasting from Flora of China 

Equisetum arvense Linnaeus :

Forests, forest margins, under bushes, meadows, banks of rivers and streams, open fields; sea level to 3700 m.

Equisetum diffusum D. Don :

Under bushes, roadsides; sea level to 3400 m.

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 1:37 PM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, Chris ji.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Chris Fraser-Jenkins" <chriso...@yahoo.co.uk>
Date: 04-Jul-2017 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: Equisetum arvense L. ????
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc:

No, arvense does occur in the high Himalaya behind the main ranges, and in the far west, but not at Mirik.  The common Himalayan species is this, E. diffusum, closely related to arvense and I treat it as a subspecies.

Chris F.-J. 

---

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, 2 July 2017, 21:51
Subject: Fwd: Equisetum arvense L. ????

[Saroj Kasaju]

Thank you Mr. Fraser-Jenkins for elaborated enlightenment !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 6:49 AM, Chris Fraser-Jenkins <chriso...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Dear Dr. Kasaju,

       Not sure what information of relevance to these taxa in India your post from FoC provides,  but I'm afraid I can't recommend following the Flora of China (actually the "Flora of Errors") for many things, though it's OK concerning Chinese distribution for these two.  But as you may know from Indian literature, the distribution, altitude and ecology of E. arvense subsp. arvense and subsp. diffusum in the Indo-Himalaya is very well known, along with where they occur in terms of depth into the Himalaya - and has been well known for many decades.  As you can see, the altitudes given for the whole of China (including boreal China) are complete nonsense as far as the situation in India is concerned!  Subsp. arvense is confined to high, semi-dry inner Himalayan areas and becomes progressively rarer eastwards - finally dying out eastwards in Nepal.  It is not known in West Bengal, or Sikkim, nor Bhutan or Arunachal Pradesh.  Subsp. diffusum on the other hand - the common N. Indian taxon - is in the outer Himalaya to C. Himalayan ranges and goes right through N.E. India.  In India, one is a typical European element dying out to the east and quite typically only reaching as far east as E. Nepal (at high altitude behind the Himalaya), the other is a Sino-Himalayan element, extending as far west as Pakistan.  They are easy to distinguish as arvense has single ridges in the sheaths and diffusum has double ones, also arvense is sterile-fertile dimorphic with brown, achlorophyllous fertile stems that do not develop green branches, but die off - while diffusum is fertile on persistent and green branches and is not sterile-fertile dimorphic.

     You will find details in much Indian literature, including my paper on pteridophytes of the far-west Himalaya (in Fern Gaz. 2010), also in the Ferns and Fern-Allies of Nepal 1: 86-89 (2015) and of course in the Annotated Checklist of Indian Pteridophytes vol. 1: 61-62 (2016), which is where you need to look concerning details of Indian pteridophyte species.

     Best wishes,

            Chris Fraser-Jenkins, Kathmandu.

---

From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>; chriso...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 4 July 2017, 20:42
Subject: Re: Re: Fwd: Equisetum arvense L. ????

[Saroj Kasaju]

Equisetum diffusum D. Don  

Spreading Horsetail 

आँखे झार Aankhe Jhaar / कुरकुरे घाँस Kurakure Jhaar / चस्मा झार Chasmaa Jhaar / सिमढुङ्ग्रि Simadhungri / ताल्चे झार Talche Jhaar 

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

Forwarded conversation

Subject: Equisetum arvense L. ????

------------------------

From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 1:06 PM
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>, Tabish <tab...@gmail.com>, "flowers...@gmail.com" <flowers...@gmail.com>

Dear Members,

Location: Soureni, Mirik, India

Date: 18 May 2017

Altitude: 4500 ft. 

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

----------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 10:36 AM

To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Thanks, Saroj ji.

----------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 1:37 PM

To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Thanks, Chris ji.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Chris Fraser-Jenkins" <chriso...@yahoo.co.uk>
Date: 04-Jul-2017 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: Equisetum arvense L. ????
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc:

No, arvense does occur in the high Himalaya behind the main ranges, and in the far west, but not at Mirik.  The common Himalayan species is this, E. diffusum, closely related to arvense and I treat it as a subspecies.

Chris F.-J. 

---

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, 2 July 2017, 21:51
Subject: Fwd: Equisetum arvense L. ????

----------
From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 8:42 PM
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>, chriso...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

Dear all ,

Copy pasting from Flora of China 

Equisetum arvense Linnaeus :

Forests, forest margins, under bushes, meadows, banks of rivers and streams, open fields; sea level to 3700 m.

Equisetum diffusum D. Don :

Under bushes, roadsides; sea level to 3400 m.

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

----------
From: Chris Fraser-Jenkins <chriso...@yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 6:49 AM
To: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Dear Dr. Kasaju,

       Not sure what information of relevance to these taxa in India your post from FoC provides,  but I'm afraid I can't recommend following the Flora of China (actually the "Flora of Errors") for many things, though it's OK concerning Chinese distribution for these two.  But as you may know from Indian literature, the distribution, altitude and ecology of E. arvense subsp. arvense and subsp. diffusum in the Indo-Himalaya is very well known, along with where they occur in terms of depth into the Himalaya - and has been well known for many decades.  As you can see, the altitudes given for the whole of China (including boreal China) are complete nonsense as far as the situation in India is concerned!  Subsp. arvense is confined to high, semi-dry inner Himalayan areas and becomes progressively rarer eastwards - finally dying out eastwards in Nepal.  It is not known in West Bengal, or Sikkim, nor Bhutan or Arunachal Pradesh.  Subsp. diffusum on the other hand - the common N. Indian taxon - is in the outer Himalaya to C. Himalayan ranges and goes right through N.E. India.  In India, one is a typical European element dying out to the east and quite typically only reaching as far east as E. Nepal (at high altitude behind the Himalaya), the other is a Sino-Himalayan element, extending as far west as Pakistan.  They are easy to distinguish as arvense has single ridges in the sheaths and diffusum has double ones, also arvense is sterile-fertile dimorphic with brown, achlorophyllous fertile stems that do not develop green branches, but die off - while diffusum is fertile on persistent and green branches and is not sterile-fertile dimorphic.

     You will find details in much Indian literature, including my paper on pteridophytes of the far-west Himalaya (in Fern Gaz. 2010), also in the Ferns and Fern-Allies of Nepal 1: 86-89 (2015) and of course in the Annotated Checklist of Indian Pteridophytes vol. 1: 61-62 (2016), which is where you need to look concerning details of Indian pteridophyte species.

     Best wishes,

            Chris Fraser-Jenkins, Kathmandu.

---

From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>; chriso...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 4 July 2017, 20:42
Subject: Re: Re: Fwd: Equisetum arvense L. ????

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

Thanks, Chris ji.

Thanks, Saroj ji.

To: "efloraofindia" <indian...@googlegroups.co m>, "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>, "Tabish" <tab...@gmail.com>, "flowers...@gmail.com" <flowers...@gmail.com>
Cc:

Dear Members,

Location: Soureni, Mirik, India

Date: 18 May 2017

Altitude: 4500 ft. 

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

----------
From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 9:47 PM
To: Chris Fraser-Jenkins <chriso...@yahoo.co.uk>, "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>, efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>