Zingiber cernuum in FOI

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J.M. Garg

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Oct 8, 2023, 4:37:28 AM10/8/23
to Tabish, DineshValke, efloraofindia
Hi, Tabish ji,
Zingiber cernuum in FOI (images attached) should be a syn. of Zingiber nimmonii (J.Graham) Dalzell as per efi thread though POWO says both to be different.
Pl. check.
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With regards,
J.M.Garg
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Saroj Kasaju

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Oct 8, 2023, 8:59:13 AM10/8/23
to indian...@googlegroups.com, J.M. Garg, Tabish, DineshValke

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Dinesh Valke

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Oct 9, 2023, 2:20:05 AM10/9/23
to Saroj Kasaju, indian...@googlegroups.com, J.M. Garg, Tabish, Shrikant Ingalhalikar, sushant more
Thanks very much, Garg ji, for surfacing this Zingiber cernuum VS nimmonii.

Considering they are different species, we need to see sufficient observations from the field experts; so that we can easily differentiate them.
I think they are not easily differentiated visually when we see the plant in the fruiting phase OR with dehisced fruits.

Shrikant ji Ingalhalikar's  Further Flowers of Sahyadri, the second among the three field guides to identify plants of northern Western Ghats of India, based on flowers, have photos of both plants:
Zingiber cernuum: page 380
Zingiber nimmonii: page 397

My observation of the Zingiber cernuum illustrated at FOI, agrees well with the illustration in Shrikant ji's FFOS.
My same observation is also illustrated at POWO ... https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:798324-1/images

But, all this could be wrong, and corrections will need to be done at all places.


Saroj ji,
Clicking on the link you provided takes us to a page showing a flower photographed by one of our friends Sushant More.
On that same page, clicking on "View more" leads us to a page showing two more photos of flowers, looking different.

Sushant's observation is at https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/59761452 ... though he must be correct with his ID, the observation still awaits validation.
Both observations - Sushant's and mine - need to be validated by experts.

Sushant had discussed Zingiber nimmonii with me; he said most of the plants of nimmonii in Western Ghats are wrongly identified as cernuum.
I have requested him to write an article or paper about this myth, based on which I can shift IDs of my observations to nimmonii.

Regards.
Dinesh

Tabish

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Oct 9, 2023, 2:39:40 AM10/9/23
to J.M. Garg, DineshValke, efloraofindia
Thanks Garg ji for bringing this up. Is there a published paper where Zingiber cernuum is treated as a synonym of Zingiber nimmonii? If there isn't, I will wait for such revision of the species by the botanical community. Till then I will continue to follow POWO.
   Regards
   Tabish
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J.M. Garg

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Oct 9, 2023, 2:47:02 AM10/9/23
to Tabish, DineshValke, efloraofindia
Sabu ji has provided book references at 
https://groups.google.com/g/indiantreepix/c/U5SWxAT1Rqc
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With regards,
J. M. Garg

Saroj Kasaju

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Oct 9, 2023, 2:48:07 AM10/9/23
to Dinesh Valke, indian...@googlegroups.com, J.M. Garg, Tabish, Shrikant Ingalhalikar, sushant more

Thank you Dinesh Ji,

Yes, I agree with you. There are not many images of the Z. cernuum on the net. We need look for 
keys and description to short this out.

Saroj Kasaju

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J.M. Garg

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Oct 9, 2023, 2:49:24 AM10/9/23
to Tabish, DineshValke, efloraofindia, Mamiyil Sabu
Sabu is the expert in this area and we should follow him.

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With regards,
J. M. Garg

Sushant More

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Oct 9, 2023, 3:20:42 AM10/9/23
to Saroj Kasaju, Dinesh Valke, efloraofindia, J.M. Garg, Tabish, Shrikant Ingalhalikar
Dear saroj sir, images posted by me on flicker are very old i haven't updated the captions yet and those are Z . nimmonii only i will update it soon.

Saroj Kasaju

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Oct 9, 2023, 3:49:45 AM10/9/23
to Sushant More, Dinesh Valke, efloraofindia, J.M. Garg, Tabish, Shrikant Ingalhalikar
OK Sushant ji !
Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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