Unknown tree_Phuket Island, Thailand

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Kenneth Greby

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Mar 25, 2010, 9:28:43 PM3/25/10
to indian...@googlegroups.com


----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Kenneth Greby <fst...@yahoo.com>
To: eflora...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, March 25, 2010 6:27:17 PM
Subject: Unknown tree_Phuket Island, Thailand

Greetings all--

 This was forwarded to me from a friend in another group. Perhaps someone here is familiar with it? Growing on limestone, just above the ocean. Thanks in advance.

 http://www.coverbuttons.com/images/SAR_7099.JPG

Regards--
Ken Greby.


tanay bose

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Mar 26, 2010, 1:39:45 AM3/26/10
to Kenneth Greby, indian...@googlegroups.com
Dear Ken,
If my identification is wrong don't get angry, I am trying my best, I am completely unaware about the floral diversity of Malyasia. Leaf, branch and fruit morphology suggests me that this plant belongs to the genus Madhuca sp from the family Sapotaceae. On rigourously morphological study and research tell me this prehistoric looking plant with all the characters directing towards its primitiveness. Hence my conclusion for the specific epithet of this plant will be..............................................................................
 
Madhuca hainanensis Chun & How, Acta Phytotax. Sin. 7: 71. 1958.
 
Trees 9--30 m tall. Bark dark grayish brown, rust colored and shining villous when young. Leaves often closely clustered at end of branches; stipules ca. 3 X 1 mm, tomentose, early deciduous; petiole 1.5--3 cm, gray tomentose; leaf blade oblong-obovate to oblong-oblanceolate, 6--12 X 2.5--4 cm, abaxially rust colored sericeous when young but glabrescent, adaxially glabrous and shiny, apex rounded and usually retuse, lateral veins 20--30 pairs, slender, and conspicuous. Flowers 1--3, axillary, nodding. Pedicel 2--3 cm, densely rust colored sericeous. Sepals elliptic to ovate-triangular, 1.5--8(--12) X 5.5--6.5 mm, both surfaces densely rust colored velutinous, apex obtuse. Corolla white, 1--1.2 cm, glabrous, 8--10-lobed. Stamens 28--30 in 3 whorls. Ovary ovoid-globose, rust colored sericeous, 6--8-locular. Style ca. 1.2 cm, base sericeous. Fruiting peduncle thick, 3--4.5 cm. Fruit greenish yellow, ovoid-globose to globose, 2.5--3 X 2--2.8 cm, pubescent, 1--5-seeded. Seeds oblong-ellipsoid, compressed, 2--2.5 X 0.8--1.2 cm, brown and shiny, scar elliptic. Fl. Jun-Sep, fr. Sep-Dec.
 
I am confident about the genus. Please validate my ID.
 
Regards
Tanay
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Tanay Bose
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Dr. Pankaj Kumar

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Mar 26, 2010, 7:38:34 AM3/26/10
to efloraofindia
Dear Mr. Ken,
You may send me the picture as I cant open the link. Will try my luck.
I have some references on Trees of Thailand.
pankaj...@rediffmail.com
Regards
Pankaj

Kenneth Greby

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Mar 26, 2010, 10:48:16 AM3/26/10
to tanay bose, indian...@googlegroups.com
Dear Tanay--

 Thank you very much for your help. The inflorescence does indeed suggest Sapotaceae. I will forward this ID to my friend (she's a botanist in South Florida, USA) and let her investigate from her.

Regards--
Ken.


From: tanay bose <tanay...@gmail.com>
To: Kenneth Greby <fst...@yahoo.com>
Cc: indian...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, March 25, 2010 10:39:45 PM
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:30800] Unknown tree_Phuket Island, Thailand

tanay bose

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Mar 26, 2010, 11:26:39 AM3/26/10
to Kenneth Greby, indian...@googlegroups.com
Dear Ken,
It was a pleasure that I could help you out.... I am eager to know what your taxonomist friend suggests , kindly let me known so that I can get aware of the name and if by ID is correct then a BINGO!! for me.
Regards
Tanay

Message has been deleted

Gurcharan Singh

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Mar 26, 2010, 9:59:08 PM3/26/10
to TANAY BOSE, Kenneth Greby, efloraofindia
Tanay
I must say you are really talented. I admire your great knowledge of plants at this young age. Keep up the enthusiasm. You have great future. I have been regularly writing on this group, thever hesitate in making guesses, even if they are wild guesses. It prompts others to study the photograph more carefully. Your guesses usually score more than 95, mostly 100 per cent. Please keep it up.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Dr. Pankaj Kumar <sahani...@gmail.com> wrote:
My dear Tanay,
You are like my younger brother so I am writing this. I imagine why
you are always in such a hurry!! Your own description says, "Flowers

1--3, axillary, nodding. Pedicel 2--3 cm, densely rust colored
sericeous". Does it match with the picture?
Sapotaceae genera in Thailand can be differentiated with the help of
keys based on arrangements of leaves (opposite or clustered) but not
without seeing the number of sepals. Flowers with 4 sepals (Payena,
Madhuca) and flowers with 5-6 sepals (Palaquim, Pouteria and
Xantolis). Can you please count, how many sepals you can see buddy!!
On one guess I thought this could be Xantolis species. But I will send
it to experts in Thailand to confirm. The stem surface is very unique.
Hope they will be of some help.
I would really be happy if you are right Tanay. Only thing I wish to
convey is not to be in hurry and overlook things. Be a good boy!!
Regards
Pankaj

Kenneth Greby

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Mar 26, 2010, 10:26:18 PM3/26/10
to Gurcharan Singh, TANAY BOSE, efloraofindia
I concur with Dr Singh. As far as I am concerned, all input here is of use to me and will be further investigated. (For what it's worth, this plant looks like some unholy inter-family cross between Eriobotrya deflexa (Bronze loquat--Rosaceae) and the giant tree Lobelia of South America--LOL!)

Looking forward to additional input from all.

Regards--
Ken.



From: Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>
To: TANAY BOSE <tanay...@gmail.com>; Kenneth Greby <fst...@yahoo.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, March 26, 2010 6:59:08 PM
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:30861] Re: Unknown tree_Phuket Island, Thailand

Kenneth Greby

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Mar 27, 2010, 12:13:29 AM3/27/10
to Gurcharan Singh, TANAY BOSE, efloraofindia
Greetings all--

 I received an email from my friend here in Florida that a fellow botanist (and traveler to Thailand) thought that this tree is Manilkara (Mimusops) kauki. At least we all agree on Sapotaceae!

 Anyone feel free to comment on this ID, please.

Regards--
Ken.


From: Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>
To: TANAY BOSE <tanay...@gmail.com>; Kenneth Greby <fst...@yahoo.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, March 26, 2010 6:59:08 PM
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:30858] Re: Unknown tree_Phuket Island, Thailand

Kenneth Greby

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Mar 27, 2010, 12:35:29 AM3/27/10
to Kenneth Greby, Gurcharan Singh, TANAY BOSE, efloraofindia

From Michael Ferrero, who supplied the ID:


"Manilkara kauki is pretty common right along the sea shores of the Eastern face of the Indo-Chinese peninsula and I guess its abundant in other coastal forests around Pen Malaysia and perhaps Philippines too?

I always know it from that really rough bark (a dead give away) as is the emerging reddish new leaves, arranged in an Edwardian collar-like effect as well as the Sapotaceous flowers held directly beneath the crown!

The Indian botanists have disputed the sinking of Madhuca longifolia into Manilkara? Mimusops? for ages but its really just them having a hard time losing their generic status of Madhuca (which by the way, is the common Hindi name for it).


Aside from locals consuming their ripened fruits, Mimusops kauki has little else going for it!

Interestingly Madhuca flowers are eaten fresh (after they have fallen over night but are processed into a kind of pickle) and the perfume is extracted by distilling the blooms in cold water and everporating off the oils by steaming! Its a very valuable commodity and entire (poorer) villages are employed just to get the Madhuca oil extracted this way!

One Indian medicine-lady once told me you can poison people with it! 

You throw immature blooms of the Madhuca into someone's curry pot (along with their meal presumably) and if they partake in the resulting meal all will be poisoned, some fatally! Apparently very difficult to prove cause of death!"


Regards--

Ken Greby.



From: Kenneth Greby <fst...@yahoo.com>
To: Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>; TANAY BOSE <tanay...@gmail.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, March 26, 2010 9:13:29 PM
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:30863] Re: Unknown tree_Phuket Island, Thailand

Greetings all--

 I received an email from my friend here in Florida that a fellow botanist (and traveler to Thailand) thought that this tree is Manilkara (Mimusops) kauki. At least we all agree on Sapotaceae!

 Anyone feel free to comment on this ID, please.

Regards--
Ken.

From: Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>
To: TANAY BOSE <tanay...@gmail.com>; Kenneth Greby <fst...@yahoo.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, March 26, 2010 6:59:08 PM
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:30858] Re: Unknown tree_Phuket Island, Thailand

Tanay
I must say you are really talented. I admire your great knowledge of plants at this young age. Keep up the enthusiasm. You have great future. I have been regularly writing on this group, thever hesitate in making guesses, even if they are wild guesses. It prompts others to study the photograph more carefully. Your guesses usually score more than 95, mostly 100 per cent. Please keep it up.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

tanay bose

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Mar 27, 2010, 2:28:45 AM3/27/10
to Kenneth Greby, Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia
  1. Dear Pankaj Ji I appreciate that you took the effort to identify the plant and point out my mistake. I am thankful to you I never mind criticizes it's a part of the fellow feeling, I always appreciate them  very much. Thank you very much for your lovely effort. I never do anything in hurry  I take a lot of time but my problem is that my knowledge is stipulated and know very little in contrast to hardcore taxonomist like you. Please do forgive me for the mistakes.
  2. Dear Gurcharan Ji, Thanks for your wishes,blessing and help which you always extend me. Your encouragement is a constant source of enthusiasm for me. I will always try my best for this group. I make my best efforts to at least move up to family name which may help other to get the name and minimize their search. thanks for you kind and loving support.
  3. Dear Ken, Thank you very very much for making me aware of the name and with my little knowledge I am happy that I could at least decipher the family .....will try my best later . Thanks again for the effort you took to accelerate my knowledge.
Regards
Tanay

Dr. Pankaj Kumar

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Mar 27, 2010, 2:58:56 AM3/27/10
to efloraofindia
I always admire your knowledge Mr. Tanay and I am not a hardcore
taxonomist.
Taxonomy is not an art of identifying plants, but its an art of
knowing how to identify plants. You are a botanist and not a layman so
I expect you to learn this art of taxonomy.
Pankaj

tanay bose

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Mar 27, 2010, 3:07:09 AM3/27/10
to Dr. Pankaj Kumar, efloraofindia
Thanks for your kind and valuable responses Dr. Sahani.
Regards
Tanay

Pankaj

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Kenneth Greby

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Mar 31, 2010, 10:40:21 PM3/31/10
to tanay bose, Dr. Pankaj Kumar, efloraofindia
Greetings all--

 My source for info on this tree, Michael Ferrero, has amended his ID to Mimusops hexandra. Sorry for any confusion. Please feel free to add anything to this discussion.

Regards--
Ken.

From: tanay bose <tanay...@gmail.com>
To: Dr. Pankaj Kumar <sahani...@gmail.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, March 27, 2010 12:07:09 AM
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:30893] Re: Unknown tree_Phuket Island, Thailand
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