Eranthemum roseum vs E. pulchellum

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Gurcharan Singh

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Mar 22, 2011, 12:28:06 PM3/22/11
to efloraofindia, Dinesh Valke
In past two months there have been few uploads of Eranthemum photographs. 

Pardeshi ji gave following key 

1. Bracts green with white ciliate margin, acuminate at apex.......E.
purpurascens
1. Bracts white with green nerves, mucronate at
apex.................E. roseum

We have one shrub growing in Delhi identified as E. nervosum, which has bracts similar to E. roseum with green and white portions. It is now considered as synonym of E. pulchellum. Also E. roseum and E. pulchellum are considered as distinct species, and in spite of trying a lot I could not find the differences between the two and am not able to decide whether our plant is E. roseum or E. pulchellum. It was pleasant surprise to find that Dinesh ji had raised this question in 2007. 


Any clues please

-- 


Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

shrikant ingalhalikar

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Mar 22, 2011, 10:22:39 PM3/22/11
to efloraofindia
Bracts white with green nerves
Bracts elliptic, cuspidate, glabrous and spikes upto 7.5
cm...E. pulchellum Andr.
Bracts obovate, mucronate, strigose and spikes longer than
7.5 cm....E. roseum (Vahl.) R. Br.

E. pulchellum is native to N. Bengal, planted and escape elsewhere, E.
roseum is native to W. peninsula. Regards, Shrikant

Dinesh Valke

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Mar 22, 2011, 10:53:53 PM3/22/11
to Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia
Gurcharan ji ... many thanks for surfacing my query put at UBC (where Tanay currently belongs).
The differences between E. roseum and E. pulchellum are not yet clear to me ... for the only fact : not sure whether the latter is found in northern Western Ghats.
If both of them are known to be distributed in northern Western Ghats, then the differences are very important to me.

Sometime later settled with the thinking that E. pulchellum has quite a few spikes closely rising at the end of stem (or branches) ... while E. roseum, commonly found in my vicinity has just one OR two spikes ... (will stand corrected). There could be better and clearer difference(s) between the two species.

Regards.
Dinesh

Gurcharan Singh

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Mar 22, 2011, 11:34:10 PM3/22/11
to Dinesh Valke, efloraofindia
Thanks Dinesh ji and Shrikant ji
I had to put this question because while resurfacing the photographs of another species (identified as E. purpurascence), the doubts arose in mind. Perhaps soon we would resurface all these together, and my plant from Delhi which I knew as E. nervosum (now correctly E. pulchellum) which needs to be checked for both E. roseum and E. pulchellum, apparently close species which can be confused. As suggested by Shrikant ji the differences are largely based on spike size and bracts shape. Let us concentrate on that for both Delhi plant and those from Western Ghats.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

Rashida Atthar

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Mar 23, 2011, 12:09:36 AM3/23/11
to Gurcharan Singh, Dinesh Valke, efloraofindia
Sir my general question regarding this  species which I have been asking many to verify : Was there any smell, fragrance ?   Thankyou.
 
regards,
Rashida.
 
P.S. Will soon give the difference in both the species from Dr Almeida's flora.
 
regards,
Rashida. 

Rashida Atthar

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Mar 23, 2011, 12:30:31 AM3/23/11
to Gurcharan Singh, Dinesh Valke, efloraofindia
Sir, in case this helps, here are the keys from Dr. Almeida's flora for Eranthemum L.  Vol  IV,  A pg: 36
 
1.Flowers reddish -pink---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------E. cinnabarinum
1.Flowers blue-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------2
   2. Bracts densely pubescent-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------E. pubescens  
   2. Bracts glabrous or faintly hairy-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------3
       3.Bracts white with green veins, obovate, obtuse, with a short reflexed mucro-------------------------------------------------------------4
          4. Plants with many erect branches springing from a common base------------------------------------------------------------E. wattii 
          4. Plants with single stem, branched above, not in clumps------------------------------------------------------------------------------------5
              5. Flowers 3-4 cm across --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- E. roseum
              5. Flowers upto 2.5 cm across------------------------------------------------------------------------------------E. roseum var. parviflorum 
        3.Bracts greeen, elliptic, ovate,acuminate--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------6   
              6. Flowers in dense,usually solitary,uninterrupted spikes;bracts exceeding 2 cm long-------------------E. purpurascens 
              6. Flowers in interrupted usually paniculate spikes; bracts less than 1 cm long---------------------------------------------------7
                  7. Leaves  elliptic-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------  E. fastigiatum 
                  7. Leaves  ovate----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------E. pulchellum
 
 
regards,
Rashida.      

Pankaj Kumar

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Mar 23, 2011, 2:36:03 AM3/23/11
to Pankaj Kumar, Dinesh Valke, indiantreepix
Dear Dinesh Sir
Hope this could be of some help to you. Will try to find some time out
for the other protologue.
If you are unable to translate, then please let me know. I will do it FOR YOU.
Regards
Pankaj


On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Dr Pankaj Kumar
<sahani...@gmail.com> wrote:


>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Dinesh Valke <dinesh.va...@gmail.com>
> Date: Mar 23, 7:53 am
> Subject: Eranthemum roseum vs E. pulchellum
> To: efloraofindia
>
>
> Gurcharan ji ... many thanks for surfacing my query put at UBC (where
> Tanay
> currently belongs).

> The differences between *E. roseum* and *E. pulchellum* are not yet


> clear to
> me ... for the only fact : not sure whether the latter is found in
> northern
> Western Ghats.
> If both of them are known to be distributed in northern Western Ghats,
> then
> the differences are very important to me.
>

> Sometime later settled with the thinking that *E. pulchellum* has


> quite a
> few spikes closely rising at the end of stem (or branches) ... while

> *E.
> roseum*, commonly found in my vicinity has just one OR two spikes ...


> (will
> stand corrected). There could be better and clearer difference(s)
> between
> the two species.
>
> Regards.
> Dinesh
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com>


> wrote:
>> In past two months there have been few uploads of Eranthemum photographs.
>
>> Pardeshi ji gave following key
>
>> 1. Bracts green with white ciliate margin, acuminate at apex.......E.
>> purpurascens
>> 1. Bracts white with green nerves, mucronate at
>> apex.................E. roseum
>
>> We have one shrub growing in Delhi identified as E. nervosum, which has
>> bracts similar to E. roseum with green and white portions. It is now
>> considered as synonym of E. pulchellum. Also E. roseum and E. pulchellum are
>> considered as distinct species, and in spite of trying a lot I could not
>> find the differences between the two and am not able to decide whether our
>> plant is E. roseum or E. pulchellum. It was pleasant surprise to find that
>> Dinesh ji had raised this question in 2007.
>
>>http://www.ubcbotanicalgarden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22084
>> <http://www.ubcbotanicalgarden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22084>
>> Any clues please
>
>> --
>
>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh
>> Retired  Associate Professor
>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
>> Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
>>http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

--
***********************************************
"TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!"


Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae)
Research Associate
Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project
Department of Habitat Ecology
Wildlife Institute of India
Post Box # 18
Dehradun - 248001, India

ERANTHEMUM PULCHELLUM.pdf

Gurcharan Singh

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Mar 23, 2011, 8:40:39 AM3/23/11
to Pankaj Kumar, Dinesh Valke, indiantreepix
Thanks Rashida ji and Pankaj ji

I will have closer look on the plant on Monday and perhaps report back. It would also help in deciding which key (one supplied by Shrikant ji, and one by Rashida ji) is more useful, or else a better key can be evolved based on characters from both the keys (since they focus on different key characters) and Pankaj ji's attachment.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

J.M. Garg

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Jul 1, 2011, 7:14:28 AM7/1/11
to efloraofindia, Shrikant Ingalhalikar, Gurcharan Singh, Dr. Pankaj Kumar, Dinesh Valke, Tabish

Forwarding again for any assistance in the matter please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

“Bracts white with green nerves

        Bracts elliptic, cuspidate, glabrous and spikes upto 7.5
cm...E. pulchellum Andr.
        Bracts obovate, mucronate, strigose and spikes longer than
7.5 cm....E. roseum (Vahl.) R. Br.

E. pulchellum is native to N. Bengal, planted and escape elsewhere, E.

roseum is native to W. peninsula. Regards, Shrikant”

 

“Sir, in case this helps, here are the keys from Dr. Almeida's flora for Eranthemum L.  Vol  IV,  A pg: 36


 
1.Flowers reddish -pink---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------E. cinnabarinum
1.Flowers blue-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------2
   2. Bracts densely pubescent-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------E. pubescens 
   2. Bracts glabrous or faintly hairy-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------3
       3.Bracts white with green veins, obovate, obtuse, with a short reflexed mucro-------------------------------------------------------------4
          4. Plants with many erect branches springing from a common base------------------------------------------------------------E. wattii
          4. Plants with single stem, branched above, not in clumps------------------------------------------------------------------------------------5
              5. Flowers 3-4 cm across --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- E. roseum
              5. Flowers upto 2.5 cm across------------------------------------------------------------------------------------E. roseum var. parviflorum 
        3.Bracts greeen, elliptic, ovate,acuminate--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------6  
              6. Flowers in dense,usually solitary,uninterrupted spikes;bracts exceeding 2 cm long-------------------E. purpurascens
              6. Flowers in interrupted usually paniculate spikes; bracts less than 1 cm long---------------------------------------------------7
                  7. Leaves  elliptic-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------  E. fastigiatum
                  7. Leaves  ovate----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------E. pulchellum
 
 
regards,

Rashida.      ”

 

“Hope this could be of some help to you. Will try to find some time out for the other protologue.


If you are unable to translate, then please let me know. I will do it FOR YOU.
Regards

Pankaj”

 
"I will have closer look on the plant on Monday and perhaps report back. It would also help in deciding which key (one supplied by Shrikant ji, and one by Rashida ji) is more useful, or else a better key can be evolved based on characters from both the keys (since they focus on different key characters) and Pankaj ji's attachment.
--
Dr. Gurcharan Singh"

--
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J.M. Garg

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Jul 2, 2011, 6:24:45 AM7/2/11
to efloraofindia, Shrikant Ingalhalikar, Gurcharan Singh, Dr. Pankaj Kumar, Dinesh Valke, Tabish

J.M. Garg

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Jul 2, 2011, 9:52:53 AM7/2/11
to efloraofindia, Shrikant Ingalhalikar, Gurcharan Singh, Dr. Pankaj Kumar, Dinesh Valke, Tabish
I think issue was furthjer resolved vide the following thread:
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