Swamy/New series/ID/12 - ID of the Plant, Chennai.

[M Swamy]

Dear friends,

Kindly Id the plant photographs received from a friend in Chennai.  Photographed yesterday.  I understand it is a  bonsoi  plant. 

[Paradesi Anjaneyulu]

Might be Burseraceae,

With regards. 

Sender notified by Mailtrack 05/21/21, 07:43:20 PM

On Tue, 18 May 2021 at 17:42, M Swamy <swamy...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear friends,

Kindly Id the plant photographs received from a friend in Chennai.  Photographed yesterday.  I understand it is a  bonsoi  plant. 

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[Mahadeswara]

Thanks a lot Anjaneyulu ji.  I was thinking it could be a    Commiphora  species  (Burseraceae) .  Meanwhile you suggested the family.  I will try to work on it.

[M Swamy]

Sending h/w two more photos received. 

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[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Paradesi ji and Mahadeswara ji.

On checking the family in efloraofindia, I could track it upto Commiphora wightii (Arn.) Bhandari as per images and details herein and as per 

https://plantslive.in/product/buy-commiphora-berryi-usuvaindian-balm-of-gilead-plant-online-india/

http://bonsaiclubofahmedabad.com/sales_detail.php?sales_id=115

https://www.desertcart.in/products/72901437-guggul-myrrh-tree-commiphora-wightii-exotic-caudex-mukul-bonsai-seed-5-seeds

https://laidbackgardener.blog/2017/12/22/the-two-plants-of-the-magi/
https://www.flipkart.com/chamunda-greens-commiphora-wightii/p/itm33117aadfa00a
ICAR

But flowers look different as per 
Images at Commiphora wightii (Arn.) Bhandari
http://gardentia.sitewalla.com/2013/09/16/guggul/
Observations on Flowering and Fruiting in Commiphora wightii (Arnott) Bhandari

Could not find a match with other species listed in Flora of Peninsular India (namely Commiphora berryi, Commiphora caudata var. caudata, Commiphora caudata var. pubescens, Commiphora gileadensis, Commiphora myrrha, Commiphora stocksiana, Commiphora wightii)

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

[J.M. Garg]

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With regards,
J. M. Garg

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: M Swamy <swamy...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 29 May, 2021, 5:24 pm
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:386558] Swamy/New series/ID/12 - ID of the Plant, Chennai.
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

Thanks Garg ji for your  detailed  study in pursuit of the species ID.  Great!

[surajit koley]

I was following this thread. I want to know a thing or two about bonsai :-

1. does their stunted growth deform them?
2. do leaves retain their characters?
3. flowers and fruits should remain as in normal species, since they are sexual organs - isn't it?

Flowers in this species seem to have staminal tube - so why not check for meliaceae member, for example - https://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20p?see=I_SP512&res=640 ?

Thank you

With regards

surajit koley

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[Mahadeswara]

Thanks for taking interest in this thread to unravel its identity .Regarding your queries,

1. No. the stunted growth does not deform the plant but it  manifest  in miniature forms.

2. Sure.

3. Yes they remain in normal form.  

Meanwhile I am asking the sender of these photographs  to allow the plant to grow on its own without clipping the plant parts. Let us see what happens. 

Regards,

Dr.Mahadeswara Swamy

[surajit koley]

Thanks, Sir ji, for providing answers to my queries.

I apologize for using politically incorrect words - it would be "reproductive organs", in place of "sexual organs".

However, your answers no. 1 & 2 imply -  this species wouldn't be a Meliaceae member, because they mostly have pinnate leaves with entire margins of leaflets.

Please do not waste your time on Meliaceae.

Thank you

With regards

surajit koley

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[surajit koley]

[Mahadeswara]

Dear  Master  ji,

  I think you are a very sensitive person.There is no necessity to apologize.   It is not justified.  You have used only a synonym.  Nothing else.  Your suggestions / remarks based on in -depth study are  very valuable for the group.  Nevertheless I value your feelings.

With best wishes,

[surajit koley]

Good morning, Sir ji.

And thank you very much for those encouraging feedbacks.

I have another suggestion, if I may - please think of it before any search or allotting your time to it - 

what about probability of a rutaceae member? (since I think some of those flowers also look similar, and they are used for bonsai, and the flower colour in your species is actually greenish-white, not yellow.! And also take care of those green-turning-orange fruit in your pic no MG-20210518-WA0018).

I still cannot get rid of meliaceae though! Just check some fruit pics - 

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munronia
  
• http://www.plantsoftheworldonline.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:26792-1
  

The problem area is crenate leaf (or leaflets?)

Thank you

With regards

surajit koley

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[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for Id assistance please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

Might be Burseraceae- from Paradesi ji

Thanks a lot Anjaneyulu ji.  I was thinking it could be a    Commiphora  species  (Burseraceae) .  Meanwhile you suggested the family.  I will try to work on it.- from Mahadeswara ji

Sending h/w two more photos received. - from Mahadeswara ji

Thanks, Paradesi ji and Mahadeswara ji. On checking the family in efloraofindia, I could track it upto Commiphora wightii (Arn.) Bhandari as per images and details herein and as per  https://plantslive.in/product/buy-commiphora-berryi-usuvaindian-balm-of-gilead-plant-online-india/ http://bonsaiclubofahmedabad.com/sales_detail.php?sales_id=115 https://www.desertcart.in/products/72901437-guggul-myrrh-tree-commiphora-wightii-exotic-caudex-mukul-bonsai-seed-5-seeds https://laidbackgardener.blog/2017/12/22/the-two-plants-of-the-magi/ https://www.flipkart.com/chamunda-greens-commiphora-wightii/p/itm33117aadfa00a ICAR But flowers look different as per  Images at Commiphora wightii (Arn.) Bhandari http://gardentia.sitewalla.com/2013/09/16/guggul/ Observations on Flowering and Fruiting in Commiphora wightii (Arnott) Bhandari

Could not find a match with other species listed in Flora of Peninsular India (namely Commiphora berryi, Commiphora caudata var. caudata, Commiphora caudata var. pubescens, Commiphora gileadensis, Commiphora myrrha, Commiphora stocksiana, Commiphora wightii)- from me

I was following this thread. I want to know a thing or two about bonsai :- does their stunted growth deform them? do leaves retain their characters? flowers and fruits should remain as in normal species, since they are sexual organs - isn't it? Flowers in this species seem to have staminal tube - so why not check for meliaceae member, for example - https://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20p?see=I_SP512&res=640 ? Thank you With regards surajit koley

Thanks for taking interest in this thread to unravel its identity .Regarding your queries,

1. No. the stunted growth does not deform the plant but it  manifest  in miniature forms. 2. Sure. 3. Yes they remain in normal form.   Meanwhile I am asking the sender of these photographs  to allow the plant to grow on its own without clipping the plant parts. Let us see what happens.  Regards, Dr.Mahadeswara Swamy

However, your answers no. 1 & 2 imply -  this species wouldn't be a Meliaceae member, because they mostly have pinnate leaves with entire margins of leaflets.

Please do not waste your time on Meliaceae.

Thank you With regards surajit koley

I have another suggestion, if I may - please think of it before any search or allotting your time to it -  What about the probability of a rutaceae member? (since I think some of those flowers also look similar, and they are used for bonsai, and the flower colour in your species is actually greenish-white, not yellow.! And also take care of those green-turning-orange fruit in your pic no MG-20210518-WA0018).

I still cannot get rid of meliaceae though! Just check some fruit pics -  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munronia http://www.plantsoftheworldonline.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:26792-1 The problem area is crenate leaf (or leaflets?)

Thank you With regards surajit koley

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

[surajit koley]

I have this one in my mind and I will inform when I would be ready to give up!

Meanwhile another guess  https://www.kew.org/science/tropamerica/neotropikey/families/Symplocaceae.htm (please scroll down to bottom to see the last picture).

But the problem is fruits are different in Symplocos, at best I could do is - https://www.morphosource.org/concern/biological_specimens/000S24715?locale=en

Thank you

With regards

surajit koley

[Mahadeswara]

Many many thanks for  going deep into the subject to find it's ID.  Wait for your final ID.