is Kaim Srikirishna's Kadmba
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Abhay Tiwari
Apr 14, 2009, 4:37:40 AM4/14/09
to indian...@googlegroups.com
Friends,
Here is a picture of Kaim flower. The Tree stands in the Chhota Kashmir, Aare Colony, Mumbai.
Is this Kaim -Mitragyna Parvifolia- The Sri Krishna Kadamba, under which he used to play his intoxicating flute, as Pradeep Krishan writes in his book- Trees of Delhi? Or that is the other Kadmaba - Neolamarkcia cadamba ?
Abhay
Here is a picture of Kaim flower. The Tree stands in the Chhota Kashmir, Aare Colony, Mumbai.
Is this Kaim -Mitragyna Parvifolia- The Sri Krishna Kadamba, under which he used to play his intoxicating flute, as Pradeep Krishan writes in his book- Trees of Delhi? Or that is the other Kadmaba - Neolamarkcia cadamba ?
Abhay
Dinesh Valke
Apr 14, 2009, 5:51:36 AM4/14/09
to Abhay Tiwari, indian...@googlegroups.com
.... Neolamarkcia cadamba is what I think is associated with Lord Krishna.
Regards.
sibdas
Apr 14, 2009, 11:02:38 AM4/14/09
to indiantreepix
We had a long discussion on this matter earlier. Some are in favour
calling Mitragyna as the real Kadamba associated with Lord Krishna,
as this plant only now can be found in the mathura- vrindavan rgion
and the mitragyna is called Krishna kaddam. But I am in favour of
Neolamarckia cadamba . The plant was first named as Nauclea cadamba by
Roxburgh, later changed to Anthocephalus cadamba (Rox) Miq. and
finally now Neolamarckia kadamba (Rox) Bosser. This is universally
referrred as Kadamba (not kaddam or Krishna Kaddam). Earlier paintings
give an impression in its favour. The argument against it is that this
plant does not grow in Mathura- Vrindavan region. However, it is not
consideed that the climate in this region was completely different
4000 years earlier in the Age of Lord Krishna. The Sacred river
Saraswati was flowing nearby apart from Yamuna. Paleao-palynological
(fossil pollens) evidence suggest quite clearly that real Kadamba, and
other plants which love wet climate as Tamal were abundant in this
area. Perhaps Mitragyna was not at all present there at that time. It
invaded the region when the area became much drier
On Apr 14, 2:51 pm, Dinesh Valke <dinesh.va...@gmail.com> wrote:
> .... *Neolamarkcia cadamba* is what I think is associated with Lord Krishna.
> > Abhay- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
calling Mitragyna as the real Kadamba associated with Lord Krishna,
as this plant only now can be found in the mathura- vrindavan rgion
and the mitragyna is called Krishna kaddam. But I am in favour of
Neolamarckia cadamba . The plant was first named as Nauclea cadamba by
Roxburgh, later changed to Anthocephalus cadamba (Rox) Miq. and
finally now Neolamarckia kadamba (Rox) Bosser. This is universally
referrred as Kadamba (not kaddam or Krishna Kaddam). Earlier paintings
give an impression in its favour. The argument against it is that this
plant does not grow in Mathura- Vrindavan region. However, it is not
consideed that the climate in this region was completely different
4000 years earlier in the Age of Lord Krishna. The Sacred river
Saraswati was flowing nearby apart from Yamuna. Paleao-palynological
(fossil pollens) evidence suggest quite clearly that real Kadamba, and
other plants which love wet climate as Tamal were abundant in this
area. Perhaps Mitragyna was not at all present there at that time. It
invaded the region when the area became much drier
On Apr 14, 2:51 pm, Dinesh Valke <dinesh.va...@gmail.com> wrote:
> .... *Neolamarkcia cadamba* is what I think is associated with Lord Krishna.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Dinesh Valke
Apr 14, 2009, 11:46:00 AM4/14/09
to sibdas, indiantreepix
Thanks very much Sibdas ji
I never thought of the scientific aspect of it at all ... definitely enlightening thoughts.
My thoughts are solely based on the paintings by religious artists.
... especillay that depict Bal Krishna on a leaf
... this leaf resembles that of the Kadamba.
I have also seen kadamba leaves extra-ordinarily large
... measuring about 1 ft x 1½ ft ... hope this does not sound exaggerated !!!!
[ Vasudeva had used this leaf (or could be leaves) ... spread on the base of basket in which he carried the Lord to Mathura to escape notice of Kamsa ]
And then the tree may have many more citations in the holy epic.
Abhay Tiwari
Apr 14, 2009, 11:57:15 AM4/14/09
to Dinesh Valke, indian...@googlegroups.com
My doubts are alive about the true Kadamba. Nevertheless I'll quote Pradeep Krishan from his book - "Tree of Delhi". He writes -
"This is the true 'Kadamba' tree associated with Brindavan and Krishna's Gopis... Many tree books will tell you that the kadamba associated with Lord Krishna in Brindavan is Neolamarckia cadamba. This is a case of mistaken identity. Neolamarcika cadamba is native to moist forest in NE India and would not survive in the hot, dry Brindavan area. Kaim is not only native to the (remnant) Brindavan forest but is their dominant tree. Clinchingly, everyone in Brindavan calls Kaim 'Kadamba'. Time to revise some of those old books."
from Tree of Delhi, page 148-149
sibdas
Apr 14, 2009, 12:30:39 PM4/14/09
to indiantreepix
That is interesting once again. The Kadamba trees when young, are
5-10 feet in height , may have very large leaves, measuring often as
you mentioned 1ft x 1.5 ft. The leaves get smaller with the age, and
you may guess the age of a Kadamba plant just from the size of the
leaves.
On Apr 14, 8:57 pm, Abhay Tiwari <abhay...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My doubts are alive about the true Kadamba. Nevertheless I'll quote Pradeep
> Krishan from his book - "Tree of Delhi". He writes -
>
> "This is the true 'Kadamba' tree associated with Brindavan and Krishna's
> Gopis... Many tree books will tell you that the kadamba associated with Lord
> Krishna in Brindavan is *Neolamarckia cadamba.* This is a case of mistaken
>
>
>
> > .... *Neolamarkcia cadamba* is what I think is associated with Lord
> > Krishna.
> > Regards.
5-10 feet in height , may have very large leaves, measuring often as
you mentioned 1ft x 1.5 ft. The leaves get smaller with the age, and
you may guess the age of a Kadamba plant just from the size of the
leaves.
On Apr 14, 8:57 pm, Abhay Tiwari <abhay...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My doubts are alive about the true Kadamba. Nevertheless I'll quote Pradeep
> Krishan from his book - "Tree of Delhi". He writes -
>
> "This is the true 'Kadamba' tree associated with Brindavan and Krishna's
> Gopis... Many tree books will tell you that the kadamba associated with Lord
> identity. Neolamarcika cadamba is native to moist forest in NE India and
> would not survive in the hot, dry Brindavan area. Kaim is not only native to
> the (remnant) Brindavan forest but is their dominant tree. Clinchingly,
> everyone in Brindavan calls Kaim 'Kadamba'. Time to revise some of those old
> books."
> * *
> would not survive in the hot, dry Brindavan area. Kaim is not only native to
> the (remnant) Brindavan forest but is their dominant tree. Clinchingly,
> everyone in Brindavan calls Kaim 'Kadamba'. Time to revise some of those old
> books."
> from Tree of Delhi, page 148-149
>
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 3:21 PM, Dinesh Valke <dinesh.va...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
> > .... *Neolamarkcia cadamba* is what I think is associated with Lord
> > Krishna.
> > Regards.
>
> > On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Abhay Tiwari <abhay...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >> Friends,
>
> >> Here is a picture of Kaim flower. The Tree stands in the Chhota Kashmir,
> >> Aare Colony, Mumbai.
>
> >> Is this Kaim -Mitragyna Parvifolia- The Sri Krishna Kadamba, under which
> >> he used to play his intoxicating flute, as Pradeep Krishan writes in his
> >> book- Trees of Delhi? Or that is the other Kadmaba - Neolamarkcia cadamba ?
>
> > On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Abhay Tiwari <abhay...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >> Friends,
>
> >> Here is a picture of Kaim flower. The Tree stands in the Chhota Kashmir,
> >> Aare Colony, Mumbai.
>
> >> Is this Kaim -Mitragyna Parvifolia- The Sri Krishna Kadamba, under which
> >> he used to play his intoxicating flute, as Pradeep Krishan writes in his
> >> book- Trees of Delhi? Or that is the other Kadmaba - Neolamarkcia cadamba ?
>
Dinesh Valke
Apr 14, 2009, 12:31:52 PM4/14/09
to Abhay Tiwari, indian...@googlegroups.com
.... all views are well regarded !!!
Those in doubt (including Abhay ji) may have to re-search !!! and settle with what convinces each one's self the best.
Facts of some eon(s) ago are not easily available and we can at the most welcome and digest interesting views.
Abhay Tiwari
Apr 14, 2009, 12:39:53 PM4/14/09
to indiantreepix
didn't see replies by Sibdas and Dinesh beofre I added my own. Both of
them have fair points.
I want to add two point in favour of Mitragyna-
1. Its not very advisable to stand under Neolamarkcia Cadamba; the
ripe fruits keep falling and soiling anything under it. It is doubtful
that anyone can play flute peacefully under it. Neolamarkcia stands in
front of my family house in Kanpur; I've first hand experience of it.
2. I remember some stray reference in Krishna's tale of gops playing
with Kadamba fruit. Its almost impossible to play with Neolamarkcia
Cadamba while Mitragyna is much smaller in comparison yet hard enough
to play with.
> > Krishna.
> > Regards.
them have fair points.
I want to add two point in favour of Mitragyna-
1. Its not very advisable to stand under Neolamarkcia Cadamba; the
ripe fruits keep falling and soiling anything under it. It is doubtful
that anyone can play flute peacefully under it. Neolamarkcia stands in
front of my family house in Kanpur; I've first hand experience of it.
2. I remember some stray reference in Krishna's tale of gops playing
with Kadamba fruit. Its almost impossible to play with Neolamarkcia
Cadamba while Mitragyna is much smaller in comparison yet hard enough
to play with.
> My doubts are alive about the true Kadamba. Nevertheless I'll quote Pradeep
> Krishan from his book - "Tree of Delhi". He writes -
>
> "This is the true 'Kadamba' tree associated with Brindavan and Krishna's
> Gopis... Many tree books will tell you that the kadamba associated with Lord
> Krishna in Brindavan is *Neolamarckia cadamba.* This is a case of mistaken
> Krishan from his book - "Tree of Delhi". He writes -
>
> "This is the true 'Kadamba' tree associated with Brindavan and Krishna's
> Gopis... Many tree books will tell you that the kadamba associated with Lord
> identity. Neolamarcika cadamba is native to moist forest in NE India and
> would not survive in the hot, dry Brindavan area. Kaim is not only native to
> the (remnant) Brindavan forest but is their dominant tree. Clinchingly,
> everyone in Brindavan calls Kaim 'Kadamba'. Time to revise some of those old
> books."
> * *
> would not survive in the hot, dry Brindavan area. Kaim is not only native to
> the (remnant) Brindavan forest but is their dominant tree. Clinchingly,
> everyone in Brindavan calls Kaim 'Kadamba'. Time to revise some of those old
> books."
> from Tree of Delhi, page 148-149
>
> > .... *Neolamarkcia cadamba* is what I think is associated with Lord
>
> > Krishna.
> > Regards.
>
> > On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Abhay Tiwari <abhay...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >> Friends,
>
> >> Here is a picture of Kaim flower. The Tree stands in the Chhota Kashmir,
> >> Aare Colony, Mumbai.
>
> >> Is this Kaim -Mitragyna Parvifolia- The Sri Krishna Kadamba, under which
> >> he used to play his intoxicating flute, as Pradeep Krishan writes in his
> >> book- Trees of Delhi? Or that is the other Kadmaba - Neolamarkcia cadamba ?
>
> > On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Abhay Tiwari <abhay...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >> Friends,
>
> >> Here is a picture of Kaim flower. The Tree stands in the Chhota Kashmir,
> >> Aare Colony, Mumbai.
>
> >> Is this Kaim -Mitragyna Parvifolia- The Sri Krishna Kadamba, under which
> >> he used to play his intoxicating flute, as Pradeep Krishan writes in his
> >> book- Trees of Delhi? Or that is the other Kadmaba - Neolamarkcia cadamba ?
>
Anand Kumar Bhatt
Apr 26, 2009, 2:32:18 PM4/26/09
to Abhay Tiwari, indiantreepix
A local resident of Vrindavan (malyada I think) confirmed that it is
kaim and not Kadamba which is native to that area, and recently a
large number of kaim trees planted there. The old link is:
http://mail.google.com/mail/?hl=en&tab=wm#search/kaim+and+kadamba/11b2a96fda643c3b
Best wishes,
akbhatt
~~~~~~~~~~~~
--
Anand Kumar Bhatt
A-59, B.S.F.Colony, Airport Road
Gwalior. 474 005.
Tele: 0751-247 2233. Mobile 0 94253 09780.
My blogsite is at:
http://anandkbhatt.blogspot.com
And the photo site:
www.flickr.com/photos/akbhatt/
kaim and not Kadamba which is native to that area, and recently a
large number of kaim trees planted there. The old link is:
http://mail.google.com/mail/?hl=en&tab=wm#search/kaim+and+kadamba/11b2a96fda643c3b
Best wishes,
akbhatt
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anand Kumar Bhatt
A-59, B.S.F.Colony, Airport Road
Gwalior. 474 005.
Tele: 0751-247 2233. Mobile 0 94253 09780.
My blogsite is at:
http://anandkbhatt.blogspot.com
And the photo site:
www.flickr.com/photos/akbhatt/
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