ID request-181010-PKA1

26 views
Skip to first unread message

Prashant awale

unread,
Oct 18, 2010, 5:11:25 AM10/18/10
to indiantreepix
 
Dear Friends,
This i found in the rock crevices at the altitude of approx. 11500 ft on the way to Hampta pass. Flowers were very attractive in appearance. Enclosing the snaps of flowers, leaves and stem.
 
Date/Time: 27-09-2010 / 09:45AM
Location: On the way to Hampta Pass at approx. 11500 ft altitude
Habitat: Wild
Plant Habit: Herb
Stem reddish brown, hairy
 
regards
Prashant
IMG_1342cr.jpg
IMG_1343side.jpg
IMG_1341.jpg
IMG_1342leafstem.jpg
IMG_1343.jpg
IMG_1344.jpg

shrikant ingalhalikar

unread,
Oct 18, 2010, 5:30:40 AM10/18/10
to efloraofindia
Can't make out if the stigma is 3 fid/lobed. Could be Campanula
pallida but not sure. Regards, Shrikant
>  IMG_1342cr.jpg
> 133KViewDownload
>
>  IMG_1343side.jpg
> 166KViewDownload
>
>  IMG_1341.jpg
> 191KViewDownload
>
>  IMG_1342leafstem.jpg
> 159KViewDownload
>
>  IMG_1343.jpg
> 168KViewDownload
>
>  IMG_1344.jpg
> 173KViewDownload

Gurcharan Singh

unread,
Oct 18, 2010, 9:48:00 AM10/18/10
to shrikant ingalhalikar, efloraofindia
The plant is interesting with pinkish flowers. A species of Campanula. Prashant ji could you recollect and tell us the size of flowers


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

Gurcharan Singh

unread,
Oct 18, 2010, 10:01:18 AM10/18/10
to shrikant ingalhalikar, efloraofindia
Flower colour and leaves suggest C. pallida var. pallida (syn: C. colorata)


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

Gurcharan Singh

unread,
Oct 18, 2010, 12:15:10 PM10/18/10
to efloraofindia


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:51160] Re: ID request-181010-PKA1
To: Prashant awale <pka...@gmail.com>, Flowers of India <flowers...@gmail.com>


Prashant ji
The flower colour in this species shows considerable variation, but yours matches well with one FOI. Your plant seems to be somewhat drying up. Here is mine with lighter colours from Manali.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 8:01 AM, Prashant awale <pka...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Gurcharan Singh ji,
The flower size what i recollect was bit small, less than a cm. Flowers were light pink in colour. The leaves, calyx and stems were hairy.

The images of Campanula pallida available on net some how i could not find it to be tallying with my photos. But description wise, the ID suggested by you seems to be o.k.

Also have a look at  photo  on FOI site ( http://www.flowersofindia.net/catalog/slides/Purple%20Bellflower.html ) .

regards
Prashant
Campanula-colorata-Manali-1.jpg

Tabish

unread,
Oct 18, 2010, 1:55:56 PM10/18/10
to efloraofindia, Tabish
It is good for me that this flower came under discussion. I spent
hours yesterday in sorting out some Campanula species. Prashant's
plant is, I think, Campanula pallida var. pallida (Syn: Campanula
colorata). According to Flora of Pakistan, flowers of Campanula
pallida var. pallida are purple to light purple. It should be the same
as what is there on FOI (the link posted by Prashant). We found this
plant again at Dhanaulti, this month.
Gurcharan ji's flower is, I think, Campanula pallida var. tibetica,
which, according to Flora of Pakistan, has bluish-white or pale-blue
flowers. I have seen this plant in Nainital.
Critical comments are needed, for me to be confident.
Best wishes
- Tabish

On Oct 18, 9:15 pm, Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 9:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:51160] Re: ID request-181010-PKA1
> To: Prashant awale <pkaw...@gmail.com>, Flowers of India <
> flowersofin...@gmail.com>
>
> Prashant ji
> The flower colour in this species shows considerable variation, but yours
> matches well with one FOI. Your plant seems to be somewhat drying up. Here
> is mine with lighter colours from Manali.
>
> --
> Dr. Gurcharan Singh
> Retired  Associate Professor
> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
> Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/
>
> On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 8:01 AM, Prashant awale <pkaw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Gurcharan Singh ji,
> > The flower size what i recollect was bit small, less than a cm. Flowers
> > were light pink in colour. The leaves, calyx and stems were hairy.
>
> > The images of Campanula pallida available on net some how i could not find
> > it to be tallying with my photos. But description wise, the ID suggested by
> > you seems to be o.k.
>
> > Also have a look at  photo  on FOI site (
> >http://www.flowersofindia.net/catalog/slides/Purple%20Bellflower.html) .
>
> > regards
> > Prashant
>
> > On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >> The plant is interesting with pinkish flowers. A species of Campanula.
> >> Prashant ji could you recollect and tell us the size of flowers
>
> >> --
> >> Dr. Gurcharan Singh
> >> Retired  Associate Professor
> >> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
> >> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
> >> Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
> >>http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/<http://people.du.ac.in/%7Esinghg45/>
>  Campanula-colorata-Manali-1.jpg
> 109KViewDownload

Tabish

unread,
Oct 18, 2010, 2:05:58 PM10/18/10
to efloraofindia, Tabish
Here are the flowers seen by me. First pale one, from Mussoorie (not
from Nainital, as I said earlier). Second one from Dhanaulti.
Best wishes
- Tabish

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tabish Qureshi                       Phone: 011-26981753, 32959320(res)
Department of Physics                 Email: tabi...@jmi.ac.in
Jamia Millia Islamia               Webpage: http://tabish.freeshell.org
New Delhi - 110025.
http://www.jamia-physics.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Campanula_pallida-a.jpg
Campanula_pallida-b.jpg

Tabish

unread,
Oct 18, 2010, 2:16:56 PM10/18/10
to efloraofindia
One second thought, my image Campanula_pallida-b shows a corolla which
is not as deeply lobed as in Campanula_pallida-a or in
http://www.flowersofindia.net/catalog/slides/Purple%20Bellflower.html
I would like to ask Shrikant ji in particular, if it could be
Campanula dimorphantha, as I don't have any experience with the
species.
- Tabish
> Department of Physics                 Email: tabish...@jmi.ac.in
> Jamia Millia Islamia               Webpage:http://tabish.freeshell.org
> New Delhi - 110025.http://www.jamia-physics.net
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>  Campanula_pallida-a.jpg
> 166KViewDownload
>
>  Campanula_pallida-b.jpg
> 158KViewDownload

Gurcharan Singh

unread,
Oct 18, 2010, 2:17:41 PM10/18/10
to Tabish, efloraofindia
One thing is sure, my and Tabish ji's plants (at least the first photograph) are same. The calyx is deeply cut but the base does not seem to be broadened and overlapping, rather there is a broad obtuse sinus between the calyx lobes. The colour is, however, matching.

Perhaps more research is needed.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 
Department of Physics                 Email: tabish.ph@jmi.ac.in

Jamia Millia Islamia               Webpage: http://tabish.freeshell.org
New Delhi - 110025.
http://www.jamia-physics.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gurcharan Singh

unread,
Oct 18, 2010, 2:30:06 PM10/18/10
to Tabish, efloraofindia
But then the other important comment in FBI is very relevant for our plant. When I photographed this plant from, somehow it looked different to me from C. colorata collected so often by me from Kashmir. The flower looked semi-inferior , a comment appropriate from var. tibetica in FBI.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

Tabish

unread,
Oct 18, 2010, 2:35:57 PM10/18/10
to efloraofindia
Gurcharan ji,
I am sorry, I do not know what semi-inferior means - could you
explain it for semi-botanists/non-botanists? :-)
- Tabish

On Oct 18, 11:30 pm, Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> But then the other important comment in FBI is very relevant for our plant.
> When I photographed this plant from, somehow it looked different to me from
> C. colorata collected so often by me from Kashmir. The flower looked
> semi-inferior , a comment appropriate from var. tibetica in FBI.
>
> --
> Dr. Gurcharan Singh
> Retired  Associate Professor
> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
> Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/
>
> On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 11:17 AM, Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > One thing is sure, my and Tabish ji's plants (at least the first
> > photograph) are same. The calyx is deeply cut but the base does not seem to
> > be broadened and overlapping, rather there is a broad obtuse sinus between
> > the calyx lobes. The colour is, however, matching.
>
> > Perhaps more research is needed.
>
> > --
>
> > Dr. Gurcharan Singh
> > Retired  Associate Professor
> > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
> > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
> > Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
> >http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/
>
> > On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Tabish <tabi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Here are the flowers seen by me. First pale one, from Mussoorie (not
> >> from Nainital, as I said earlier). Second one from Dhanaulti.
> >>   Best wishes
> >>    - Tabish
>
> >> Department of Physics                 Email: tabish...@jmi.ac.in

Gurcharan Singh

unread,
Oct 18, 2010, 3:07:19 PM10/18/10
to Tabish, efloraofindia
Tabish ji
In most of the flowers (Hibiscus, Stellaria, Allium, Ranunculus) if we see the flower from the top you can see the whole ovary (which forms fruit) together with style and stigma. They have superior ovary and in many cases the calyx (tomato, brinjal) is at the base of the fruit. This is superior ovary. In others like Eucalyptus, apple, pear, Canna, umbellifers the ovary is fused and lookes immersed, and when we look at the flower from the top we can't see ovary, we see only style and stigma. In fruits the scar or persistent calyx is at the top and not base. They have inferior ovary. In Prashant ji's photographs you can see some fruits formed and the calyx teeth are at the top of the fruit (the swollen structure below teeth). If look at your first photograph, in one flower the ovary is partially visible from the top, such flowers which have some part of the ovary fused with calyx and some visible above the calyx tube have semi-inferior ovary.

I hope I have been able to express myself to your understanding.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

Pankaj Kumar

unread,
Oct 18, 2010, 3:12:03 PM10/18/10
to Tabish, efloraofindia
I believe all the three flowers shared here are same. Need to do some
research for the id.
Wwhen ovary is at the highest position (petals and sepals arising from
position below the ovary. Ovary is placed on thalamus) then it is
called Superior Ovary. But there are times when ovary is placed inside
a cup shaped thalamus with petals and sepals at the margins of the
thalamus, then the ovary is called Semi inferior. In inferior ovary,
thalamus surrounds the ovary completely and petals and sepals are
placed on the top.

Pankaj

--
***********************************************
"TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!"


Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae)
Research Associate
Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project
Department of Habitat Ecology
Wildlife Institute of India
Post Box # 18
Dehradun - 248001, India

Pankaj Kumar

unread,
Oct 18, 2010, 3:12:59 PM10/18/10
to Tabish, efloraofindia
Prashant sir's flowers look different just because it seems to be a
bit dried up and hence the petals are curled slightly.
Pankaj

Gurcharan Singh

unread,
Oct 18, 2010, 3:15:42 PM10/18/10
to Pankaj Kumar, Tabish, efloraofindia
Pankaj ji
I think we conveyed the same information to Tabish ji, in our own styles. Good research!!


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

Tabish

unread,
Oct 18, 2010, 3:21:00 PM10/18/10
to efloraofindia
Thanks to both Gurcharan ji and Pankaj, for the botanical
enlightenment! :-) Sepals in Prashant's flowers look much smaller,
whereas the sepals in Gurcharan ji's flowers and my whitish ones, are
quite long, almost comparable to the flower tube - because they are
spreading, the size is not starkly obvious.
- Tabish

--

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tabish Qureshi                       Phone: 011-26981753, 32959320(res)

Department of Physics                 Email: tabi...@jmi.ac.in

Gurcharan Singh

unread,
Oct 18, 2010, 3:48:20 PM10/18/10
to Tabish, efloraofindia
Yes Tabish ji
I agree with you. Let us see if something comes out.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

Department of Physics                 Email: tabish.ph@jmi.ac.in

Gurcharan Singh

unread,
Oct 18, 2010, 4:13:56 PM10/18/10
to Tabish, efloraofindia
Tabish ji
I think I got it
Our plant is perhaps C. cana Wall.







-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

Tabish

unread,
Oct 18, 2010, 4:24:53 PM10/18/10
to efloraofindia
Gurcharan ji,
I am tempted to agree with you on this, except that the corolla of
C. cana looks more campanulate (bell-shaped), whereas our flowers are
more towards funnel-shaped (narrower at the base). Otherwise,
agreement seems to be quite good. This species is found at altitudes
1200-3400 m, and it is not even mentioned in Polunin & Stainton!
- Tabish

>>> Department of Physics                 Email: tabi...@jmi.ac.in

Gurcharan Singh

unread,
Oct 18, 2010, 4:28:06 PM10/18/10
to Tabish, efloraofindia
The species is there in FBI, distributed in Western Himalayas. I was trying to identify from there but unfortunately there is little information in that.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

>>> Department of Physics                 Email: tabish.ph@jmi.ac.in

Pankaj Kumar

unread,
Oct 18, 2010, 4:30:35 PM10/18/10
to Tabish, efloraofindia
By the way, on looking at it again yes to me all of them are
semi-inferior as Dr. Gurcharan say.

Pankaj Kumar

unread,
Oct 18, 2010, 4:34:07 PM10/18/10
to Tabish, efloraofindia
By the way, when you talk about sepals, then Tabish sir please check
out sepals in your first picture, All sepals are different from each
other, so that part can be reliable for species establishment.
My net went off, so that message waited for long...... sorry about my
previous message.
Pankaj

Pankaj Kumar

unread,
Oct 18, 2010, 4:36:11 PM10/18/10
to Tabish, efloraofindia
No way, cant be C. cana. Those flowers are more belliforme!!
Yours are more open as Dr. Gurcharan says.

Pankaj

Pankaj Kumar

unread,
Oct 18, 2010, 4:36:50 PM10/18/10
to Tabish, efloraofindia
Sorry as, Dr. Tabish says !!
Pankaj

Prashant awale

unread,
Oct 18, 2010, 11:57:43 PM10/18/10
to Pankaj Kumar, Tabish, efloraofindia
I have few more photographs of Campanula sp photographed at around 10000 ft altitude. The size and colour of this flowers are different as compared the flowers initially posted by me. Kindly have a look at these snaps..
regards
Prashant
IMG_1269.jpg
IMG_1270cr.jpg
IMG_1270.jpg

Tabish

unread,
Oct 19, 2010, 12:33:42 AM10/19/10
to efloraofindia
Prashant,
This does look like Camapnula colorata (Campanula pallida var.
pallida) to me, unless you mention a disagreeable size. I think this
is the same as what we have here:
http://www.flowersofindia.net/catalog/slides/Purple%20Bellflower.html
- Tabish

On Oct 19, 8:57 am, Prashant awale <pkaw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have few more photographs of Campanula sp photographed at around 10000 ft
> altitude. The size and colour of this flowers are different as compared the
> flowers initially posted by me. Kindly have a look at these snaps..
> regards
> Prashant
>
> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 2:06 AM, Pankaj Kumar <sahanipan...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > Sorry as, Dr. Tabish says !!
> > Pankaj
>
> > On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 2:06 AM, Pankaj Kumar <sahanipan...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > No way, cant be C. cana. Those flowers are more belliforme!!
> > > Yours are more open as Dr. Gurcharan says.
>
> > > Pankaj
>
> > > On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 2:04 AM, Pankaj Kumar <sahanipan...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >> By the way, when you talk about sepals, then Tabish sir please check
> > >> out sepals in your first picture, All sepals are different from each
> > >> other, so that part can be reliable for species establishment.
> > >> My net went off, so that message waited for long...... sorry about my
> > >> previous message.
> > >> Pankaj
>
> > >> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 2:00 AM, Pankaj Kumar <sahanipan...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>> By the way, on looking at it again yes to me all of them are
> > >>> semi-inferior as Dr. Gurcharan say.
> > >>> Pankaj
>
> > >>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:42 AM, Pankaj Kumar <sahanipan...@gmail.com>
>  IMG_1269.jpg
> 163KViewDownload
>
>  IMG_1270cr.jpg
> 549KViewDownload
>
>  IMG_1270.jpg
> 154KViewDownload

Prashant awale

unread,
Oct 19, 2010, 1:13:41 AM10/19/10
to Tabish, efloraofindia
Dear Tabish,
I agree with u . In fact my latest post agrees well with FOI.  But   the initial post of this thread with light pink flowers were of visibly smaller in size as compared to my latest posts. Also the leaves were much more hirsute, bit thicker,  stems and calyx more hairy as compared to latest post. Probably these might just be variation due to altitude variation etc. and all  of these could be Campanula colorata (Campanula pallida var.
pallida) as mentioned by u and Dr Gurcharan Singh ji.  
 
Thanks to yourself, Dr Gurcharan Singh ji, Dr Pankaj Kumar ji for this useful discussion. Its a learning experience for people like us.
regards
Prashant

shrikant ingalhalikar

unread,
Oct 19, 2010, 2:01:25 AM10/19/10
to efloraofindia
Good, after a lot of brain storming my wild card ID seems validated.
My guess was not too wild. I have observed C. colorata on stone walls
of Sinhagad near Pune. The pecularity of this plant has been that
stamens in some flowers were missing or in some cases the corolla
itself was missing. The fruits get formed inside the calyx without any
corolla. C. dimorphantha is found on Purandar fort. I wonder about
what is dimorphic in the flowers of this sp. I am aware that this
thread has gone far enough but someone can help me sort out some loose
ends. Regards, Shrikant

Gurcharan Singh

unread,
Nov 7, 2010, 12:20:38 PM11/7/10
to shrikant ingalhalikar, Flowers of India, Tabish, efloraofindia, Dr. Pankaj Kumar
Tabish ji 
Even before replying to another mail on C. cana, I had initiated this mail. 
Today I chanced upon this link which prompts me to rethink on the above thread, and identity of above two sets of photographs uploaded by Prashant ji, and my plant from Manali, which I had initially identified as C. pallida, but subsequently C. cana provisionally.


If we look at the description in Flora of British India, Flora Simlensis, and the above link, one thing is clear: C. pallida var. pallida is a plant of lower altitudes and has narrower and longer calyx lobes, not overlapping at base. My plant from Manali and the plant on FOI as C. pallida var. tibetica satisfy this criteria and are according to me are C. pallida var. pallida (the plant at FOI as var. tibetica is from mussoorie, a much lower altitude for this variety). I have yet to see true C. pallida var. tibetica resembling above link.

For a moment forget flower colour. It may be purple or lighter. The first set of plants by Prashant ji is considerably dry, but second set is very clear. It has calyx lobes much broader like var. tibetica but they are clearly toothed along margin. Same is true for plant depicted at FOI as C. pallida var. pallida. For me both belong to Campanula cana, which according to FB has broader calyx lobes with toothed margin.

Your comments on these please



-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 
 



Tabish

unread,
Nov 7, 2010, 1:25:34 PM11/7/10
to Gurcharan Singh, shrikant ingalhalikar, Flowers of India, efloraofindia, Dr. Pankaj Kumar
Gurcharan ji,
I concur with your thinking that your plant from Manali and the
plant on FOI currently (will be corrected soon) as C. pallida var.
tibetica are actually *Campanula pallida var. pallida*.
Also, I agree that Prashant's flower and that on FOI currently as
Campanula pallida var. pallida appear to belong to the same species.
However, the sepals in the two sets may be better described as
triangular, instead of broadly lanceolate. According to Flora of
British India, the sepals of C. colorata (which is now considered a
synonym of C. pallida var. pallida) are described as
triangular-lanceolate to lanceolate. The sepals of C. cana are
described as broadly lanceolate. The sepals in both the sets, seem to
agree better (to my eye) with those in this picture of Campanula
colorata
http://plantsoftibet.lifedesks.org/image/view/2263/_original
rather than the sepals seen in these pictures of Campanual cana
http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=104630&flora_id=800
http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=104631&flora_id=800
It appears to me that C. pallida var. pallida has two types of plants
- one with narrow lanceshaped sepals and pale-purple or whitish
flowers - the other with more triangular sepals and purple flowers.
- Tabish

Gurcharan Singh

unread,
Nov 7, 2010, 1:47:24 PM11/7/10
to Tabish, shrikant ingalhalikar, Flowers of India, efloraofindia, Dr. Pankaj Kumar
Thank you Tabish ji
Please also give thought to distinctly toothed margin in both Prashant ji's second set and plant at FOI. 

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

Tabish

unread,
Nov 7, 2010, 1:57:13 PM11/7/10
to Gurcharan Singh, shrikant ingalhalikar, Flowers of India, efloraofindia, Dr. Pankaj Kumar
Gurcharan ji,
In F. Brit. Ind., the sepals of Campanula colorata are described as
"lanceolate or triangular lanceolate, entire or toothed". Sepals of
Campanula cana are also supposed to be coarsely toothed. So, I don't
know how toothedness would distinguish the two species.
- Tabish

Gurcharan Singh

unread,
Nov 7, 2010, 6:36:56 PM11/7/10
to Tabish, shrikant ingalhalikar, Flowers of India, efloraofindia, Dr. Pankaj Kumar
Ok Tabish ji
Let us hope we find truly representative C. cana some day. In the mean time we will also keep a watch on two types of our plants: Mine and FOI one with longer linear calyx lobes (which we have agreed to be C. pallida var. pallida); and the other on FOI and Prashant ji's plant with toothed broader calyx  lobes.

 By the way both latter specimens (C. pallida var. pallida of FOI; and Prashant ji's second set) have broader calyx lobes, and both growing above 10,000 ft. Won't it be more appropriate to call them var. tibetica (ignoring the flower colour, and imagining that calyx lobes in C. pallida can be toothed). Please give a thought to it.

 

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

Tabish

unread,
Nov 8, 2010, 12:03:52 PM11/8/10
to Gurcharan Singh, shrikant ingalhalikar, Flowers of India, efloraofindia, Dr. Pankaj Kumar
Gurcharan ji,
The same thought crossed my mind too. Sepals are broader and
toothed. But since the flower color doesn't agree well, and also the
it doesn't quite look the same as the pictures of C. pallida var.
tibetica in the link sent by you, I would desist from jumping to this
conclusion. However, thats a view worth giving more thought.
- Tabish

Tabish

unread,
Nov 8, 2010, 12:29:05 PM11/8/10
to Gurcharan Singh, shrikant ingalhalikar, Flowers of India, efloraofindia, Dr. Pankaj Kumar
Another reason why I would not go with Campanula pallida var. tibetica
right now, is that I think the sepals of that species are supposed to
be erect, and not spreading. The picture in this link:
http://www.planetefleurs.fr/Systematique/Campanulaceae/Campan16f.htm
and also this illustration
http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=86676&flora_id=5
show erect sepals.
- Tabish

Saroj Kumar Kasaju

unread,
Jan 2, 2021, 9:19:10 AMJan 2
to efloraofindia
Campanula argyrotricha Wall. ??
Thank you
Saroj Kasaju

J.M. Garg

unread,
Jan 2, 2021, 10:10:11 AMJan 2
to efloraofindia, Saroj Kasaju, Prashant awale
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/63295689-4ec7-4736-8cac-517635e3c932n%40googlegroups.com.


--
With regards,
J.M.Garg

JM Garg

unread,
Jan 7, 2021, 2:26:44 AMJan 7
to indian...@googlegroups.com, pka...@gmail.com, kasaj...@gmail.com, sing...@gmail.com, tab...@gmail.com
I think you are right, Saroj ji.
Yes, appears close as per images and details at Campanula argyrotricha  
IMG_1342cr.jpg
IMG_1343side.jpg
IMG_1341.jpg
IMG_1342leafstem.jpg
IMG_1343.jpg
IMG_1344.jpg

Saroj Kasaju

unread,
Jan 7, 2021, 2:34:45 AMJan 7
to JM Garg, indian...@googlegroups.com, pka...@gmail.com, sing...@gmail.com, tab...@gmail.com

Thank you Mr. Garg !

Saroj Kasaju

Saroj Kumar Kasaju

unread,
Jan 13, 2021, 12:29:20 AMJan 13
to efloraofindia
This made me confused : Campanula cashmeriana 
Thank you
Saroj Kasaju

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages