KAAS..Ata BAA...SS !

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arvind kadus

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Oct 4, 2010, 6:46:21 AM10/4/10
to indian...@googlegroups.com
KAAS..Ata BAA...SS !  Asach Mhanayachi Vel Aliye!
Here are some veiws showing how we Indian people are ! Now we have to say Ab Bass !!!
KAAS BACHAO ! Prevent to make it another PANCHGANI !
Last Sat Sunday 37000 people visited Kaas, This sat Sunday data yet to come ! Imagin how much quantity of the plants were distroyed by the people in these Sat Sundays!
Dr.Kadus Arvind, Pune.

Nature Vs Devolopment.JPG
Need to stop now!.JPG
Parking of approx 1 km line..JPG
People are coming with full of Buses.JPG
Photo Kadhanyachi Kewadhi Ti Haus !!.JPG
Smithia Crying !!.JPG
Traffic jam at KAAS..JPG
We have to Stop this !.JPG

Pankaj Kumar

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Oct 4, 2010, 7:28:27 AM10/4/10
to arvind kadus, indian...@googlegroups.com
Thats really sad!!!
Pankaj
--
***********************************************
"TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!"


Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae)
Research Associate
Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project
Department of Habitat Ecology
Wildlife Institute of India
Post Box # 18
Dehradun - 248001, India

nabha meghani

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Oct 4, 2010, 8:14:08 AM10/4/10
to Pankaj Kumar, arvind kadus, indian...@googlegroups.com
yes, it is sad indeed.
One "quick solition" to this can be to offer guided tours with busses in small groups. If people don't need to drive, and are offered the opportunity of learning about the flowers, taking fotos - certainly not in the middel of flowers -, do you think they may accept your invitation?
Is it atleast worth trying? if this effort fails, we can look for another solution.
When people want to take fotos, one can explain them, why they should not walk thru the flowers, by showing the fotos you have taken.
 
I am convinced that prohibiting something is of no use at all.
 
Nalini

gsuhas

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Oct 4, 2010, 1:03:12 PM10/4/10
to efloraofindia
Yes, you all said it. We need to save KAAS from uncontrolled mobs.
37000 a day ! Shall we come together who wish to save KAAS?
We need to make one common rules and regulation list and submit to
forest department. Already forest department has started working on
it. But we need to pressurise them so that next year will be
controlled year.


On Oct 4, 5:14 pm, "nabha meghani" <nabha-megh...@gmx.de> wrote:
> yes, it is sad indeed.
> One "quick solition" to this can be to offer guided tours with busses in small groups. If people don't need to drive, and are offered the opportunity of learning about the flowers, taking fotos - certainly not in the middel of flowers -, do you think they may accept your invitation?
> Is it atleast worth trying? if this effort fails, we can look for another solution.
> When people want to take fotos, one can explain them, why they should not walk thru the flowers, by showing the fotos you have taken.
>
> I am convinced that prohibiting something is of no use at all.
>
> Nalini
>
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Pankaj Kumar
>   To: arvind kadus
>
>   Cc: indian...@googlegroups.com
>   Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 1:28 PM
>   Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:49373] KAAS..Ata BAA...SS !
>
>   Thats really sad!!!
>   Pankaj
>
>   On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 4:16 PM, arvind kadus <agastiayur...@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
>
>           KAAS..Ata BAA...SS !  Asach Mhanayachi Vel Aliye!
>           Here are some veiws showing how we Indian people are ! Now we have to say Ab Bass !!!
>           KAAS BACHAO ! Prevent to make it another PANCHGANI !
>           Last Sat Sunday 37000 people visited Kaas, This sat Sunday data yet to come ! Imagin how much quantity of the plants were distroyed by the people in these Sat Sundays!
>           Dr.Kadus Arvind, Pune.
>
>   --
>   ***********************************************
>   "TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!"
>
>   Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae)
>   Research Associate
>   Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project
>   Department of Habitat Ecology
>   Wildlife Institute of India
>   Post Box # 18
>   Dehradun - 248001, India- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

arvind kadus

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Oct 4, 2010, 1:19:08 PM10/4/10
to indian...@googlegroups.com, Geeta Rane

Hi, Geeta ji,

Nice to read your thoughts regarding conservation. May be the people like Nature India are nice and knowledgeable, helping, and teaching the conservation with the different way, But what is actual meaning of conservation? Not disturbing or not destroying, is one of the best modes of conservation as per my thought. As per the issue of Kaas is concern this is an Ecosystem in which many small plants, animals, insects are living and dependant on each other. They are happy with each other, then why to interfere with them? Do you know some students of botany plucking out bulbs of ceropegia saying that we are taking it to the institute for tissue culture so that we can multiply the same and conserve this ceropegia. Do you mean that by this way we are going to conserve the species? For some species Ex Situ conservation seems to be impossible. Some layman are taking the flowers to their home for the decoration, is it right? Some people are sitting over the nice bunch of Smithia and making a design by destroying the flowers, Some Lovers are making Hearts by trampling the flowers and taking the photos which may be their memories but this is only for Man’s self satisfaction (Means? Unending...) and not for the other things, I thought. Some plants like Droseras are growing on the road sides, How many people know these things? Nobody! People are trampling these plants may be unintentionally. We can stop them by applying some restrictions. I am not saying that Kaas should be banned to man forever. But we can force Govt. to take  some Ecofriendly decisions to make Kaas again vary beautiful. Do you know there are some big deals  going on in the areas around the Kaas? What indicates this? There is a very big Threat of commercialization of this area. This may cause hazardous effects to this ecosystem. Some species like Aponogeton satareansis, Eulalia shrirangi are endemic to Satara only. 14 sp. are declared critically endangered. In Panchagani there are some species reported earlier but we cannot found right now. In Mahabaleshwar some plants are reported abundant in Cook’s references, But right now we have to search for a single plant. God knows how many species of plants and insects are vanished because of this tourism! If this tourism continues, the day is no longer to become Kaas, as Panchagani or Mahabaleshwar. I agree, the people like conservators, taxonomist, botanist, Students, Nature Lovers are trying or giving their contribution always with different ways. Ways of conservation may be different, but our AIM is the same!!

   I am always with the people who care and conserve the Nature!

Extremely sorry if you get hurt by any statement of me. But these are my thoughts, I may be different.

Thanx.

Dr. Kadus Arvind,Pune.

·         I will send afterwards the copy of appeal, suggestions made to Govt. and forest dept. by the activists from Satara and Kolhapur.  

--- On Mon, 4/10/10, Geeta Rane <hobb...@gmail.com> wrote:


From: Geeta Rane <hobb...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:49371] KAAS..Ata BAA...SS !
To: "arvind kadus" <agasti...@yahoo.co.in>
Cc: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>, "ushaprabha page" <ushapra...@gmail.com>, sahani...@gmail.com, ss1...@yahoo.com, "Shrikant Ingalhalikar" <le...@rediffmail.com>, yogesh...@gmail.com, nabha-...@gmx.de
Date: Monday, 4 October, 2010, 6:00 PM

Greetings,
Thanks for sharing your pix of Kaas,
To me the concern of conservation; need to react in right words/way,

I'm sharing here my personal experience during visit to Kaas with NatureIndia.

 Belive me I was at Kaas betwen 24th & 26th sept 2010 i.e. last saturday/sunday, we were 23. Have noted all this during our trails too.

I salute the organiser Nature India-Mr Mandarji  & Mr Adeshji for their efforts to make layman like me  to understand the need of  conservation in a simple words: Appreciate, Respect & Conserve:  with the help of their resource persons, this time Prof Shinde of St Xeviers' college.

Person wondering what we have to do understanding the name, etc at the end appreciated it.this is beginning to me.....

Nature India; were not screaming all the time to save our mother nature-Kaas; but they were involving us to enhance our interest & participation  to understand the beauty, colour, lifestyle,struggle of these tiny flowers,why they are here in big numbers, etc. this made us understand & remember the names, apart from this, they taught us to appreciate at least & I agree whole heartedly when we appreciate we give respect and this respect transforms to conservation, it may be personal relationship or the nature,

eg. for flowers; Tulsi,Gulab,mogra, they are appreciated by us- common people and hence the  care for them is taken by heart.

Thay also had aranged a meeting with local activitist Dr Shrotri, who are working to safeguard the interest of visitors as well strong promotional activity for kaas.
 
Because of some family matters which require prime attention, I have failed to write on my trips to VOF & this Kaas,too, but could not stop sharing my thoughts not to criticise anyone here but purely my personal experience. while handling local issues eg Shri Ganesh festival, Dahihandi,youngsters standing in our campus wasting lot of their time gossiping, playing songs on mobile in loudspeaker mode, scraming for no reason, etc.

I realised while I was with Mr Adeshji and Mr Mandarji that first u try and appreciate with appreciations the respect comes and respect authomatically conserves the interest.

Belive me this is not at all to promote the Nature India group but it is fact about these two gentelmen; who are  young  at age and kind at heart, working very very hard for the conservation. at the same time, it is their bread & butter.hence avoided writing at group.

In the nutshell; I want to say that it is sad indeed! but not impossible as Nalini madam said in right words; May be difficult  but why not try  to share our experiences/storeis/tripreports with our near and dear ones.

If possible please forgive me for my overreactions, if any &  if it has heart your sentiments,
Thanks for bearing my long note,
With Regards,
geeta rane

satyendra tiwari

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Oct 4, 2010, 8:11:05 PM10/4/10
to gsuhas, indian...@googlegroups.com
i had been to similar places in wales and cumbria in uk. where u walk on trails / pugdundee. and because that society is a law obidient society so they dont have any problem there. but those trails were made in such a zigzag way that a visitor gets the chance to see most of the flora.
same thing can be done here.
37000/ is good number for raising the awarenes. 

--
Satyendra K.Tiwari.
Wildlife Photographer, Naturalist, Tour Leader
H.NO 139, P.O.Tala, Distt Umariya.
M.P. India 484-661
To know more about Bandhavgarh visit following links.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/satyendraphotography
http://tigerdiaries.blogspot.com
http://skayscamp.wetpaint.com
SKAY'S CAMP is awarded QUALITY rating by Tour Operator For Tigers (TOFT). http://www.toftigers.org/accommodation/Default.aspx?id=15
Review Skay's Camp on TripAdvisor
00-91-7627-265309 or 09425331209

Lavkumar Khachar

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Oct 4, 2010, 9:07:57 PM10/4/10
to satyendra tiwari, gsuhas, indian...@googlegroups.com
Not "sad", DISGUSTING.

Lavkumar Khachar.

mani nair

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Oct 5, 2010, 12:35:08 AM10/5/10
to Lavkumar Khachar, satyendra tiwari, gsuhas, indian...@googlegroups.com

Yes, I agree with Satyendra ji, there should be some walking trails from where people can enjoy the beautify of the flowers without touching it.    There should be signboards everywhere about the ill effects of destruction of plants and flowers.   Everyone should be charged for the trail and there should be some control as to the number of people visiting the area each day.

Regards,

Mani.

shrikant ingalhalikar

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Oct 5, 2010, 1:15:33 AM10/5/10
to efloraofindia
Dear All,

I am repeating my comments posted else where some time back.
Incidently only Mr. Oudhia responded with concern on it (Loss to
Iphigenia stellata). In the recent pictures no car is seen off the
road and inspite of all the inconvenience they seem to be parked in
descipline. When you are within a crowd of 37K, no point complaining
about mob mentality. Please excuse me for this comment but instead of
pointing at the 'other idiot' (just a phrase) each one should refrain
from visiting on a peak flowering day. I refused to go as a resource
person with 3 groups and all went on the same Sunday. Kas is a great
place to go any time and many times.

First of all pls trust that I am with the sentiments of members over
conservation of Kas heritage. I have been watching this location for
the past 35 years for its flora. I wish to assure everyone that Kas
flora diversity and distribution has not changed a bit in the last 35
years. This is in spite of trampling, burning, grazing and other
local
interventions over infinite years. Most of the plants here have
rhizomes, tubers or bulbs that remain safe under the ground to sprout
in the next monsoon. Plants regenerating from seeds are abundent and
plucking by a few over enthusiasts makes a little or no difference to
their re-appearance. Plants said to have some use are plucked the
most.


The only plant that may be facing a threat is Iphigenia stellata. In
July when other plants are not in bloom and Kas is deserted, several
people arrive at Kas early morniing and dig out plants with tubers. A
plant per 1 sq m is dug out and taken away for medicinal use. Its
fortunate (?) that the plant still sprouts each year to be collected
next year. I am hence srictly against spelling out any uses for any
plant; and on top of it people think wild plants have more potency
than the cultivated ones. Why can't they grow such plants in their
fields?


The most concerning part is the thronging of enthusiasts in great
numbers on a particular day. The facilities certainly can not cope up
to accomodate 5000 vehicles and 20,000 visitors. (As reported on 19
th
Sept) Every visitor thinks that others should not have come. Best
way
to enjoy Kas in such a situations is to avoid peak hours and to avoid
peak crowding days. If local businessmen see a huge crowd thronging,
they are bound to cash on the needs of visitors. Unfortunetely the
crowd is creating the market for resorts, eating houses and stalls.
As
such the influx of visitors (and even this concern) fades away with
the bloom of flowers and in other months no one cares to stop at Kas
plateau. I have stopped going to Kas for the last few years. There
are
many plateaus around but they are not accessible by car like Kas.


Putting up a board to show the exact location is not necessary;
people
who know the plants don't miss it but why attract even the ignorant
ones? Every time conservation issue is raised, the forest dept (or I
do not know who) takes up tree plantation at any site. Kas is no
exception to this disaster. Several Silver Oaks can be seen planted
on
the plateau proudly by some one. Putting up a fence to prevent
movement of people and cattle also can be harmful. The famous valley
of flowers is grossly invaded by Polygonum and Impatiens due to such
restrictions.


Littering is a problem with visitors but thats a national problem. We
can only reduce it with volutary help. Many local groups await help
from visitors on this issue. A meet of Kas lovers in an off season
month to pick garbage will be very useful. Action beyond just
complaining is welcome.


Developement in terms of mining and wind mills would be disastrous
but
I am sure Kas will be spared from such invasion. Every location
suited
for a non polluting non conventional energy resource is bound to be
on
a plateau and is bound to have some flora and fauna. A balanced
approach rather than a total ban would resolve this issue. As such
the
wind mill site gets under tight security after the installation. It
would be worthwhile to find out how the the flora and fauna has
changed there after a few years of isolation.


No one can resist going to Kas and posting the spectacle on Orkut,
Facebook or Google groups. I feel that we ourselves should ensure
that
we do not burden Kas. If a tea stall comes up we should refrain from
holding a steaming cup in the rolling mist of Kas. The plateau
expects
least interventions from outsiders like us, it will sustain and
please
us as it has done over the years.


Thank you and with regards, Shrikant
>  Nature Vs Devolopment.JPG
> 38KViewDownload
>
>  Need to stop now!.JPG
> 31KViewDownload
>
>  Parking of approx 1 km line..JPG
> 43KViewDownload
>
>  People are coming with full of Buses.JPG
> 64KViewDownload
>
>  Photo Kadhanyachi Kewadhi Ti Haus !!.JPG
> 62KViewDownload
>
>  Smithia Crying !!.JPG
> 130KViewDownload
>
>  Traffic jam at KAAS..JPG
> 45KViewDownload
>
>  We have to Stop this !.JPG
> 140KViewDownload

Pankaj Kumar

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Oct 5, 2010, 1:23:02 AM10/5/10
to shrikant ingalhalikar, efloraofindia
I agree with Shrikant sir on one point. We Indians have this habit of
pointing on others but we never tend to correct ourselves.
Sorry to say that!!...but if every Indian tries to correct his or her
own deeds then India will surely emerge out as a better nation than
any other country in the world. There is a very bad phrase for Indians
in Germany. You put the Indian Crabs in a bucket and none will come
out.....WHY????.... because each one of them is pulling legs of
others!!!!

Regards
Pankaj

--

mani nair

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Oct 5, 2010, 1:29:31 AM10/5/10
to Pankaj Kumar, shrikant ingalhalikar, efloraofindia
Yes Pankaj ji,  you change yourself, the whole world will change.

Regards,

Mani.

Pankaj Oudhia

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Oct 5, 2010, 3:23:17 AM10/5/10
to efloraofindia
It is not Indian Crabs but habit of all crabs in general. This phrase is popularly used  for Cancerian i.e. Kark Rashi people in Astrology.  ;)

regards

Pankaj Oudhia

On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Pankaj Kumar <sahani...@gmail.com> wrote:

Pankaj Kumar

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Oct 5, 2010, 3:38:02 AM10/5/10
to Pankaj Oudhia, efloraofindia
No, I am talking about may be the german version of the phrase where
they specifically say INDIAN CRABS!!
Pankaj

Pankaj Oudhia

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Oct 5, 2010, 3:47:23 AM10/5/10
to efloraofindia
Having hundreds of German fans but never heard it. If they say Indian Crabs then one can correct it by giving this simple scientific explanation. :)

Leg pulling is Global Phenomenon even common in Plant Kingdom. Many terms it as Allelopathy. 

regards

Pankaj Oudhia

nabha meghani

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Oct 5, 2010, 6:22:40 AM10/5/10
to Pankaj Oudhia, efloraofindia
Hallo, Pankaj ji and Pankaj ji,
I too have never heard this phrase. But never mind.
After having lived in england and germany (apart from india) and knowing many more countries in europe and south america, I would say, it is not only indians have this bad habbit and Pankaj Kumar ji says (We Indians have this habit of

 pointing on others but we never tend to correct ourselves.
 Sorry to say that!!...but if every Indian tries to correct his or her
 own deeds then India will surely emerge out as a better nation than
 any other country in the world. ). It is a character of a common human being more or less all over the world.  But I don't want to divert the attention from the main issue.
 
We have discussed this issue wide and long, what they should do. There were good points in the discussion.
Are there other groups, other than NatureIndia, who are doing this good work. Will it be helpful to join hands with them rather that starting yet another group and spreading and probably wasting efforts over so many groups.
It is probably better, if the various groups communicate with each other and cooperate.
Now the monsoon is more or less over so the flowering at kaas. So ther is now time to plan the activities for the coming year.
Regards
Nalini
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----

Smita Raskar

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Oct 5, 2010, 10:51:51 AM10/5/10
to satyendra tiwari, gsuhas, indian...@googlegroups.com
As you already said the society is 'law obedient' in columbia... this is what is exactly 'lacking in India'
Law remains on board..i have seen person having fun riding bike right over flowers in Kas ..no sensitivity..nothing, 
by the time guard came running, considerable damage was already being done... who will stop such stupids??
On the top Govt is more interested in developing tourist spots with 5 star hotels
thats where we nature lovers are helpless :(

On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 5:41 AM, satyendra tiwari <kays...@gmail.com> wrote:



--
Smita raskar
308 Disha Residency,
Salaiwada,Sawantwadi
Phone (02363) 274153
Mob.9422379568

Dr. Arvind Kadus

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Oct 5, 2010, 12:45:30 PM10/5/10
to efloraofindia
Dear All I do not agree with few statements of Shrikant Ji
like ....'Kas
flora diversity and distribution has not changed a bit in the last 35
years. This is in spite of trampling, burning, grazing and other
local interventions over infinite years. Plants regenerating from
seeds are abundent and
plucking by a few over enthusiasts makes a little or no difference to
their re-appearance. Plants said to have some use are plucked the
most.'
Pants are abundent right now as per your statement but what about
next? ''Plucking by a few over enthusiasts makes a little or no
difference to
their re-appearance''. I strongly oppose this statement of yours. Dear
sir, if every single visitor is plucking out a single plant every time
what will happen? Its a common sense multiplication naturally stops
after some time, may take longer time but it happens always. May be
there is no change at Kas, as shrikant Ji said but if this continues,
the day will no longer to turn Kas in Plataeu like Pachgani. Shrikant
Ji as per your statement then Pachgani and Mahabaleshwar also seems to
be same as they are in last 35 years? isn't it?
Dear all these are my opinions and ofcourse everyone has a right to
express with his own veiws.
Thanx to support.
If Nature Survive We Survive !!

Until the last tree is cut;
Until the last river is dry;
Until the last fish is caught;
Until the last animal is killed;
Man willnot realise that he cannot eat money.

Thanx a lot.
Dr.Kadus Arvind,Pune.


On Oct 5, 7:51 pm, Smita Raskar <smita.ras...@gmail.com> wrote:
> As you already said the society is 'law obedient' in columbia... this is
> what is exactly 'lacking in India'
> Law remains on board..i have seen person having fun riding bike right over
> flowers in Kas ..no sensitivity..nothing,
> by the time guard came running, considerable damage was already being
> done... who will stop such stupids??
> On the top Govt is more interested in developing tourist spots with 5 star
> hotels
> thats where we nature lovers are helpless :(
>
> Mob.9422379568- Hide quoted text -

gsuhas

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Oct 5, 2010, 11:25:31 PM10/5/10
to efloraofindia
Dear Shrikant

Accepted, over last 35 years there is no much change in flora of Kas.
I know you are visiting the place for years. Even once we were
together and I had come to Kas with you in your car. That is about 5/6
years back.
But if you remember, that time we were only 4 on total Kas pathar...
you, me, Usha and Navendu.
The flora has survived for years because till recent years no such a
big influx of visitors was there. The crowd is increasing not in
geometric proportion, but in exponential proportion. Will the flora
survive such a huge influx of human activity? 37K people in two days.
I can not imagine. If same rate of rise of human activity sustains for
few more years, I fear the plant will vanish just because of pollution
and littering.

You say, each one of us should refrain from visiting on peak flowering
day. Then why should we visit. Every body will try to visit on
flowering days only. Yes, I assume you mean, everybody should refrain
from visiting on Saturday/ Sunday. But you, me, few more who care for
nature and more so who try to avoid the huge rush will visit in week
days. But every other person will try to visit on week ends/ holidays
only as far as possible. This fact we have to accept.
You only say that you refused to accompany as resource person. In
fact, it would be great if person like you go with the groups so that
you can educate them about not harming the plants, you may even ask
them to visit on week days. I am sure, if resource person like you is
available people will prefer to visit even on week day.
Thus, there has to be some regulation for visitors. The area need not
be banned for visiting. It should be open. But it should be controlled
with the grace approprate for its status of "World Heritage", as aper
other wild life sancturies.
On the other hand you say, Kas should not be burdened. The plateau
expects least intervention.from outsiders like us. The visit of 20K
people a day is not intervention? Or asking for some regulation is an
intervention?
You love nature. We love nature. You and we love Kas. We need to
regulate, discipline the visitors and save Kas.
Thanks
On Oct 5, 10:15 am, shrikant ingalhalikar <le...@rediffmail.com>
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