DV - 18SEP10 - 0116 :: ¿ Momordica species ?

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Dinesh Valke

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Sep 23, 2010, 1:32:33 PM9/23/10
to efloraofindia
Dear friends,
... this cucurbit member has remained without ID for very long ... photos attached show recent views.
ID please.



Date/Time
: September 18, 2010 at 1.16pm IST
Location Place : Vaghbil, Thane, near Vasai Creek
Altitude : 2 m  (above mean sea level)
GPS : 19°16'23.17"N, 72°59'16.96"E

Habitat : in vicinity of estuary
Type :

Plant
Habit
: herbaceous climber
Height : do not know its reach
Length : do not know

Leaves
Type
: simple, with serrated margin, alternately arranged
Shape : cordate base, angularly lobed, tip acute
Size : about 10 - 15 cm, as long as wide

Inflorescence
Type
: solitary, in axils
Size : --

Flowers
Size
: about 3 cm
Colour : bright yellow
Calyx : do not know
Bracts : do not know

Fruits
Type
: gourd, with very short soft spines
Shape : ovoid, rounded at both ends
Size : about 5 - 7 cm x 2.5 - 3 cm
Seeds : do not know


Other Info
Fragrance : do not know
Pollinator : do not know
Uses : do not know

 



Regards.
P1250366.jpg
P1250346.jpg
P1250354.jpg
P1250356.jpg
P1250358.jpg
P1250360.jpg
P1250363.jpg

Balkar Arya

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Sep 23, 2010, 1:46:53 PM9/23/10
to Dinesh Valke, efloraofindia
To me it looks like a variety of Cucumis sativus (Khira)

--
Regards

Dr Balkar Singh
Head, Deptt. of Botany and Biotechnology
Arya P G College, Panipat
Haryana-132103
09416262964

Gurcharan Singh

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Sep 23, 2010, 1:49:36 PM9/23/10
to Balkar Arya, Dinesh Valke, efloraofindia
Cucumis sativus, the cucumber


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

Dinesh Valke

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Sep 23, 2010, 2:05:10 PM9/23/10
to Gurcharan Singh, Balkar Arya, efloraofindia
Thank you very much, Balkar ji and Gurcharan ji, for the ID ... it was pending since long.
Regards.

Balkar Arya

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Sep 23, 2010, 2:08:14 PM9/23/10
to Dinesh Valke, Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia
Welcome Sir

Neil Soares

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Sep 23, 2010, 2:33:38 PM9/23/10
to Dinesh Valke, Balkar Arya, Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia
Hi Dinesh,
 This looks like the Wild Cucumber [Cucumis trigonis] locally called Karit or Davderi. Sending you a few of my photographs for comparison.
                        Regards,
                          Neil.

--- On Thu, 9/23/10, Balkar Arya <balka...@gmail.com> wrote:
Wild Cucumber,Cucumis trigonis, Karit,Davderi 1.jpg
Wild Cucumber,Cucumis trigonis,Davderi,Karit 2.jpg
Wild Cucumber,Cucumis trigonis, Karit,Davderi fruit 1.jpg
Cucumis trigonis, Wild cucumber,Davderi, Karit fruit 2.jpg

Balkar Arya

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Sep 23, 2010, 2:37:37 PM9/23/10
to Neil Soares, Dinesh Valke, Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia
I think you are right Neil Ji
it is Cucumis trigonis

Dinesh Valke

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Sep 23, 2010, 2:44:19 PM9/23/10
to Balkar Arya, Neil Soares, Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia
Oh yes indeed Neil ji.
Found leaves of Cucumis sativus different from what is posted, so was a bit hesitant whether to return my query.
... many thanks for resolving the ID.

Regards.

Gurcharan Singh

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Sep 23, 2010, 3:50:07 PM9/23/10
to Dinesh Valke, Balkar Arya, Neil Soares, efloraofindia
Still I don't think this to be C. trigonous,  now correctly known as C. melo subsp. agrestris which has fruits not longer than 4 cm and narrower than 2.5 cm tappered at both ends.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

Gurcharan Singh

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Sep 23, 2010, 3:51:21 PM9/23/10
to Dinesh Valke, Balkar Arya, Neil Soares, efloraofindia
The fruits in C. trigonus are smooth (not spiny) with dark green lines.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

Gurcharan Singh

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Sep 23, 2010, 4:26:34 PM9/23/10
to Dinesh Valke, Balkar Arya, Neil Soares, efloraofindia
This is C. sativus, where young fruits are with small prickles.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

Dinesh Valke

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Sep 23, 2010, 10:52:32 PM9/23/10
to Gurcharan Singh, Balkar Arya, Neil Soares, efloraofindia
Gurcharan ji,

The plant that is posted for ID query is different from another plant in my collection at http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Cucumis%20melo%20ssp.%20agrestis&w=91314344%40N00 (believing to be Cucumis melo ssp. agrestis).

Cucumis melo ssp. agrestis is commonly known as: senat seed, small gourd, wild musk melon • Gujarati: કચરી kachari • Hindi:  कचरी kachari, कचरिया kachariya • Konkani: चिबडिण chibdin • Marathi: शिंडे shinde • Nepalese: gurmi • Rajasthani: कचरी kachari


My thoughts:
The flower of Cucumis melo ssp. agrestis bears a distinct pale centre ... not found in the plant that is posted in this thread.
The size of Cucumis melo ssp. agrestis flower is smaller than that of plant posted in this thread (by just about 5 - 6 mm).
The leaf of Cucumis melo ssp. agrestis looks similar in shape to that of Cucumis sativus ... different from the plant that is posted.

Neil Soares

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Sep 23, 2010, 11:33:02 PM9/23/10
to Gurcharan Singh, Dinesh Valke, Balkar Arya, efloraofindia
Hi Dinesh,
  There is a slight problem here.  Dr.Almeida's "Flora of Maharashtra" Vol 2 lists Cucumis melo Linn. subsp. agrestis as the new name / syn. of Cucumis trigonis.  Anyway, my plants were identified as C.trigonis by Dr.Almeida.
                                Regards,
                                  Neil.

--- On Fri, 9/24/10, Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:48140] DV - 18SEP10 - 0116 :: ¿ Momordica species ?

Gurcharan Singh

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Sep 23, 2010, 11:53:52 PM9/23/10
to Dinesh Valke, Balkar Arya, Neil Soares, efloraofindia
Larger flowers, absence of light centre, tubercled larger fruits all point to C. sativus.

I have photographed a lot of melons (C. melo) in California. Perhaps I will post them next week. There is great diversity in fruits but I have never known C. melo with tubercled fruits, so common in C. sativus.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

Dinesh Valke

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Sep 24, 2010, 12:57:10 AM9/24/10
to Gurcharan Singh, Balkar Arya, Neil Soares, efloraofindia
Thank you very much Gurcharan ji, for resolving the ID.
This cucurbitaceae family is quite close-knit ... always confuses me !!!
Will consider this plant to be Cucumis sativus.

Vijayasankar

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Sep 25, 2010, 12:10:45 AM9/25/10
to Dinesh Valke, Gurcharan Singh, Balkar Arya, Neil Soares, efloraofindia
To me Neil ji's plants look like Cucumis prophetarum. I may be wrong but.

Regards

Vijayasankar

Parjanya guru

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Sep 25, 2010, 1:01:16 AM9/25/10
to Vijayasankar, Dinesh Valke, Gurcharan Singh, Balkar Arya, Neil Soares, efloraofindia

 I too agree with Vijayasankar jee for Cucumis prophetarum

  Parjanya Guru
 +919738723392

Gurcharan Singh

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Sep 25, 2010, 2:16:34 AM9/25/10
to Parjanya guru, Vijayasankar, Dinesh Valke, Balkar Arya, Neil Soares, efloraofindia
Not C. prophetarum for me. That species has strongly echinate fruits and young fruits are with white stripes (like C. trigonis), leaves are variously lobed with obtuse or subacute lobes.





-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

Yazdy Palia

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Sep 25, 2010, 3:59:04 AM9/25/10
to Vijayasankar, Dinesh Valke, Gurcharan Singh, Balkar Arya, Neil Soares, efloraofindia
I do not agree, please check the link given below. The leaves are different.
http://www.google.co.in/search?q=Cucumis+prophetarum&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGGL_en___IN364
Regards
Yazdy.

Neil Soares

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Sep 25, 2010, 8:58:53 AM9/25/10
to Vijayasankar, Yazdy Palia, Dinesh Valke, Gurcharan Singh, Balkar Arya, efloraofindia
Hi,
 Cucumis prophetarum is a widely cultivated plant. Mine are wild.
                     Regards,
                       Neil Soares.

--- On Sat, 9/25/10, Yazdy Palia <yazdy...@gmail.com> wrote:

Gurcharan Singh

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Sep 25, 2010, 11:50:49 AM9/25/10
to Neil Soares, Vijayasankar, Yazdy Palia, Dinesh Valke, Balkar Arya, efloraofindia
Yazdy ji
I couldn't catch your opinion. You don't agree with........................my view (it is not C. prophetarum) or identification C. prophetarum given by Vijayasankar ji and supported by Parjanya ji.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

Yazdy Palia

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Sep 25, 2010, 11:54:20 PM9/25/10
to Gurcharan Singh, Parjanya guru, Vijayasankar, Dinesh Valke, Balkar Arya, Neil Soares, efloraofindia
Dear Dr. Gurcharan Singh Ji,
My apologies, I had not stated in my mail who I did not agree with. It
was in response to Vijayasankar ji and Parjanya Guru ji that I did not
agree with. In fact you and I have stated the same.
Regards
Yazdy.

Dinesh Valke

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Sep 30, 2010, 3:29:47 AM9/30/10
to Yazdy Palia, Gurcharan Singh, Parjanya guru, Vijayasankar, Balkar Arya, Neil Soares, efloraofindia
Cucumis sativus is commonly known as: cucumber • Assamese: তিয়ঁহ tiyoh, তিঁহু tihu • Bengali: শশা sasa • Gujarati: કાકડી kakadi • Hindi: खीरा khira • Kannada: ಸೌತೆಕಾಯಿ sautekayi • Kashmiri: लौरू loru • Konkani: तौशे taushe • Lushai: fang-hma • Malayalam: വെള്ളരി vellari • Manipuri: থবী thabi • Marathi: काकडी kakadi, कांकडी kankadi, खिरा khira, तवशी tavashi • Nepalese: काँक्रो kankro, खिरो khiro • Oriya: kakudi • Persian: خيار khiyar • Prakrit: खीरओ khira-o • Punjabi: ਖੀਰਾ khira • Sanskrit: अल्पणः alpanah, अल्पणकः alpanakah, चर्भटी charbati, ईर्वारुः irvaaruh, क्षीरकः kshirakah, त्रपुलम् trapulam, त्रपुसम् trapusam • Sindhi: وَنگيِ vangii • Tamil: வெள்ளரி vellari • Telugu: దోస dosa, కీర kira • Urdu: کهيرا khira



Regards.

Yazdy Palia

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Sep 30, 2010, 5:21:56 AM9/30/10
to Neil Soares, Dinesh Valke, Balkar Arya, Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia
Dear Mr. Neil,
It can not be Cumis Trigonis. The pictures of C trigonis is shown in the below link. I have seen this climber and fruits in plenty. In wayanad you find them around all cattle sheds because the cows enjoy the fruit and the seeds in the cow dung sprout in large numbers. I have always wondered the name of this.
http://www.google.co.in/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=aZa&rlz=1R1GGGL_en___IN364&&sa=X&ei=XlSkTLG1BcKlcJq7zKoI&ved=0CBQQBSgA&q=Cucumis+trigonus
Regards
Yazdy.

JM Garg

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Jan 23, 2021, 3:25:25 AMJan 23
to dinesh...@gmail.com, indian...@googlegroups.com
  I think this will be Cucumis sativus var. hardwickii as per images and details herein.  
P1250366.jpg
P1250346.jpg
P1250354.jpg
P1250356.jpg
P1250358.jpg
P1250360.jpg
P1250363.jpg

Gurcharan Singh

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Jan 23, 2021, 11:32:45 PMJan 23
to efloraofindia
Yes Garg ji

Dinesh Valke

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Jan 25, 2021, 6:11:21 AMJan 25
to JM Garg, indian...@googlegroups.com
Thanks very much Garg ji for the ID.
I have updated my notes in flickr accordingly.
Regards.
Dinesh
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