Flowers from Temple Gardens - Jasmine 3 - jasminum sambac/mogra?
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mal...@gmail.com
Jul 21, 2008, 6:16:46 AM7/21/08
to indiantreepix
Hi,
Here is the third Jasmine in the series. This is by all accounts, and most probably, jasminum sambac. There are lots of confusing photos on the net, but the reliable ones seem to indicate its sambac. Its also known as Arabic jasmine. Can anyone please confirm or otherwise?
Its a small shrub abt 1-2 feet in height, with light green young leaves which become darker as they age. Some sources on the net say its a hardy vine, but I have never seen 'mogra' as a vine.
This mostly comes in two varieties - single row of petals and double row of petals. The single one is called 'raibel' and the double is called 'mogra' in hindi. Its called malli or gund-malli(literally translated - fat jasmine, as the buds are small and rounded) in Tamil. The photos show 'mogra'. I do not have the photo of the single variety shrub. If anyone can post that, it would be great.
As as interesting aside, I am also posting the photo of something known as 'phool bangla', which is made with flowers in almost all the temples of Vrindaban during the summers. The photo shows the process of how it is made. Multiple frames like the one shown in photo are made, and tied together to create a house like structure. Like other temple towns, Vrindaban too is a major center of flower business. The bangla is most of the times made from 'raibel' - the single variety of sambac.
Quoting from zipcodezoo's page on the plant:
http://zzforkids.com/Plants/J/Jasminum_sambac/
"Shrub from India, with sweet-scented white flowers in single (pikake lahilahi), or double forms (pikake pupupu)."
I have no clue what those bracketed words mean - anyone knows which language it is?
thanks,
malyada
Here is the third Jasmine in the series. This is by all accounts, and most probably, jasminum sambac. There are lots of confusing photos on the net, but the reliable ones seem to indicate its sambac. Its also known as Arabic jasmine. Can anyone please confirm or otherwise?
Its a small shrub abt 1-2 feet in height, with light green young leaves which become darker as they age. Some sources on the net say its a hardy vine, but I have never seen 'mogra' as a vine.
This mostly comes in two varieties - single row of petals and double row of petals. The single one is called 'raibel' and the double is called 'mogra' in hindi. Its called malli or gund-malli(literally translated - fat jasmine, as the buds are small and rounded) in Tamil. The photos show 'mogra'. I do not have the photo of the single variety shrub. If anyone can post that, it would be great.
As as interesting aside, I am also posting the photo of something known as 'phool bangla', which is made with flowers in almost all the temples of Vrindaban during the summers. The photo shows the process of how it is made. Multiple frames like the one shown in photo are made, and tied together to create a house like structure. Like other temple towns, Vrindaban too is a major center of flower business. The bangla is most of the times made from 'raibel' - the single variety of sambac.
Quoting from zipcodezoo's page on the plant:
http://zzforkids.com/Plants/J/Jasminum_sambac/
"Shrub from India, with sweet-scented white flowers in single (pikake lahilahi), or double forms (pikake pupupu)."
I have no clue what those bracketed words mean - anyone knows which language it is?
thanks,
malyada
J.M. Garg
Jul 21, 2008, 7:37:07 AM7/21/08
to mal...@gmail.com, indiantreepix
Hi, Malyada ji,
Just try to match the description as per the details from Wikipedia link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasminum_sambac , extracts of which are given below:
Jasminum sambac (syn. Nyctanthes sambac) is a species of jasmine native to southern Asia, in India, Philippines, Myanmar and Sri Lanka. Common names include Arabian Jasmine, Mogra (Hindi and Marathi), Mallikā (Sanskrit), Kampupot, Melati (Malay and Indonesian Language), Sampaguita (Filipino), Mallepuvvu (Telugu), Mallipu (Tamil), Mallige (Kannada) and Kaliyan (Urdu).
It is an evergreen vine or shrub reaching up to 1-3 m tall. The leaves are opposite or in whorls of three, simple (not pinnate, like most other jasmines), ovate, 4-12.5 cm long and 2-7.5 cm broad. The flowers are produced in clusters of 3-12 together, strongly scented, with a white corolla 2-3 cm diameter with 5-9 lobes. The flowers open at night, and close in the morning. The fruit is a purple-black berry 1 cm in diameter.
It is widely grown throughout the tropics as an ornamental plant for its strongly scented flowers. Numerous cultivars have been selected, including some with fully-double flowers such as the cultivar 'Grand Duke of Tuscany'.
For my Birds, Butterflies, Trees, Landscape pictures etc., visit http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/J.M.Garg
mal...@gmail.com
Jul 21, 2008, 11:38:37 AM7/21/08
to J.M. Garg, indiantreepix
Thank you Garg Ji. Yes, I guess I can be fairly certain that 'mogra' is indeed jasminum sambac. And today I happened to see a shrub which must have been 2 metres or so. I was not sure about the height as I have seen the cultivated ones which are generally smaller, and then remembered they are pruned regularly.
Thanks once again for writing back.
malyada..
Thanks once again for writing back.
malyada..
2008/7/21 J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>:
For learning about our trees & plants, please visit/ join Google e-group (Indiantreepix) http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix?hl=en
Anand Kumar Bhatt
Jul 21, 2008, 4:01:06 PM7/21/08
to mal...@gmail.com, J.M. Garg, indiantreepix
Malyada! I find it much easier to remeber the jasmines by their Hindi
names: Chameli (creeper, with relatively large single flowers. Highly
fragrant. Juhi (small shrub or creeper with smallish flowers
(fragrant). Mogra (shrub, with highly scented flowerers). This neeeds
pruning in winter. Otherwise flowering would be poor. This is probably
also known as Bela. The last in the series is Sonjuhi (bush, can be
trained as a creeper, no fragrance). I am not aware of any other
jasmine. You have also mentioned 3 varieties. I stand corrected.
Best wishes,
akbhatt
names: Chameli (creeper, with relatively large single flowers. Highly
fragrant. Juhi (small shrub or creeper with smallish flowers
(fragrant). Mogra (shrub, with highly scented flowerers). This neeeds
pruning in winter. Otherwise flowering would be poor. This is probably
also known as Bela. The last in the series is Sonjuhi (bush, can be
trained as a creeper, no fragrance). I am not aware of any other
jasmine. You have also mentioned 3 varieties. I stand corrected.
Best wishes,
akbhatt
2008/7/21 <mal...@gmail.com>:
malyada
Jul 21, 2008, 9:36:12 PM7/21/08
to indiantreepix
Hi Anand,
Yes, its true. The local names are a lot easier to remember. But did
you know, there are about 690 species of the genus jasminum? I didnt:)
I myself have seen about 10 odd of them. I am trying to identify the
scientific names of all of them, just for time pass, no specific
reason. Hence the stress on getting the correct botanical name.
I had posted another thread for what is also known as 'chameli' but is
not jasminum gradiflorum. I got one suggestion from Garg Ji on it, but
that doesnt seem to be correct. Can someone please take a look?
http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix/browse_thread/thread/9979a8c82c32f744/fb8b27a73cdad601?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=jasmine+2#fb8b27a73cdad601
With respect to son juhi, is it yellow coloured?
thanks,
malyada
On Jul 22, 1:01 am, "Anand Kumar Bhatt" <anandkbh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Malyada! I find it much easier to remeber the jasmines by their Hindi
> names: Chameli (creeper, with relatively large single flowers. Highly
> fragrant. Juhi (small shrub or creeper with smallish flowers
> (fragrant). Mogra (shrub, with highly scented flowerers). This neeeds
> pruning in winter. Otherwise flowering would be poor. This is probably
> also known as Bela. The last in the series is Sonjuhi (bush, can be
> trained as a creeper, no fragrance). I am not aware of any other
> jasmine. You have also mentioned 3 varieties. I stand corrected.
> Best wishes,
> akbhatt
>
> 2008/7/21 <maly...@gmail.com>:
> >>> (Indiantreepix)http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix?hl=en
Yes, its true. The local names are a lot easier to remember. But did
you know, there are about 690 species of the genus jasminum? I didnt:)
I myself have seen about 10 odd of them. I am trying to identify the
scientific names of all of them, just for time pass, no specific
reason. Hence the stress on getting the correct botanical name.
I had posted another thread for what is also known as 'chameli' but is
not jasminum gradiflorum. I got one suggestion from Garg Ji on it, but
that doesnt seem to be correct. Can someone please take a look?
http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix/browse_thread/thread/9979a8c82c32f744/fb8b27a73cdad601?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=jasmine+2#fb8b27a73cdad601
With respect to son juhi, is it yellow coloured?
thanks,
malyada
On Jul 22, 1:01 am, "Anand Kumar Bhatt" <anandkbh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Malyada! I find it much easier to remeber the jasmines by their Hindi
> names: Chameli (creeper, with relatively large single flowers. Highly
> fragrant. Juhi (small shrub or creeper with smallish flowers
> (fragrant). Mogra (shrub, with highly scented flowerers). This neeeds
> pruning in winter. Otherwise flowering would be poor. This is probably
> also known as Bela. The last in the series is Sonjuhi (bush, can be
> trained as a creeper, no fragrance). I am not aware of any other
> jasmine. You have also mentioned 3 varieties. I stand corrected.
> Best wishes,
> akbhatt
>
>
> > Thank you Garg Ji. Yes, I guess I can be fairly certain that 'mogra' is
> > indeed jasminum sambac. And today I happened to see a shrub which must have
> > been 2 metres or so. I was not sure about the height as I have seen the
> > cultivated ones which are generally smaller, and then remembered they are
> > pruned regularly.
>
> > Thanks once again for writing back.
> > malyada..
>
> > 2008/7/21 J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com>:
> > Thank you Garg Ji. Yes, I guess I can be fairly certain that 'mogra' is
> > indeed jasminum sambac. And today I happened to see a shrub which must have
> > been 2 metres or so. I was not sure about the height as I have seen the
> > cultivated ones which are generally smaller, and then remembered they are
> > pruned regularly.
>
> > Thanks once again for writing back.
> > malyada..
>
>
> >> Hi, Malyada ji,
> >> Just try to match the description as per the details from Wikipedia
> >> link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasminum_sambac, extracts of which are
> >> Hi, Malyada ji,
> >> Just try to match the description as per the details from Wikipedia
> >> given below:
>
> >> Jasminum sambac (syn. Nyctanthes sambac) is a species of jasmine native to
> >> southern Asia, in India, Philippines, Myanmar and Sri Lanka. Common names
> >> include Arabian Jasmine, Mogra (Hindi and Marathi), Mallikā (Sanskrit),
> >> Kampupot, Melati (Malay and Indonesian Language), Sampaguita (Filipino),
> >> Mallepuvvu (Telugu), Mallipu (Tamil), Mallige (Kannada) and Kaliyan (Urdu).
>
> >> It is an evergreen vine or shrub reaching up to 1-3 m tall. The leaves are
> >> opposite or in whorls of three, simple (not pinnate, like most other
> >> jasmines), ovate, 4-12.5 cm long and 2-7.5 cm broad. The flowers are
> >> produced in clusters of 3-12 together, strongly scented, with a white
> >> corolla 2-3 cm diameter with 5-9 lobes. The flowers open at night, and close
> >> in the morning. The fruit is a purple-black berry 1 cm in diameter.
>
> >> It is widely grown throughout the tropics as an ornamental plant for its
> >> strongly scented flowers. Numerous cultivars have been selected, including
> >> some with fully-double flowers such as the cultivar 'Grand Duke of Tuscany'.
>
>
> >> Jasminum sambac (syn. Nyctanthes sambac) is a species of jasmine native to
> >> southern Asia, in India, Philippines, Myanmar and Sri Lanka. Common names
> >> include Arabian Jasmine, Mogra (Hindi and Marathi), Mallikā (Sanskrit),
> >> Kampupot, Melati (Malay and Indonesian Language), Sampaguita (Filipino),
> >> Mallepuvvu (Telugu), Mallipu (Tamil), Mallige (Kannada) and Kaliyan (Urdu).
>
> >> It is an evergreen vine or shrub reaching up to 1-3 m tall. The leaves are
> >> opposite or in whorls of three, simple (not pinnate, like most other
> >> jasmines), ovate, 4-12.5 cm long and 2-7.5 cm broad. The flowers are
> >> produced in clusters of 3-12 together, strongly scented, with a white
> >> corolla 2-3 cm diameter with 5-9 lobes. The flowers open at night, and close
> >> in the morning. The fruit is a purple-black berry 1 cm in diameter.
>
> >> It is widely grown throughout the tropics as an ornamental plant for its
> >> strongly scented flowers. Numerous cultivars have been selected, including
> >> some with fully-double flowers such as the cultivar 'Grand Duke of Tuscany'.
>
Anand Kumar Bhatt
Jul 22, 2008, 2:06:12 PM7/22/08
to malyada, indiantreepix
Anand Kumar Bhatt
Jul 22, 2008, 2:42:50 PM7/22/08
to kaysat tiwari, indiantreepix, malyada
Satyen! You are right. Bela is a bush. and it has to be pruned every
winter so that it flowers during summer months. When I came here I
bought about 2 dozen bela plants. One of them is developing into a
creeper, and I have left it as it is. If you see TK Bose's book, in
the creeper section he has mentioned a number of varieties which could
be a creeper or a bush. The same is true for woody creepers like
bougainvillea. Its basic nature is of creeper, but it can very easily
be trained as a bush. In another place, I trained Son Juhi as a
creeper but a few years later I went to that house and found that it
has now been converted into a bush. I did not see it flowering. so I
cannot say whether creeper flowers better or shrub. Bose has made a
distinction between mogra and motia. I dont think that Jasminum sambac
'Japanese rai' which is mogra can be creeper. It is probably Jasminum
sambac 'Motia' which turns into creeper sometimes. It is all a guess
work, as for Japanese Rai Bose has not mentioned Mogra. He has said
that Japanese Rai is more compact,as compared to Motia where he has
said that flowers are smaller and double. Bose's book is very
exhaustive, but he has failed to give Hindi or Bangla equivalent by
design. Hindi names are there by chance only.
I certainly don't mind being corrected in my guesswork.
Best wishes,
akbhatt
P.S. My wife laughs at me for this activity of mine.
ak
winter so that it flowers during summer months. When I came here I
bought about 2 dozen bela plants. One of them is developing into a
creeper, and I have left it as it is. If you see TK Bose's book, in
the creeper section he has mentioned a number of varieties which could
be a creeper or a bush. The same is true for woody creepers like
bougainvillea. Its basic nature is of creeper, but it can very easily
be trained as a bush. In another place, I trained Son Juhi as a
creeper but a few years later I went to that house and found that it
has now been converted into a bush. I did not see it flowering. so I
cannot say whether creeper flowers better or shrub. Bose has made a
distinction between mogra and motia. I dont think that Jasminum sambac
'Japanese rai' which is mogra can be creeper. It is probably Jasminum
sambac 'Motia' which turns into creeper sometimes. It is all a guess
work, as for Japanese Rai Bose has not mentioned Mogra. He has said
that Japanese Rai is more compact,as compared to Motia where he has
said that flowers are smaller and double. Bose's book is very
exhaustive, but he has failed to give Hindi or Bangla equivalent by
design. Hindi names are there by chance only.
I certainly don't mind being corrected in my guesswork.
Best wishes,
akbhatt
P.S. My wife laughs at me for this activity of mine.
ak
2008/7/22 kaysat tiwari <kays...@gmail.com>:
> Dear Mr Bhatt, You are right Hindi names are easier to remember.
> I have a question here. As you said about Bela a small bush. In my Garden we
> have Bela all over but it is a creeper At one place it climbed on Palash
> tree so it is more than 20ft tall creeper now.
> Is this also the same variety of Bela or different. May I request all
> experts on the group to solve this puzzle please.
> Satyendra
>
> 2008/7/22 Anand Kumar Bhatt <anand...@gmail.com>:
> --
> Satyendra K.Tiwari.
> Wildlife Photographer, Naturalist, Tour Leader
> H.NO 139, P.O.Tala, Distt Umariya.
> M.P. India 484-661
> 00-91-7627-265309 or 09425331209
Anand Kumar Bhatt
Jul 24, 2008, 5:15:30 PM7/24/08
to kaysat tiwari, indiantreepix, malyada
mALYADA! YOU ARE A BAD INFLUENCE. yOU HAVE GOT ME ADDICTED TO JASMINE.
i AM TRYING TO GO THE OTHER WAY ABOUT. THAT IS, TRYING TO FIND OUT OR
GUESS THE hINDI NAME FOR ALL THE VARIETIES OF JASMINE MENTIONED IN
bOSE'S BOOK. Sorry for the mixup between upper and lower cases.
Shrubs;
1.Jasminum humile.......Sonjuhi
2. J. pubescens.....Kund
3. J. pubescens 'rubscens........Kund
4. J. sambac 'Japanese Rai'......Mogra
5. j. sambac 'Motia'...........Motia
i AM TRYING TO GO THE OTHER WAY ABOUT. THAT IS, TRYING TO FIND OUT OR
GUESS THE hINDI NAME FOR ALL THE VARIETIES OF JASMINE MENTIONED IN
bOSE'S BOOK. Sorry for the mixup between upper and lower cases.
Shrubs;
1.Jasminum humile.......Sonjuhi
2. J. pubescens.....Kund
3. J. pubescens 'rubscens........Kund
4. J. sambac 'Japanese Rai'......Mogra
5. j. sambac 'Motia'...........Motia
Climbers
6.J. augustifolum......?
7. J. auriculatum..........Juhi
8. J. flexile.....Nityamalli?
9. J. grandiflorum (Spanish Jasmine)......Chameli
10. J. nitidum.......?
11. J. officinale...........(Malti?)
12. J. sessiliflorum.......?
Any correction or addition to the list welcome.
Naturally I was wrong in assumin that there are only 4 types of jasmine.
Best wishes,
akbhatt
2008/7/23 Anand Kumar Bhatt <anand...@gmail.com>:
Anand Kumar Bhatt
Jul 24, 2008, 5:25:34 PM7/24/08
to kaysat tiwari, indiantreepix, malyada
to add further I am not sure of the distinction between mogra and
motia. Also whether bela is synonymous with mogra or motia or it is
encompassing more varieties?
akbhatt
motia. Also whether bela is synonymous with mogra or motia or it is
encompassing more varieties?
akbhatt
2008/7/25 Anand Kumar Bhatt <anand...@gmail.com>:
mal...@gmail.com
Jul 24, 2008, 11:31:01 PM7/24/08
to Anand Kumar Bhatt, kaysat tiwari, indiantreepix
Hi Anand,
Yes, I guess this is a good way to go about it. Thanks for all the research.
I am bad at replying, hope to become faster in the near future.
Here are my two cents:
Shrubs;
1. Jasminum humile.......Sonjuhi - (MG- I have seen this as a creeper as well. Photo due when it flowers. Non-smelling as far as I have seen it)
2. J. pubescens.....Kund (MG - Smells very faintly)
3. J. pubescens 'rubscens'........Kund
4. J. sambac 'Japanese Rai'......Mogra (MG-Smells intensely. This is the flower most commonly worn by women down south)
5. j. sambac 'Motia'...........Motia (MG -the difference is mogra is double petalled while motia is single. In vrindaban, motia is also known as raibel. I would confirm it this time. Also I guess bela is not from the jasmine family, I will put a new post on it.)
Climbers
6.J. augustifolum......?
7. J. auriculatum..........Juhi ( MG - I am mostly certain)
8. J. flexile.....Nityamalli? (MG - Not sure. I am yet to come across a definite reference. There is a separate thread on it and Garg Ji has done a lot of research)
Yes, I guess this is a good way to go about it. Thanks for all the research.
I am bad at replying, hope to become faster in the near future.
Here are my two cents:
Shrubs;
1. Jasminum humile.......Sonjuhi - (MG- I have seen this as a creeper as well. Photo due when it flowers. Non-smelling as far as I have seen it)
2. J. pubescens.....Kund (MG - Smells very faintly)
3. J. pubescens 'rubscens'........Kund
4. J. sambac 'Japanese Rai'......Mogra (MG-Smells intensely. This is the flower most commonly worn by women down south)
5. j. sambac 'Motia'...........Motia (MG -the difference is mogra is double petalled while motia is single. In vrindaban, motia is also known as raibel. I would confirm it this time. Also I guess bela is not from the jasmine family, I will put a new post on it.)
Climbers
6.J. augustifolum......?
7. J. auriculatum..........Juhi ( MG - I am mostly certain)
8. J. flexile.....Nityamalli? (MG - Not sure. I am yet to come across a definite reference. There is a separate thread on it and Garg Ji has done a lot of research)
9. J. grandiflorum (Spanish Jasmine)......Chameli
10. J. nitidum.......?
11. J. officinale...........(Malti?) (MG - This is not malti. I was surprised to know that Malti was from Apocynacae - the oleander family. I somehow always instinctively grouped it in the jasmine family. But the sap which comes when you break a flower or the bud is distinctive of the oleander family. Malti is - Here is the link on Malti.
http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix/browse_thread/thread/1974fd2e5ed35bf8/94df3b6f311257be?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=malti#94df3b6f311257be
12. J. sessiliflorum.......?
Garg Ji, any more additions/corrections? My fascination with jasmine mainly stems from its fragrance and its beauty as a vine/creeper. Somehow, jasmine though found all over the world always symbolises home for me. Though I didnt start thinking on these lines, but now I am very much interested in correctly knowing all the varieties of fragrant flowers I have seen in India. My husband too is quite amused with my activity:)
thanks,
malyada
http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix/browse_thread/thread/1974fd2e5ed35bf8/94df3b6f311257be?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=malti#94df3b6f311257be
12. J. sessiliflorum.......?
Garg Ji, any more additions/corrections? My fascination with jasmine mainly stems from its fragrance and its beauty as a vine/creeper. Somehow, jasmine though found all over the world always symbolises home for me. Though I didnt start thinking on these lines, but now I am very much interested in correctly knowing all the varieties of fragrant flowers I have seen in India. My husband too is quite amused with my activity:)
thanks,
malyada
Anand Kumar Bhatt
Jul 25, 2008, 2:25:04 AM7/25/08
to kaysat tiwari, J.M. Garg, Neil Soares, indiantreepix
Satyen, it would be difficult to say anything without a few
photographs. Attaach a few photographs of flowers, buds and leaves and
if possible a total view of the plant.
Similarly, for identification purpposes of other varieties photographs
will serve the purpose. Which better organisation you will find as
compared to indiantreepix with S/shri garg, Swamy and neil to advise?
And the digital cameras have made photography and uploading so easy!
Best wishes,
akbhatt
photographs. Attaach a few photographs of flowers, buds and leaves and
if possible a total view of the plant.
Similarly, for identification purpposes of other varieties photographs
will serve the purpose. Which better organisation you will find as
compared to indiantreepix with S/shri garg, Swamy and neil to advise?
And the digital cameras have made photography and uploading so easy!
Best wishes,
akbhatt
2008/7/25 kaysat tiwari <kays...@gmail.com>:
> Dear Bhatt ji,
> Many thanks for putting all the available hindi names at one place.
> You mentioned "It is all a guess work, as for Japanese Rai Bose has not
> mentioned Mogra. He has said that Japanese Rai is more compact,as compared
> to Motia where he has
> said that flowers are smaller and double." Mogra Flowers in my garden are
> single. They are not as big and more petally as I have seen at other places.
> So can that make a difference in species??
> What I was thinking seriously was to find out a place where we can send some
> specimen for identification? I am sure Shri Swamy ji may lead us in this.
> If we have to send some organisation I am happy to pay.
> Thanks for your efforts.
> Satyendra
>
> 2008/7/25 Anand Kumar Bhatt <anand...@gmail.com>:
>>
Anand Kumar Bhatt
Jul 25, 2008, 2:54:27 AM7/25/08
to mal...@gmail.com, kaysat tiwari, indiantreepix
About J.sambac 'Motia' Bose's photograph shows double flower, the
text says medium sized and double. As Bose has used the word Motia it
would be difficult to say anything otherwise without some more
corroboration.
Regards,
akbhatt
text says medium sized and double. As Bose has used the word Motia it
would be difficult to say anything otherwise without some more
corroboration.
Regards,
akbhatt
2008/7/25 <mal...@gmail.com>:
J.M. Garg
Jul 31, 2008, 11:11:55 AM7/31/08
to Anand Kumar Bhatt, mal...@gmail.com, kaysat tiwari, indiantreepix
I think discussions on common names will not lead us anywhere. Also finding the exact scientific name for us will also be difficult as we have around 40 species of Jasmine found wild in India leave alone the numerous varieties for each species. Finding the exact scientific name will be really difficult in such a combination.
We should hopefully close this discussion now.
--
With regards,
J.M.Garg
"We often ignore the beauty around us"
With regards,
J.M.Garg
"We often ignore the beauty around us"
mal...@gmail.com
Jul 31, 2008, 11:27:00 PM7/31/08
to J.M. Garg, Anand Kumar Bhatt, kaysat tiwari, indiantreepix
Hello Garg Ji,
I agree with your opinion that its difficult to find all the species and their varieties, but I dont think we should stop the effort of trying to find it out. I at least want people who read these discussions later to know that we have not been able to confirm some of the names. It just might trigger further investigations and discoveries.
As I had written earlier, I am tired of information on the net which claims conclusively that its a particular species, and the information turning out to be wrong later. Its the biggest risk of the information which is found on the net. Discussions and questions are the corner stone of the internet information age, and I believe we should continue to debate as long as there is interest in the thread from people.
Do let me know if you still want this thread to be closed, and I will comply:)
thanks,
malyada
I agree with your opinion that its difficult to find all the species and their varieties, but I dont think we should stop the effort of trying to find it out. I at least want people who read these discussions later to know that we have not been able to confirm some of the names. It just might trigger further investigations and discoveries.
As I had written earlier, I am tired of information on the net which claims conclusively that its a particular species, and the information turning out to be wrong later. Its the biggest risk of the information which is found on the net. Discussions and questions are the corner stone of the internet information age, and I believe we should continue to debate as long as there is interest in the thread from people.
Do let me know if you still want this thread to be closed, and I will comply:)
thanks,
malyada
2008/7/31 J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
J.M. Garg
Aug 1, 2008, 12:41:46 AM8/1/08
to mal...@gmail.com, Anand Kumar Bhatt, kaysat tiwari, indiantreepix
Hi, Malyada ji,
The series you started is wonderful & keep it upl!! We are waiting more threads from you on different species.
Information on net is confusing because of so many similar species of Jasmine & their numerous varieties. May be one day we have a good authoritative book or website dedicated only on Jasmines & its varieties with good pictures to remove all these confusions (or is there already one on the subject- may from BSI). I hope the day is not far off.
However, it is upto the members to continue discussions as long as they find interest & it leads to some definite conclusions.
2008/7/31 J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
With regards,
J.M.Garg
"We often ignore the beauty around us"
For learning about our trees & plants, please visit/ join Google e-group (Indiantreepix) http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix?hl=en
For my Birds, Butterflies, Trees, Landscape pictures etc., visit http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/J.M.Garg
Tabish
Aug 1, 2008, 4:38:31 AM8/1/08
to indiantreepix
Some comments on Jasminum sambac
Jasminum sambac has many cultivars, which give them their various
Indian names like Motiya, Madan Mogra, But Mogra, Bela etc. Cultivar
official names are like
Jasminum sambac 'Belle of India'
Jasminum sambac 'Grand Duke Of Tuscany'
Jasminum sambac 'Maid of Orleans'
and so on. Jasminum sambac can generally be easily identified by its
leaves.
- Tabish
On Aug 1, 9:41 am, "J.M. Garg" <jmga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, Malyada ji,
> The series you started is wonderful & keep it upl!! We are waiting more
> threads from you on different species.
> Information on net is confusing because of so many similar species of
> Jasmine & their numerous varieties. May be one day we have a good
> authoritative book or website dedicated only on Jasmines & its varieties
> with good pictures to remove all these confusions (or is there already one
> on the subject- may from BSI). I hope the day is not far off.
> However, it is upto the members to continue discussions as long as they find
> interest & it leads to some definite conclusions.
>
> >>>http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix/browse_thread/thread/1...
> >>> >> > 2008/7/23 Anand Kumar Bhatt <anandkbh...@gmail.com>:
> >>> >> >> 2008/7/22 kaysat tiwari <kaysat...@gmail.com>:
>
> ...
>
> read more »
Jasminum sambac has many cultivars, which give them their various
Indian names like Motiya, Madan Mogra, But Mogra, Bela etc. Cultivar
official names are like
Jasminum sambac 'Belle of India'
Jasminum sambac 'Grand Duke Of Tuscany'
Jasminum sambac 'Maid of Orleans'
and so on. Jasminum sambac can generally be easily identified by its
leaves.
- Tabish
On Aug 1, 9:41 am, "J.M. Garg" <jmga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, Malyada ji,
> The series you started is wonderful & keep it upl!! We are waiting more
> threads from you on different species.
> Information on net is confusing because of so many similar species of
> Jasmine & their numerous varieties. May be one day we have a good
> authoritative book or website dedicated only on Jasmines & its varieties
> with good pictures to remove all these confusions (or is there already one
> on the subject- may from BSI). I hope the day is not far off.
> However, it is upto the members to continue discussions as long as they find
> interest & it leads to some definite conclusions.
>
> On 8/1/08, maly...@gmail.com <maly...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hello Garg Ji,
>
> > I agree with your opinion that its difficult to find all the species and
> > their varieties, but I dont think we should stop the effort of trying to
> > find it out. I at least want people who read these discussions later to know
> > that we have not been able to confirm some of the names. It just might
> > trigger further investigations and discoveries.
>
> > As I had written earlier, I am tired of information on the net which claims
> > conclusively that its a particular species, and the information turning out
> > to be wrong later. Its the biggest risk of the information which is found on
> > the net. Discussions and questions are the corner stone of the internet
> > information age, and I believe we should continue to debate as long as there
> > is interest in the thread from people.
>
> > Do let me know if you still want this thread to be closed, and I will
> > comply:)
>
> > thanks,
> > malyada
>
> > 2008/7/31 J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com>
>
>
>
> > Hello Garg Ji,
>
> > I agree with your opinion that its difficult to find all the species and
> > their varieties, but I dont think we should stop the effort of trying to
> > find it out. I at least want people who read these discussions later to know
> > that we have not been able to confirm some of the names. It just might
> > trigger further investigations and discoveries.
>
> > As I had written earlier, I am tired of information on the net which claims
> > conclusively that its a particular species, and the information turning out
> > to be wrong later. Its the biggest risk of the information which is found on
> > the net. Discussions and questions are the corner stone of the internet
> > information age, and I believe we should continue to debate as long as there
> > is interest in the thread from people.
>
> > Do let me know if you still want this thread to be closed, and I will
> > comply:)
>
> > thanks,
> > malyada
>
>
> >> I think discussions on common names will not lead us anywhere. Also
> >> finding the exact scientific name for us will also be difficult as we have
> >> around 40 species of Jasmine found wild in India leave alone the numerous
> >> varieties for each species. Finding the exact scientific name will be really
> >> difficult in such a combination.
> >> We should hopefully close this discussion now.
>
> >> 2008/7/25 Anand Kumar Bhatt <anandkbh...@gmail.com>
> >> I think discussions on common names will not lead us anywhere. Also
> >> finding the exact scientific name for us will also be difficult as we have
> >> around 40 species of Jasmine found wild in India leave alone the numerous
> >> varieties for each species. Finding the exact scientific name will be really
> >> difficult in such a combination.
> >> We should hopefully close this discussion now.
>
>
> >>> About J.sambac 'Motia' Bose's photograph shows double flower, the
> >>> text says medium sized and double. As Bose has used the word Motia it
> >>> would be difficult to say anything otherwise without some more
> >>> corroboration.
> >>> Regards,
> >>> akbhatt
>
> >>> 2008/7/25 <maly...@gmail.com>:
> >>> About J.sambac 'Motia' Bose's photograph shows double flower, the
> >>> text says medium sized and double. As Bose has used the word Motia it
> >>> would be difficult to say anything otherwise without some more
> >>> corroboration.
> >>> Regards,
> >>> akbhatt
>
> >>> > 12. J. sessiliflorum.......?
>
> >>> > Garg Ji, any more additions/corrections? My fascination with jasmine
> >>> mainly
> >>> > stems from its fragrance and its beauty as a vine/creeper. Somehow,
> >>> jasmine
> >>> > though found all over the world always symbolises home for me. Though I
> >>> > didnt start thinking on these lines, but now I am very much interested
> >>> in
> >>> > correctly knowing all the varieties of fragrant flowers I have seen in
> >>> > India. My husband too is quite amused with my activity:)
>
> >>> > thanks,
> >>> > malyada
>
> >>> > 2008/7/25 Anand Kumar Bhatt <anandkbh...@gmail.com>:
>
> >>> > Garg Ji, any more additions/corrections? My fascination with jasmine
> >>> mainly
> >>> > stems from its fragrance and its beauty as a vine/creeper. Somehow,
> >>> jasmine
> >>> > though found all over the world always symbolises home for me. Though I
> >>> > didnt start thinking on these lines, but now I am very much interested
> >>> in
> >>> > correctly knowing all the varieties of fragrant flowers I have seen in
> >>> > India. My husband too is quite amused with my activity:)
>
> >>> > thanks,
> >>> > malyada
>
>
> >>> >> to add further I am not sure of the distinction between mogra and
> >>> >> motia. Also whether bela is synonymous with mogra or motia or it is
> >>> >> encompassing more varieties?
> >>> >> akbhatt
>
> >>> >> 2008/7/25 Anand Kumar Bhatt <anandkbh...@gmail.com>:
> >>> >> to add further I am not sure of the distinction between mogra and
> >>> >> motia. Also whether bela is synonymous with mogra or motia or it is
> >>> >> encompassing more varieties?
> >>> >> akbhatt
>
> >>> >> >>> Dear Mr Bhatt, You are right Hindi names are easier to remember.
> >>> >> >>> I have a question here. As you said about Bela a small bush. In my
> >>> >> >>> Garden we
> >>> >> >>> have Bela all over but it is a creeper At one place it climbed on
> >>> >> >>> Palash
> >>> >> >>> tree so it is more than 20ft tall creeper now.
> >>> >> >>> Is this also the same variety of Bela or different. May I request
> >>> all
> >>> >> >>> experts on the group to solve this puzzle please.
> >>> >> >>> Satyendra
>
> >>> >> >>> 2008/7/22 Anand Kumar Bhatt <anandkbh...@gmail.com>:
> >>> >> >>> I have a question here. As you said about Bela a small bush. In my
> >>> >> >>> Garden we
> >>> >> >>> have Bela all over but it is a creeper At one place it climbed on
> >>> >> >>> Palash
> >>> >> >>> tree so it is more than 20ft tall creeper now.
> >>> >> >>> Is this also the same variety of Bela or different. May I request
> >>> all
> >>> >> >>> experts on the group to solve this puzzle please.
> >>> >> >>> Satyendra
>
>
> >>> >> >>>> Malyada! I find it much easier to remeber the jasmines by their
> >>> Hindi
> >>> >> >>>> names: Chameli (creeper, with relatively large single flowers.
> >>> Highly
> >>> >> >>>> fragrant. Juhi (small shrub or creeper with smallish flowers
> >>> >> >>>> (fragrant). Mogra (shrub, with highly scented flowerers). This
> >>> neeeds
> >>> >> >>>> pruning in winter. Otherwise flowering would be poor. This is
> >>> >> >>>> probably
> >>> >> >>>> also known as Bela. The last in the series is Sonjuhi (bush, can
> >>> be
> >>> >> >>>> trained as a creeper, no fragrance). I am not aware of any other
> >>> >> >>>> jasmine. You have also mentioned 3 varieties. I stand corrected.
> >>> >> >>>> Best wishes,
> >>> >> >>>> akbhatt
>
> >>> >> >>>> 2008/7/21 <maly...@gmail.com>:
> >>> >> >>>> Malyada! I find it much easier to remeber the jasmines by their
> >>> Hindi
> >>> >> >>>> names: Chameli (creeper, with relatively large single flowers.
> >>> Highly
> >>> >> >>>> fragrant. Juhi (small shrub or creeper with smallish flowers
> >>> >> >>>> (fragrant). Mogra (shrub, with highly scented flowerers). This
> >>> neeeds
> >>> >> >>>> pruning in winter. Otherwise flowering would be poor. This is
> >>> >> >>>> probably
> >>> >> >>>> also known as Bela. The last in the series is Sonjuhi (bush, can
> >>> be
> >>> >> >>>> trained as a creeper, no fragrance). I am not aware of any other
> >>> >> >>>> jasmine. You have also mentioned 3 varieties. I stand corrected.
> >>> >> >>>> Best wishes,
> >>> >> >>>> akbhatt
>
> >>> >> >>>> > Thank you Garg Ji. Yes, I guess I can be fairly certain that
> >>> >> >>>> > 'mogra' is
> >>> >> >>>> > indeed jasminum sambac. And today I happened to see a shrub
> >>> which
> >>> >> >>>> > must
> >>> >> >>>> > have
> >>> >> >>>> > been 2 metres or so. I was not sure about the height as I have
> >>> seen
> >>> >> >>>> > the
> >>> >> >>>> > cultivated ones which are generally smaller, and then
> >>> remembered
> >>> >> >>>> > they
> >>> >> >>>> > are
> >>> >> >>>> > pruned regularly.
>
> >>> >> >>>> > Thanks once again for writing back.
> >>> >> >>>> > malyada..
>
> >>> >> >>>> > 2008/7/21 J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com>:
> >>> >> >>>> > 'mogra' is
> >>> >> >>>> > indeed jasminum sambac. And today I happened to see a shrub
> >>> which
> >>> >> >>>> > must
> >>> >> >>>> > have
> >>> >> >>>> > been 2 metres or so. I was not sure about the height as I have
> >>> seen
> >>> >> >>>> > the
> >>> >> >>>> > cultivated ones which are generally smaller, and then
> >>> remembered
> >>> >> >>>> > they
> >>> >> >>>> > are
> >>> >> >>>> > pruned regularly.
>
> >>> >> >>>> > Thanks once again for writing back.
> >>> >> >>>> > malyada..
>
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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