Lagerstroemia duperreana Pierre from Bangalore-GS12012020-1

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Gurcharan Singh

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Jan 11, 2020, 10:27:46 PM1/11/20
to efloraofindia

Lagerstroemia duperreana Pierre

(Syn: Lagerstroemia thorelii Gagnep.)
A species not still represented in our database. 
A small tree with oblong-lanceolate leaves, up to 20 cm long, 9 cm broad, glabrous. Flowers in axillary panicles. Calyx tube rounded in bud, minutely appendaged,, not ribbed, stellate-tomentose. Petals ca 12 mm long, orbicular, crisped, lilac or purple, fading to white. Stamens many. Ovary glabrous.
Clicked from Lal Bagh, Bangalore, September 29, 2015. 




Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Mob: 9810359089
Lagerstroemia thorellii-Lal Bagh-IMG_5330-Bangalore-2.jpg
Lagerstroemia thorellii-Lal Bagh-IMG_5333-Bangalore-1.jpg

J.M. Garg

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Jan 19, 2020, 10:59:24 AM1/19/20
to efloraofindia, GurcharanSingh, Aarti S. Khale, surajitkoley, Mohina Macker, raman, Neil Soares, bindu kapadia
Many species are mentioned in different sources other than the usual ones as below:
Floriculture in India By Gurcharan Singh Randhawa, Amitabha Mukhopadhyay (1986) mentions Lagerstroemia thorellii Gagnep.
NTBG gibes Lagerstroemia duperreana Pierre ex Gagnep.
Flora of Pakistan mentions
Lagerstroemia tomentosa Presl (A native of Burma. Cultivated elsewhere)

Pl. see efi site pages at Lagerstroemia floribunda and Lagerstroemia tomentosa (many posts look similar to your post).

I think we need to find out the correct id along with keys to different posts, including yours.

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surajit koley

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Jan 20, 2020, 11:48:09 AM1/20/20
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, GurcharanSingh, Aarti S. Khale, Mohina Macker, raman, Neil Soares, bindu kapadia
Thank you Sir. I'll try to reassess my uploads, if necessary.

With regards,

Surajit Koley

J.M. Garg

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Jan 28, 2020, 7:48:42 AM1/28/20
to surajit koley, efloraofindia, GurcharanSingh, Aarti S. Khale, Mohina Macker, raman, Neil Soares, bindu kapadia
Yes, Surajit ji.
Pl. go ahead.
I think Lagerstroemia tomentosa Presl is OK. Problem is to find our weather our posts at Lagerstroemia floribunda are of Lagerstroemia floribunda or Lagerstroemia duperreana.
As I could not find any difference or keys on net, we may have to rely on GBIF specimens available at Lagerstroemia floribunda and Lagerstroemia duperreana

J.M. Garg

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Jan 28, 2020, 8:02:09 AM1/28/20
to surajit koley, efloraofindia, GurcharanSingh, Aarti S. Khale, Mohina Macker, raman, Neil Soares, bindu kapadia

J.M. Garg

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Feb 4, 2020, 11:07:47 PM2/4/20
to surajit koley, efloraofindia, GurcharanSingh, Aarti S. Khale, Mohina Macker, raman, Neil Soares, bindu kapadia
Before I could finally take decision regarding shifting all other posts at Lagerstroemia floribunda and Lagerstroemia floribunda ? to Lagerstroemia duperreana, I found the keys at Survey of Lagerstroemia L. (Lythraceae) in Indochina (excl. Thailand) with the description of Lagerstroemia densiflora, sp. nov., a new species from Vietnam Willem J. J. O. DE WILDE, Brigitta E. E. DUYFJES Adansonia, sér. 3, 38 (2): 241-255. (2016) as given below:
KEY TO FLOWERING SPECIMENS OF LAGERSTROEMIA L. IN INDOCHINA
(Petals measured in the dry state; the pseudopedicel is the narrowed shorter or longer stipe of the base of the calyx tube)
1. Ovary glabrous ............. 2
— Ovary hairy .................. 12
2. Flowers small, the bud 1.5-2 mm diam. ........... 13. L. micrantha Merr.
— Flowers larger, the bud 5 mm diam. or more ... 3
3. Flower bud (excluding pseudopedicel) globose ............ 4
— Flower bud obovoid ...................................................... 7
4. Flower bud smooth, un-ridged, glabrous, 5-7 mm diam. Petals with claw c. 10 mm long, claw about as long as blade (cultivated) ......... 8. L. indica L.
— Flower bud ridged, short-hairy or glabrous, 5-15 mm diam. Claw of petals much shorter than the blade .......... 5
5. Flower bud c. 5 mm diam., thinly hairy; petals c. 15 mm long ............... 7. L. gagnepainii Furtado & Srisuko
— Flower bud 8-15 mm diam., hairy or glabrous; petals 20 mm long or more ................................................ 6
6. Flower bud glabrous, 12-15 mm diam. ...................................................................... 12. L. macrocarpa Kurz
— Flower bud thinly hairy, 8-11 mm diam. ..................................................................... 17. L. speciosa (L.) Pers.
7. Flower bud (calyx tube) not ridged. Infl orescence compact ....... 4. L. densiflora W.J.de Wilde & Duyfj es, sp. nov.
— Flower bud (calyx tube) ridged, sometimes faintly ridged only. Inflorescence compact or lax ....................... 8
8. Ridges (faint) 12, twice the number of calyx lobes ................ 5. L. duperreana Pierre ex Gagnep.
— Ridges 5-9, all alternating with as many calyx lobes ............ 9
9. Flowers large, petals 20 mm long or more. Calyx lobes (6-)7-9 ............ 15. L. ovalifolia Teijsm. & Binn.
— Flowers smaller, petals less than 10 mm long. Calyx lobes (5 or) 6 ..... 10
10. Calyx with large ear-like auricles, at anthesis resembling calyx lobes, alternating with the calyx lobes ................ 20. L. venusta Wall. ex C.B.Clarke
— Calyx without large auricles .................... 11
11. Infl orescences compact, short, 3-8 cm long. Leaves beneath with simple hairs all over ............. 21. L. villosa Wall. ex Kurz
— Infl orescences lax, 8-25 cm long. Leaves glabrescent or with minute hairs along the midrib beneath ................ 3. L. crispa Pierre ex Laness.
12. Calyx lobes glabrous within ............................ 13
— Calyx lobes (in upper part) hairy within ............ 15
13. Petiole 1-2 cm long. Petals including claw c. 30 mm long .............. 16. L. petiolaris Pierre ex Laness.
— Petiole less than 1 cm long. Petals including claw less than 30 mm long ........ 14
14. Lower surface of leaves hairy; venation scalariform. Calyx tube with low ridges ......... 19. L. tomensosa C.Presl
— Lower surface of leaves glabrous; venation reticulate. Calyx tube with conspicuous winged ridges ............. 9. L. kratiensis W.J.de Wilde & Duyfj es
15. Calyx tube not or obscurely ridged ................. 16
— Calyx tube with prominent ridges or wings ....... 19    
16. Infl orescences mostly lateral. Margin of petals fi mbriate. Leaf venation scalariform (introduced) .............. 11. L. loudonii Teijsm. & Binn.
— Infl orescences terminal. Margin of petals entire or erose. Leaf venation scalariform or reticulate ................ 17
17. Flower bud obovoid, sessile, i.e. (almost) without pseudopedicel. Leaf venation scalariform .......... 1. L. calyculata Kurz
— Flower bud ± abruptly narrowed into (short) pseudopedicel. Leaf venation reticulate ....................... 18
18. Petals 15-30 mm long. Longer stamens 6, radially dimorphic ............... 2. L. cochinchinensis Pierre ex Laness.
— Petals 12-15 mm long. Longer stamens 9-11, asymmetrically dimorphic ............. 14. L. noei Craib
19. Calyx tube with 5 or 6 ridges ............... 10. L. lecomtei Gagnep.
— Calyx tube with 12(-14) ridges ............... 20
20. Calyx tube obtusely (broadly) ridged, without or with small auricle (knob-like appendix) at the sinuses between The lobes. Ridges not winged ........... 6. L. floribunda Jack
— Calyx tube acutely ridged, in bud with small inward-curved auricle at the sinuses. Ridges winged, wings 2-3 mm high ............ 18. L. spireana Gagnep.

Description for both from this document s given below:
Lagerstroemia duperreana Pierre ex Gagnep.
SPOT-CHARACTERS. — Bark light brown, flaking; leaves, inflorescences, ovaries, capsules all glabrous; pseudopedicel long, 6-12 mm long; calyx lobes conspicuous densely whitish hairy in upper part within.
DISTRIBUTION. — Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam.

Lagerstroemia floribunda Jack
SPOT-CHARACTERS. — Bark light brown, flaking; inflorescences short-hairy rust coloured; calyx tube c. 12-ridged; ovary densely hairy; capsules hairy, especially at apex.
DISTRIBUTION. — Myanmar, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, Peninsular Malaysia.

In view, I think we should take all our posts at Lagerstroemia floribunda and Lagerstroemia floribunda ? as Lagerstroemia duperreana

J.M. Garg

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Feb 11, 2020, 7:15:14 AM2/11/20
to GurcharanSingh, efloraofindia, surajitkoley, Aarti S. Khale, Mohina Macker, raman, Neil Soares, bindu kapadia
Hi, Singh ji,
May I request you to pl. post the original images one by one.
I apprehend that it may be Lagerstroemia floribunda only as fruits appear to be hairy as in August2015sk03/03 -- Lagerstroemia cultivar2

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Lagerstroemia thorellii-Lal Bagh-IMG_5330-Bangalore-2.jpg
Lagerstroemia thorellii-Lal Bagh-IMG_5333-Bangalore-1.jpg

Gurcharan Singh

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Feb 11, 2020, 7:36:03 AM2/11/20
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, surajitkoley, Aarti S. Khale, Mohina Macker, raman, Neil Soares, bindu kapadia
This should remove any doubt 
Both Kew Database and Catalogue of Life consider it synonym of 

Lagerstroemia duperreana Pierre ex Gagnep.


Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Mob: 9810359089
Lagerstroemia thorellii-Lal Bagh-IMG_5329-a.jpg

Gurcharan Singh

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Feb 11, 2020, 7:47:11 AM2/11/20
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, surajitkoley, Aarti S. Khale, Mohina Macker, raman, Neil Soares, bindu kapadia
This should remove any doubt 
Both Kew Database and Catalogue of Life consider it synonym of Lagerstroemia duperreana Pierre ex Gagnep.




Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Mob: 9810359089


Lagerstroemia thorellii-Lal Bagh-IMG_5329-a.jpg

Gurcharan Singh

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Feb 11, 2020, 7:49:35 AM2/11/20
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, surajitkoley, Aarti S. Khale, Mohina Macker, raman, Neil Soares, bindu kapadia
Here are some original images 





Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Mob: 9810359089

On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 6:06 PM Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com> wrote:
Lagerstroemia thorelii-Lal Bagh-IMG_5332.jpg
Lagerstroemia thorelii-Lal Bagh-IMG_5334.jpg

Gurcharan Singh

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Feb 11, 2020, 7:50:10 AM2/11/20
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, surajitkoley, Aarti S. Khale, Mohina Macker, raman, Neil Soares, bindu kapadia
One more





Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Mob: 9810359089

Lagerstroemia thorelii-Lal Bagh-IMG_5335.jpg

J.M. Garg

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Feb 11, 2020, 8:57:06 AM2/11/20
to Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia, surajitkoley, Aarti S. Khale, Mohina Macker, raman, Neil Soares, bindu kapadia
Images of the fruits are not clear, but I have the feeling that they appear to be hairy. 
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With regards,
J. M. Garg

J.M. Garg

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Feb 11, 2020, 8:58:09 AM2/11/20
to Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia, surajitkoley, Aarti S. Khale, Mohina Macker, raman, Neil Soares, bindu kapadia
Where is the original of the first posted image? 


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With regards,
J. M. Garg

Gurcharan Singh

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Feb 11, 2020, 9:36:20 AM2/11/20
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, surajitkoley, Aarti S. Khale, Mohina Macker, raman, Neil Soares, bindu kapadia
Here it is.





Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Mob: 9810359089

Lagerstroemia thorellii-Lal Bagh-IMG_5330.jpg

J.M. Garg

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Feb 11, 2020, 10:08:40 AM2/11/20
to Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia, surajitkoley, Aarti S. Khale, Mohina Macker, raman, Neil Soares, bindu kapadia
Thanks, Singh ji. 
Here also fruits are not clear. 


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With regards,
J. M. Garg

Gurcharan Singh

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Feb 11, 2020, 10:51:56 AM2/11/20
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, surajitkoley, Aarti S. Khale, Mohina Macker, raman, Neil Soares, bindu kapadia
They are glabrous

Please compare with L. floribunda





Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Mob: 9810359089

Lagerstroemia thorelii-Lal Bagh-IMG_5334-a.jpg
Lagerstroemia thorellii-Lal Bagh-IMG_5330-a.jpg

J.M. Garg

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Feb 11, 2020, 9:48:39 PM2/11/20
to Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia, surajitkoley, Aarti S. Khale, Mohina Macker, raman, Neil Soares, bindu kapadia
Thanks, Singh ji 
These images clearly show that fruits are hairy. Pl. compare with Surajit ji's images I have forwarded to you. 


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With regards,
J. M. Garg

J.M. Garg

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Feb 11, 2020, 10:23:52 PM2/11/20
to Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia, surajitkoley, Aarti S. Khale, Mohina Macker, raman, Neil Soares, bindu kapadia
Even images displayed at NTBG are of Lagerstroemia floribunda and not of Lagerstroemia duperreana Pierre ex Gagnep. as ridges on buds are prominent and fruits are hairy.

J.M. Garg

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Feb 11, 2020, 10:23:55 PM2/11/20
to efloraofindia, GurcharanSingh
Hi, Singh ji,
Pl. see this image. Here young fruits (top 2) are clearly hairy.

Lagerstroemia thorelii-Lal Bagh-IMG_5332.jpg

J.M. Garg

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Feb 11, 2020, 10:26:49 PM2/11/20
to efloraofindia, GurcharanSingh
Hi, Singh ji,
Pl. see this image. Inflorescence is clearly hairy and not glabrous (glabrous as in L.floraibunda).

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 at 20:06
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:340165] Lagerstroemia duperreana Pierre from Bangalore-GS12012020-1
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, surajitkoley <surajitno...@gmail.com>, Aarti S. Khale <aarti...@gmail.com>, Mohina Macker <mohina...@gmail.com>, raman <raman_ar...@yahoo.com>, Neil Soares <drneil...@yahoo.com>, bindu kapadia <bind...@gmail.com>
Lagerstroemia thorellii-Lal Bagh-IMG_5330.jpg

J.M. Garg

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Feb 11, 2020, 10:40:16 PM2/11/20
to Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia, surajitkoley, Aarti S. Khale, Mohina Macker, raman, Neil Soares, bindu kapadia
Also see Trees of Delhi: A Field Guide By Pradip Krishen (2005), which clearly illustrates L.floribunda and matches with our postings.
I think all our plants recorded from Kolkata, Delhi, Bangalore etc. belong to Lagerstroemia floribunda only.

Mahadeswara

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Feb 11, 2020, 11:15:20 PM2/11/20
to efloraofindia
In conclusion what is the final ID.

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J.M. Garg

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Feb 12, 2020, 12:58:12 AM2/12/20
to efloraofindia, M Swamy
I will go for Lagerstroemia floribunda only

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J.M. Garg

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Feb 12, 2020, 2:59:39 AM2/12/20
to M Swamy, efloraofindia
Thanks, Mahadeswara ji.

On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 at 12:48, M Swamy <swamy...@gmail.com> wrote:
Thaks Garg ji. I am interested in this plant as Lagersroemis species are common in gardens here.
Regards 
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