is this Datura ?

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preeti patil

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14-Jun-2010, 10:19:44 am14/06/10
to indiantreepix

Found this beautiful tree in Tata Power Gardens at Lonavala.....

Is this Datura?
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Preeti Patil
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DSC01062.JPG
datura flower.JPG

tanay bose

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14-Jun-2010, 10:36:05 am14/06/10
to preeti patil, indiantreepix
Dear Preeti Ji,
I think this is Brugmansia candida commonly known as Angel's Trumpet Tree.
Regards
Tanay

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mani nair

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14-Jun-2010, 1:09:07 pm14/06/10
to tanay bose, preeti patil, indiantreepix
Preeti ji, is the fruit ball shaped with small thorns?  then it will be Datura.

preeti patil

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14-Jun-2010, 11:25:39 pm14/06/10
to mani nair, tanay bose, indiantreepix
Thanks Tanay and Nair ji

I felt it was Angels Trumpet... but was confused. It didnt seem to have any fruits.

Thanks.

Preeti

preeti patil

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14-Jun-2010, 11:33:48 pm14/06/10
to mani nair, tanay bose, indiantreepix
They are the same , Arent they? Angels Trumpet and Datura? He.... he .... sorry for my ignorance!

Regards

Preeti

tanay bose

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15-Jun-2010, 12:23:20 am15/06/10
to preeti patil, mani nair, indiantreepix

Dear Preeti j,


There is nothing to get ashamed of and feel you are ignorant. Many members of the group do have a passion for floristic diversity of India but may not know the scientific name or not aware of the botanical aspect of the plants. It is a common aspect of this group that we welcome all people with the vision to respect and love plant. You may be not aware of the botanical name but made the lovely effort to take its photo and post it out in this group where other members can see it and if possible identify it (scientifically). Your as well as contribution from all members are invaluable for us and will help us all to reach our goal to create Eflora of India. Contributions from all members have made this group largest of its kinds in India and probably of the world with 1241 members.

Both Brugmansia & Datura are in the same family of Solanaceae.

Brugmansia grow into trees, produce brown wood and are perennial in warmer climates. 99% of their flowers point down and are usually called Angels Trumpet. They produce green bean like seed pods.

Datura are annual bushes (except in climates with no frost) and do not produce brown wood. Their stems and trunks are almost always green. Their flowers point up and are mistakenly called Angels Trumpet but are actually Devils Trumpet. They produce round; spiky or bumpy seed pods that can literally explode when ripe throwing seeds all over the place if the pod is not well hydrated.

Daturas are most easily propagated via seed and come true from seed. Brugmansias do not come true from seed and are very easily propagated via cutting.

"Datura is annual bushes (except in climates with no frost) and do not produce brown wood. Their stems and trunks are almost always green."
Some varieties have BLACK stems and trunks (very gothic-looking).

Datura as a genus has much more variation between species than Brugsmansia. Most Brugsmansia look very alike with the exception of Brugsmansia sanguinea and vulcanicola. Datura species on the other hand have several different growth habits and may be low lying, spreading, or upright with green to purple stems. Several species have hairy stems and leaves especially Datura ferox. The most interesting Datura species I grow is Datura ceratocaula, a semi-aquatic species from Mexico and South America that has an unbranched stem with small leaves only at the apical portion.

Datura is a short lived perennial down here, and lives three to four years, and does produce some brown woody trunks and stems. However, they will never get more than about 4 feet tall, no matter how much you feed them. There are some varieties of datura that actually sprawl.

All parts of both are extremely toxic. The roots, stems, flowers, leaves and seeds contain the chemicals atropine, scopolamine and hyoscyamine in varying concentrations. If you have toddlers or pets that like to sample plants you must take special care to make sure they cannot come in contact in anyway with either plant. If ingested it could kill them.

When handling either, make it a point not to touch your face, eat or handle food until you have washed your hands. There have been a few posts in the last few months describing the symptoms of Solanaceae poisoning. If you have ever experienced headaches, confusion or vision problems after working with your Brugmansia or Datura, you have inadvertently poisoned yourself. Most of the time you will not connect the two. I have poisoned myself unknowingly harvesting Datura seeds when I had open cuts on my fingers or neglected to wash my hands right after harvesting the seeds.

(Ref: Garden Web)

 

Regards

Tanay

Vinay Das

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15-Jun-2010, 12:33:34 am15/06/10
to tanay bose, preeti patil, mani nair, indiantreepix
Tanay ji,

You wrote this : "Brugmansias do not come true from seed and are very easily propagated via cutting." But natural (i.e. w/o human intervention) propagation of Brugmansias must still rely on seeds right? Or are there plants that propagate naturally using bits of themselves (cuttings)?

thanks,
-Vinay

tanay bose

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15-Jun-2010, 12:59:33 am15/06/10
to Vinay Das, preeti patil, mani nair, indiantreepix

Dear Vinay Ji,


A huge number of species from both Brugmansia as well as Datura are developed into garden plants (as far as I know) from centuries; several hybrids are regularly developed all round the world. Any and almost all plant can regenerate its own kind through seed propagation. All the plants today we see in our garden were wild at some period of time this is even true for our crop plants. Domestication of a plant may not disable its reproductive capacity but horticulturists many a times through experiments have tried to generate plants through vegetative propagation. Many plants do not accepts the process of vegetative propagation and hence compel one to propagate it through seeds.  The case may be true for this to genera.

Another very important point for which vegetative reproductions are carried out in horticultural plants is heredity. When a plant reproduces through seeds all of the daughter plants are not in toto with the mother plant both genetically and morphologically (or can be same) the reason has long been decipher by Gregor Mendel. Horticulturalists are not always interested in genetic shift but are very selective when it comes to morphological loss or shift which is not at all accepted by them. Hence when you propagate a plant through vegetative means they are in toto with the mother plant (both genetically and morphologically) this is a good option for them. This is the reason why many plants like roses, hibiscus and many more to say are propagated through stem cutting (vegetative).

Hope this will remove a bit of your doubts, if you still have some feel free to mail me back.

Regards

Tanay

Vinay Das

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15-Jun-2010, 1:07:21 am15/06/10
to tanay bose, preeti patil, mani nair, indiantreepix
Very lucid answer Tanay, thanks a lot! It most certainly removed 'a bit of my doubts' as you so aptly put it! I've forgotten too much of my botany - only school level that too - to be totally doubt free! :) But I'm at least clear about this one aspect, thanks to you!

-vnd
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tanay bose

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15-Jun-2010, 1:10:33 am15/06/10
to Vinay Das, preeti patil, mani nair, indiantreepix
Dear Vinay Ji,
I am not good when it comes to horticulture, any horticulturist members out here if responses to you post may give you a better explanation.
Regards
Tanay

Muthu Karthick

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15-Jun-2010, 1:46:18 am15/06/10
to tanay bose, Vinay Das, preeti patil, mani nair, indiantreepix
Dear all,
Is the posted picture is Brugmansia arborea ( L. ) Lagerh. of Solanaceae?
Muthu Karthick, N
Junior Research Fellow
Care Earth Trust
Chennai - 61
www.careearthtrust.org

tanay bose

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15-Jun-2010, 1:59:45 am15/06/10
to Muthu Karthick, Vinay Das, preeti patil, mani nair, indiantreepix
Dear Muthu,
There is difference in floral morphology kindly see my attachment.
Regards
Tanay
Difference.jpg

Pankaj Oudhia

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15-Jun-2010, 2:02:59 am15/06/10
to efloraofindia
Hi Preeti,

  Are you saying about Brugmansia suaveolens (syn. Datura suaveolens)???

Pankaj Oudhia

Muthu Karthick

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15-Jun-2010, 2:03:58 am15/06/10
to tanay bose, Vinay Das, preeti patil, mani nair, indiantreepix
Many thanks Tanayji for the poster showing differnce in Floral morphology.

Muthu Karthick

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15-Jun-2010, 2:05:11 am15/06/10
to Pankaj Oudhia, efloraofindia
So is Brugmansia suaveolens a synonym for B.candida?

preeti patil

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15-Jun-2010, 10:27:26 am15/06/10
to tanay bose, mani nair, indiantreepix
Thanks Tanay for this detailed info. I was planning to grow this on my terrace garden atop the centralised kitchen in MBPT.

But I guess will shift it now to another location.

It is so beautiful, cant let it go. Is it poisonous to birds too? The maali in the garden from where i got the cutting  told us it wasn't. And i was curious.

Thanks once again.

Regards

Preeti
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