¿ woody-climber with green coloured flowers ?

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Dinesh Valke

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Feb 21, 2009, 6:33:17 AM2/21/09
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Hello friends,

... a woody climber I saw at Matheran on 18 Feb, 2009; request for ID.

Regards.

P1220808.jpg
P1220805.jpg

oikos for ecological services

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Feb 22, 2009, 11:52:31 PM2/22/09
to Dinesh Valke, Indian Tree Pix
Great photos of an uncommon climber. Not much known. It might be Arnicratea grahmii. It is seen in Ghat forests, have large pods with silky winged reddish seeds. Attaching photo of its fruit. Pl confirm if you saw some such fruits of last year on the same climber. It is known as lokhandi in some parts.



Arnicratea grahmii - lokhandi (1).jpg

Yazdy Palia

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Feb 23, 2009, 1:42:46 PM2/23/09
to oikos for ecological services, Dinesh Valke, Indian Tree Pix
I would not know the climbers shown in the pictures of Dineshji
however the picture of the climber shown by Oikos looks like a Vanilla
vine.
Regards
Y. R. Palia.
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Dinesh Valke

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Feb 24, 2009, 1:57:23 AM2/24/09
to Yazdy Palia, oikos for ecological services, Indian Tree Pix

I searched Arnicratea grahamii.
Synonym Reissantia grahamii mentioned at Database of Western Ghats Flora, http://wgbis.ces.iisc.ernet.in/biodiversity/database/?q=node/8 seems to be popular; yields more information.on internet.
Another synonym is Hippocratea grahamii.

1) Description at link below seems to agree with the photo I have put.
[ An Excursion Flora of Central Tamilnadu, India By K. M. Matthew ] http://books.google.com/books?id=umMFT6tKtrkC&pg=PA86&lpg=PA86&dq=Reissantia+grahamii&source=bl&ots=1zLNYZRx81&sig=tIIA6TJqHr5_d747w_0pv5ufosY&hl=en&ei=yHCjSefaEZWukAWY0-i6BQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result

2) Common names put at the link below, has one of the name, lokhandi, similar to one that OIKOS mentioned.
[ ENVIS / FRLHT ] http://envis.frlht.org.in/botanical_search.php?txtbtname=Reissantia+grahamii&gesp=7015%7CReissantia+grahamii+%28WIGHT%29+DING.HOU.

3) Of great interest is an article of Gazetteers of the Bombay Presidency - Thana, which discusses flora of Matheran.
http://www.maharashtra.gov.in/pdf/gazeetter_reprint/Thane-III/places_Matheran.html
 
Yazdi ji, I am convinced that the plant in my photo is Hippocratea grahamii whose current name is Arnicratea grahamii.
If you think not, please comment again.
 
Many thanks to OIKOS for providing help with ID.
 
Regards.

Yazdy Palia

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Feb 24, 2009, 12:46:02 PM2/24/09
to Dinesh Valke, oikos for ecological services, Indian Tree Pix
Dear Dineshji,
I am not a botanist. The leaves look like the leaves of vanilla.
However, you may be right.
Regards
Yazdy Palia.

Dinesh Valke

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Feb 25, 2009, 9:57:08 AM2/25/09
to Yazdy Palia, oikos for ecological services, Indian Tree Pix
I have not seen yet vanilla plant, though there is one Vanilla walkeriae illustrated in Further Flowers of Sahyadri, Shrikant Ingalhalikar ji's book; that flower is relatively very large and different, and the plant itself is of different habit, and cultivated.
 
And Yazdi ji ... I and you are in the same boat ... not botanists !!!
Regards

Yazdy Palia

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Feb 25, 2009, 1:52:54 PM2/25/09
to Dinesh Valke, oikos for ecological services, Indian Tree Pix
The picture of the plant sent by Oikos looks just like a vanilla vine.
Please go through the following link and observe the similarities
between the leaves.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/46676749@N00/2687188420/
http://www.picsearch.com/search.cgi?q=Vanilla&start=1&t=IdzgrFguaSUfn1fWgEz8ZCxMIRt39fuD36oPPW%2B%2BCBY%3D&nav1
Regards
Yazdy Palia.

Dinesh Valke

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Feb 26, 2009, 1:30:25 AM2/26/09
to Yazdy Palia, oikos for ecological services, Indian Tree Pix
But the OIKOS picture shows pods, not leaves.
Regards.

Yazdy Palia

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Feb 26, 2009, 2:13:29 AM2/26/09
to Dinesh Valke, oikos for ecological services, Indian Tree Pix
Dear Dineshji,
Though Oikos mentions pods with redish winged seeds. I do not see any
pods. If you get a chance to come over to Wayanad, I will show you
Vanilla vines. The leaves are very thick and it looks exactly like the
picture that Oikos has attached. The entire climber is very
succulent.
Vanilla after all is a kind of an orchid. The Vanilla beans could be
anywhere around 10 mm in diameter and between 4" to over 6" in length.
The dark object in Oikos picture is not a pod but a leaf in the
shadows. You would need a better picture to identify it perfectly.
Regards
Yazdy Palia.

Dinesh Valke

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Feb 26, 2009, 3:36:56 AM2/26/09
to Yazdy Palia, oikos for ecological services, Indian Tree Pix
Oh... it could be so as you say, Yazdi ji.
 
I have perceived them as pods just as OIKOS have stated ... similar kind of pods are seen of Pongam tree, or of common derris.
I request OIKOS to come forward and give some description of these pods (may be dimensions, the colour of raw and rpe pod, and any such information) that would lay at rest, any doubts in this message thread.

oikos for ecological services

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Feb 26, 2009, 8:54:15 AM2/26/09
to Dinesh Valke, Yazdy Palia, Indian Tree Pix
Read through all these mails creating confusion.
The picture attached is of pods and not leaves. It measures 3-4 inches, pretty huge ones. It is green coloured when young, while turns brown when ripe. There are three arms in each fruit.
Scientifically, it is called as capsule as per BSI flora. Each arm have several silky, dark redish - brown winged seeds.
It is definitely not vanila leaf, we have collected seeds of Hippocratea grahmii many times & do have its saplings at our nursery.

Dinesh Valke

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Feb 26, 2009, 9:21:59 AM2/26/09
to oikos for ecological services, Yazdy Palia, Indian Tree Pix
Thanks OIKOS for quick clarification.
 
On the humourous side, your line " Read through all these mails creating confusion " almost sounded like a tacit warning and sort of reminded me the story of the Blind men and an elephant. :)
Once again thanks for the ID.

Yazdy Palia

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Feb 26, 2009, 7:21:47 PM2/26/09
to Dinesh Valke, oikos for ecological services, Indian Tree Pix
Dear OIKOS,
Many thanks for correcting me.
Regards
Yazdy Palia.
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