tree or shrub from Hooghly 14/12/12 sk

[surajit koley]

Sir,

Found this tree or shrub beside a road in a dense thicket, it was not possible to ascertain if it was a tree or not.

Species : UNKNOWN

H & H : tree or shrub, leaves alternate, one or two branches bear spine

Date : 14/12/12, 1.30 p.m.

Place : Hooghly

Thank you & Regards,

surajit

[jmgarg1]

Forwarding again for Id assistance please.

--
 
 
 

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg. You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group: http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix (more than 2015 members & 1,39,500 messages on 30/11/12) or Efloraofindia website: https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/ (with a species database of more than 7500 species).

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'. 

[surajit koley]

Thank you Sir, this is a tree, found another one, about 20 ft high.

Regards,

surajit

[Prasad Dash]

Surajit Ji. This is a member of Euphorbiaceae (Flowers are yet to open). I think once temperature increase they will start flowering.Please check Trewia?

Regards

Prasad

--
 
 
 

--
Dr. Prasad Kumar Dash
Ecologist, Odisha, India
email: prasad....@gmail.com
ph. 09437444241

[surajit koley]

Thank you very much Prasad Ji,

This seems to be Mallotus tetracoccus (Roxb.) Kurz as in - http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=109915&flora_id=2 and http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242331439

Attaching new pictures, recorded today.

Regards,

surajit

On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Prasad Dash <prasad....@gmail.com> wrote:

Surajit Ji. This is a member of Euphorbiaceae (Flowers are yet to open). I think once temperature increase they will start flowering.Please check Trewia?

Regards

Prasad

[jmgarg1]

Forwarding again for Id confirmation or otherwise please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

Thank you Sir, this is a tree, found another one, about 20 ft high. Regards, surajit

Surajit Ji. This is a member of Euphorbiaceae (Flowers are yet to open). I think once temperature increase they will start flowering.Please check Trewia? Regards Prasad
Thank you very much Prasad Ji,

This seems to be Mallotus tetracoccus (Roxb.) Kurz as in - http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=109915&flora_id=2 and http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242331439 Attaching new pictures, recorded today. Regards, surajit

efi site link: https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/a---l/e/euphorbiaceae/mallotus/mallotus-tetracoccus

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: surajit koley <surajitno...@gmail.com>
Date: 14 December 2012 21:49
Subject: [efloraofindia:140578] tree or shrub from Hooghly 14/12/12 sk
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

--
 
 
 

[jmgarg1]

A reply:

"Yes,

It is Trevia nudiflora, perhaps var. nudiflora. Fl. Malesiana people reduced it to Mallotus. The references are as follows:

Trevia nudiflora L., Sp. Pl. 1193. 1753; Müll.Arg. in DC., Prodr. 15(2): 953. 1866; Hook.f., Fl. Brit. India 423. 1887. Mallotus nudiflorus (L.) Kulju & Welzen, Blumea 52: 124. 2007." from Tapas Chakrabarty ji.

[jmgarg1]

A reply:

"I think I am mistaken,

after detailed studies, I find that the leaves in Trevia are opposite whereas the leaves here are stated to be alternate. Please allow me one or two days for further confirmation. It might be a species of Mallotus.

Wishing you all a happy and prosperous new year.

TC."

[Giby Kuriakose]

It is neither Trewia nor Mallotus tetracoccus. 

I think this is a straggling species. I think it could be a species of Crotton 

Regards

Giby

--
 
 
 

--
GIBY KURIAKOSE PhD
Assistant Professor
PG and Research Department of Botany
Sacred Heart College
Thevara
Kochi- 682 013
Kerala, India
Phone - +914844044436 (office) +919947109987 (Mobile)
visit my pictures @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/giby

[surajit koley]

Sir,

Though this plant in this thread looks like straggling shrub, i think, the main trunk might have been cut by someone. I found another one which was a small tree.

FoC and FoP inform that leaves of Mallotus are "alternate or opposite". and also in the pdf found at - https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bitstream/handle/1887/12383/Kulju_thesis_4_Cp3.pdf?sequence=12.

Thank you very much,

Regards,

surajit

[Giby Kuriakose]

I too have got the same plant and still remain unidentified.

Regards

Giby

[surajit koley]

Giby Sir,

Pasting the links of page 948 and 949 of "Bengal Plants" -

• http://ia600604.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?id=mobot31753000237419&itemPath=%2F32%2Fitems%2Fmobot31753000237419&server=ia600604.us.archive.org&page=n289_w1150.jpg
  
• http://ia700604.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?id=mobot31753000237419&itemPath=%2F32%2Fitems%2Fmobot31753000237419&server=ia700604.us.archive.org&page=n290_w1150.jpg
  

Thank you,

Regards,

surajit

[Tapas Chakrabarty]

Croton! it is a very wild guess.  Please have patience.  Tomorrow I will download all images at my office and if I get time tomorrow itself your problem will be solved.  I am keeping pending the identity of Phyllantus also.

TC.

On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Giby Kuriakose <giby.ku...@gmail.com> wrote:

[jmgarg1]

A reply:
"I do no remember the particular enquiries on Euphorbiaceae.  However I am giving the following identifications.

.........................................

Euphorbiaceae: Trevia, Croton and etc. perhaps from West Bengal: It is Mallotus repandus.

Happy new year.

Tapas Chakrabarty."

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group: http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix (more than 2030 members & 1,42,000 messages on 31/12/12) or Efloraofindia website: https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/ (with a species database of more than 7500 species).

[surajit koley]

Thank you very much Sir.

But, the leaf pictures of Mallotus repandus (Willd.) Müll.Arg., found in the FoC, looks different to me - http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200012594.

Moreover flowering time also differs, that can also be found in the description of Rottlera dicocca Roxb. in the Flora Indica.

Regards,

surajit

[Tapas Chakrabarty]

Dear Sir,

I request you to follow the undermentioned steps for satisfactory identification of your photographs which is without any voucher specimen (and you are not satisfied with the identification):

First, please try to learn the range of variation of a widespread species.  Just forget about the flowering and fruiting time. Do you think that it is a new species as it is differing from Flora of China.  Then just publish it.

Second, instead of looking at Flora of China, please consult the following publication: The family Euphorbiaceae in India by N.P.Balakrishnan and T. Chakrabarty, published in 2007 by Bishen Singh Mahendra Pal Singh, Dehra Dun.

Third, please collect a specimen of your object and preserve it.  Next, visit Central National Herbarium, Howrah one day and compare your specimen with the specimens of Mallotus repandus.

I hope, you will get the identity of your photographs.  Please remember that photographic identification is never authentic.

Regards,

T. Chakrabarty.

[surajit koley]

Sir,

I apologize for any audacity i have expressed in my earlier mails.

Being only an amateur photographer i only try to compare images with those available in the net and take help in this group to know the id of plants i see around me. I thought this plant is the same what had been recorded in "Bengal Plants" as Mallotus albus Muell.-Arg.

I am very sorry for my last email and i understand that photographic comparison or Flora of China is not the last word.

Thank you very much.

Regards.

surajit

[surajit koley]

Sir,

I will certainly keep watching this plant. If it is a dioecious plant there won't be any fruit on this very individual, but there might also be a female plant nearby. Will take a note.

Regards,

surajit

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com> wrote:

Many of us may be experts in our own field, occupying high positions and treat people accordingly in our institution, but when we are joining such a forum, where more than ninety percent members may not understand a bit of botany, but have passion for photography and love for plants, we have to interact accordingly, keeping dignity of each member in mind.

    I may make a very wild guess, knowing well that I am doing this to keep the thread moving.......but if some one else tells me that you have made a wild guess.....perhaps not good for the health and progress of the group.

     I have seen phase of both spending days in herbaria around the world for more than 40 years, and just 5 years behind a DSLR camera and vast electronic information on the web, and frankly agree, I must have learnt 10 times more in these five years than I learnt about Flora of India and outside in last forty years.........All credit to well-knit family of efloraofindia, who love sharing information.

     I think there is no harm in consulting eflora of China, since it covers most of our Flora, is one of the very recent treatments, and a thorough one at that.....and more so since both species under consideration are discussed and keyed. It is also accessible to all. Perhaps Surajit ji will know the true identity, once it comes to fruit, or even earlier. He is our one of the most hard working members and needs encouragement.

      My frequent request to members (more so to experts). Just give your opinion, if you have contradictory views back them up with appropriate evidence, ........but please don't pass judgement on others........This will keep the Group healthy and progressing.

    

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 

http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/  

[Gurcharan Singh]

Surajit ji

If it is between these two species you can easily decide from this::

Mallotus repandus: Climbing shrubs; stipules triangular, ca. 1 mm; petiole 1.5-6 cm; leaf blade 3.5-10 × 2.5-7 cm, papery, base broadly cuneate; male inflorescences terminal with branches few or absent; bracts subulate, ca. 1.5 mm. Male flowers 2-5-fascicled;female inflorescences 5-8 cm; bracts ca. 2 mm. sepals 2-3 mm; ovary 2- or 3-locular; Fruiting pedicel 8-12 mm; capsule yellowish-brownish tomentulose, scattered glandular-scaly.

Mallotus tetracoccus: Trees 5-15 m tall; stipules ovate-triangular, 1.5-3 mm; petiole 6-15 cm; leaf blade 10-25 × 9-20 cm, base obtuse or truncate; male inflorescences terminal, branched; bracts triangular, 1-1.5 mm; male flowers 3-9-fascicled; female inflorescences paniculate, 9-14 cm, tomentose; bracts 3-5 mm; sepals 3-4 mm; often 4-loculed; fruiting pedicel 5 mm long; capsule depressed globose, gray tomentose and densely shortly softly spiny, spines stellate-pubescent.

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[surajit koley]

Good morning Sir

I will try to check and scale stipules, leaves and other keys as soon as posible.

Thank you very much, i have noted down the keys.

Regards,

surajit

[surajit koley]

Sir,

I have recorded more pictures today. But, i am not sure of its stipules, attaching pictures herewith.

However, i give my explanation here, more elaborately -

"Bengal Plants" describes four Mallotus species - 1) M. roxburghianus Muell.-Arg. 2) M. albus Muell.-Arg. 3) M. repandus Muell.-Arg. 4) M. philippinensis Muell.-Arg.

Our group has M. philippinensis Muell.-Arg. - 

• https://groups.google.com/d/topic/indiantreepix/vSYzyaBjqGw/discussion
  
• https://groups.google.com/d/topic/indiantreepix/GvP06z-u4N8/discussion

Our group also has M. roxburghianus Muell.-Arg. -

• https://groups.google.com/d/topic/indiantreepix/BJyBMILYN9Q/discussion
  
• in FoC it is at - http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=109910&flora_id=2 (source - http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242331432)

"Bengal Plants" lists -

1) Mallotus repandus Muell.-Arg.; F. B. I. 5. 442. Rottlera dicocca F. I. iii. 829.

2) Mallotus albus Muell.-Arg.; F. B. I. v. 429. E. D. M. 66. Rottlera alba F. I. iii. 829. R. tetracocca F. I. iii. 826.

The above info can be found in - http://ia700604.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?id=mobot31753000237419&itemPath=%2F32%2Fitems%2Fmobot31753000237419&server=ia700604.us.archive.org&page=n290_w1150.jpg

Entry in F. I. iii. 829. reads -

1) R. dicocca R.

Scandent. Leaves round-cordate, alternate three nerved. Racemes terminal and axillary. Capsules dicoccus. ...... A native of various parts of India. It is a weak though large, sub-scandent shrub. Flowering time the hot season; the seed ripens in the rainy season.

2) R. alba R.

Arboreous. Leaves alternate, long-petioled, cordate, somewhat peltate, and slightly scollop-dentate, hoary underneath. Panicles terminal. Capsules villous, armed with villous filaments. A native of Prince of Wales' Island. It flowers in the Botanic garden during the rains and the beginning of the cool season.

The info can be seen at - http://ia600607.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?id=mobot31753000967882&itemPath=%2F18%2Fitems%2Fmobot31753000967882&server=ia600607.us.archive.org&page=n834_w1150.jpg

Entry in F. I. iii. 826. reads -

R. tetracocca R.

Young shoots ferruginous. Leaves long-petioled, cordate, rarely lobate, acuminate, hoary underneath. Panicle terminal. Capsules hoary, papillose, tetracoccus.... It flowers in April and May; and seeds ripen in August.

...... leaves alternate, long-petioled, cordate, tending to be peltate in young plants.... stipules minute ....Panicles terminal... composed of several simple branches......

More can be seen/read at - http://ia600607.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?id=mobot31753000967882&itemPath=%2F18%2Fitems%2Fmobot31753000967882&server=ia600607.us.archive.org&page=n831_w1150.jpg and http://ia600607.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?id=mobot31753000967882&itemPath=%2F18%2Fitems%2Fmobot31753000967882&server=ia600607.us.archive.org&page=n832_w1150.jpg.

In connection to above i searched and found leaves are similar to that of Mallotus tetracoccus of FoC, while flowering season matches with Rottlera alba R. and The Plant List equates it with Mallotus paniculatus var. paniculatus.

There is Mallotus paniculatus in FoC - http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200012592 and pictures of Mallotus paniculatus var. paniculatus can be found at - http://www.flickr.com/photos/mingiweng/3914991751/ and at - http://www.flickr.com/photos/mingiweng/3915745822/, if the claimed ID is correct in those flickr pics.

The leaf size in the attached pictures are not exhaustive, bigger and smaller leaves can also be found.

Nevertheless, i fully subscribe to experts' views.

Thank you,

Regards,

surajit

[Ushadi Micromini]

Gurcharan ji:

I find this following paragraph most intriguing and was wondering what prompted it?


==========

Surajit... chaliye jao... I am learning a lot of Botany just by reading your threads...
thank you

Usha di

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com> wrote:

Many of us may be experts in our own field, occupying high positions and treat people accordingly in our institution, but when we are joining such a forum, where more than ninety percent members may not understand a bit of botany, but have passion for photography and love for plants, we have to interact accordingly, keeping dignity of each member in mind.

    I may make a very wild guess, knowing well that I am doing this to keep the thread moving.......but if some one else tells me that you have made a wild guess.....perhaps not good for the health and progress of the group.

     I have seen phase of both spending days in herbaria around the world for more than 40 years, and just 5 years behind a DSLR camera and vast electronic information on the web, and frankly agree, I must have learnt 10 times more in these five years than I learnt about Flora of India and outside in last forty years.........All credit to well-knit family of efloraofindia, who love sharing information.

     I think there is no harm in consulting eflora of China, since it covers most of our Flora, is one of the very recent treatments, and a thorough one at that.....and more so since both species under consideration are discussed and keyed. It is also accessible to all. Perhaps Surajit ji will know the true identity, once it comes to fruit, or even earlier. He is our one of the most hard working members and needs encouragement.

      My frequent request to members (more so to experts). Just give your opinion, if you have contradictory views back them up with appropriate evidence, ........but please don't pass judgement on others........This will keep the Group healthy and progressing.

    

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 

http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/  

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 8:53 AM, surajit koley <surajitno...@gmail.com> wrote:

--
 
 
 

Usha di
January 5th 2012
==========
===============

[surajit koley]

compare it with - https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/AWLH9bQHKTI/VVJT8gxp9T4J

[surajit koley]

.... and with - https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/UmwRRK5iwoE/beArpoRgxAkJ