Shooting trip Morni- Carissa macrocarpa

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Nidhan Singh

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25-Apr-2011, 11:23:17 am25/04/11
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Dear All,
This shrub was flowering at cactus garden, Panchkula and was shot
during our recent plant shooting trip to Morni Hills. This is a large
shrub with white fragrant flowers. I suppose this to be Carissa
macrocarpa. Kindly validate.

Regards,

--
Dr. Nidhan Singh
Department of Botany
I.B. (PG) College
Panipat-132103 Haryana
Ph.: 09416371227

Carissa macrocarpa.JPG
Carissa macrocarpa (1).JPG
Carissa macrocarpa (2).JPG

Mahadeswara

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25-Apr-2011, 11:04:03 pm25/04/11
to efloraofindia
Thanks for sharing the beautiful photographs.
>  Carissa macrocarpa.JPG
> 65KViewDownload
>
>  Carissa macrocarpa (1).JPG
> 72KViewDownload
>
>  Carissa macrocarpa (2).JPG
> 90KViewDownload

Ushadi micromini

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26-Apr-2011, 8:21:37 am26/04/11
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Dear Nidhan ji: this shrub has peculiar thorn pattern, did you get to
photograph it?

related to karamda, and just like the karamda (in gujarati, koromcha
in Bengali) the fruits do get red, did you see any red fruits? though
these fruits are somewhat larger than culinary karamada.... has
multiple somewhat flat seeds inside. Did you get to photograph the
thorns, red fruit and or seeds inside...

This south african import has been a popular hedge shrub in Southern
california , esp because of the thorns, prevents unwanted intrusion by
man or beast, and the berries are edible to boot... local birds love
it...
Usha di




On Apr 25, 8:23 pm, Nidhan Singh <nidhansingh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Nidhan Singh

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26-Apr-2011, 8:58:54 am26/04/11
to Ushadi micromini, efloraofindia
Usha Ji,

I do not have any more photographs of this shrub, as desired by you,
but no red fruits were there (perhaps all fruits were unripe still). I
request Dr. Gurcharan Singh ji and Dr. Balkar ji to upload more pics
for thorn pattern if they have them.

Thanks,

Balkar Arya

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26-Apr-2011, 9:25:54 am26/04/11
to Nidhan Singh, Ushadi micromini, efloraofindia
Here are mines


--
Regards

Dr Balkar Singh
Head, Deptt. of Botany and Biotechnology
Arya P G College, Panipat
Haryana-132103
09416262964
tn_IMG_4048.JPG
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tn_IMG_4051.JPG
tn_IMG_4052.JPG
tn_IMG_4053.JPG
tn_IMG_4054.JPG
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Gurcharan Singh

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26-Apr-2011, 10:07:41 am26/04/11
to Balkar Arya, Nidhan Singh, Ushadi micromini, efloraofindia
Thanks Nidhan ji for keen observation and uploading this plant. I had quietly filed it as C. carandas.

Perhaps after reading the key in eFlora of China, there is no need to upload my photographs. First photograph of Nidhan ji and second of Balkar ji tell the whole story to identify it as C. macrocarpa.


1Corolla lobes overlapping to left, as long as or longer than tube  Carissa macrocarpa
+Corolla lobes overlapping to right, shorter than tube.  (2)
     
2 (1) Lateral veins of leaf blade ca. 8 pairs; corolla puberulent inside; fruit ellipsoid, 1.5-2.5 1-2 cm



-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 
 Carissa carandas

Gurcharan Singh

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26-Apr-2011, 10:20:13 am26/04/11
to Balkar Arya, Nidhan Singh, Ushadi micromini, efloraofindia
And yes, this also helped me to identify my plant from Film city LA, USA, which also I had quietly identified as C. carandas, but turned out to be C. macrocarpa.


The first two photographs from Delhi Are C. carandas but next 4 from L A as C. macrocarpa



-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

ushadi Micromini

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26-Apr-2011, 8:51:46 pm26/04/11
to Gurcharan Singh, Balkar Arya, Nidhan Singh, efloraofindia
Thank you Gurucharani, Nidhan ji, Balkarji:  thank you for responding....
since I am not a botanist nor a taxonomist... I rely on observing "every" possible feature that seems relevant... and am a serious subscriber to the edict of Liberty Hyde Bailey, co-founder of the American Society for Horticultural Science [ASHS],  that "an awareness and appreciation of plants began with salient visual encounters with plants and direct observation of their interesting attributes."

And so when I first encountered the white flowers of Carissa macrocarpa... i did not know what it was, but they were fragrant when first opening... that started my interest.. but I did not go any further,  a few weeks later I found  a red berry hiding in the leaves, trying to get to it to look my hand was scratched mercilessly ... first I thought I was bit by something...it was such an active scratch... which I now know to be the weird double thorns, that you have depicted well in your photo:

  Carissa-carandas-LA-4.jpg

in the link https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix/browse_thread/thread/31145e1ab206c491/11ab84bbbfe55caf?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=Carissa#11ab84bbbfe55caf

  and this sort of thorn pair does not occur in karambada// karamcha...

That year five years ago it took me several days to possibly identify my pink-violet-red fruit that once was a white flower, and its parent plant  was willing to bite me with forked thorns.... I filed my pictures originally as" Karamda relative"... about a week later I knew it was most likely Carissa macrocarpa....  from visual clues provided at various reliable sites on the net and google images....
I don't think I had known of flowers of India then... nor of eflora... now that I do,  I am learning by leaps and bound... and am photographing stuff all over.... but have to file them and then learn to downsize so they can be posted.... bear with me... I'll still learn the art... and do it...it would make our conversations more interesting.

thank you, Usha di


Gurcharan Singh

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26-Apr-2011, 9:48:36 pm26/04/11
to ushadi Micromini, Balkar Arya, Nidhan Singh, efloraofindia
Usha di
That is the beauty of the group. We botanists learn more from the experiences of members like you who have seen and observed these plants closely and have their own indicators of identifying them. We botanists try to find some reliable feature to complement this information. This plant was a perfect example of this synergy. When you mentioned about this plant growing in Southern California, I was immediately reminded of my Carissa plant from L A. After seeing the key in eFlora of China, perhaps there was no doubt in my mind. The overlapping of corolla lobes and importantly size relation of lobes and tube are something which can never be missed.
    Let us wish to continue this synergy, expand this to evolve more such occasions.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

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