Citron - Citrus medica | ID confirmation req 11JUNAR01

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raghu ananth

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Jul 11, 2009, 5:44:45 AM7/11/09
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Citron - Citrus medica. (Request to confirm the ID. )
Rough Lime, 
Local Name : Herale kai, Herale hannu (fruit)(Kannada), Nartanga (Tamil)
 
kavalau Katta, Unchalli falls, Uttara Kannada, Karnataka
Jun 2009
 
 
Tough to find this fruiting tree in villages these days. Very few people sell this fruit in the market. Is it because people prefer Lemon or Sweet lime ?
The juice of this fruit is considered good for some diseases and commonly used to prepare a dish called `yellow rice`.
 
Regards
Raghu Ananth
 
Order: Sapindales
Family: Rutaceae
Genus: Citrus
Species: C. medica
Order: Sapindales
Family: Rutaceae
Genus: Citrus
Species: C. medica


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DSC_2792_HeraleKai-Unchalli.jpg
DSC_2792_HeraleKai-Citron.jpg

Yazdy Palia

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Jul 11, 2009, 1:56:31 PM7/11/09
to raghu ananth, indian...@googlegroups.com
Hello folks,
I have a couple of these trees at my place at Wayanad and they produce
heavily every year in fact two crops a year. I use them for juice for
pickles . The mother of one of my friends prepares wonderful chutney
out of its leaves that could be preserved for months.
Regards
Yazdy.

Swagat

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Jul 16, 2009, 8:24:38 AM7/16/09
to Yazdy Palia, raghu ananth, indian...@googlegroups.com
Dear all,
 
'Citrus medica'  is called 'Mahallung'  'महाळुंग' in Marathi and 'Beejpurak' 'बीजपूरक' in Sanskrit.
 
Regards,
 
~Swagat
9223217568
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

2009/7/11 Yazdy Palia <yazdy...@gmail.com>
--
'I am only one; but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something; I will not refuse to do the something I can do.' - Helen Keller

Dinesh Valke

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Jul 16, 2009, 12:30:08 PM7/16/09
to Swagat, indian...@googlegroups.com
... many thanks, Swagat.
 
Here are some of what I have gathered from internet -- commonly known as: citron • Assamese: jora tenga • Bengali: জম্বির jambira, টাবা taba • Gujarati: તુરંજ turanj • Hindi: बड़ा नीबु bara nibu, बिजौरा bijaura, पूरक purak, तुरन्ज turanj, वेतस vetas • Kannada: ಮಾದಳ maadala • Konkani: मौळिंग mauling • Malayalam: ചെറുനാരകം cerunaarakam • Manipuri: হৈজাঙ heijang • Marathi: महाळुंग mahalunga • Sanskrit:  महाफल mahaphala, मातुलुङ्ग matulunga, पूरक puraka • Tamil: எலுமிச்சை elumiccai, கொம்மட்டிமாதுளை kommatti-matulai • Telugu: మాతులుంగము matulungamu
 
 
Regards.

Swagat

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Jul 20, 2009, 6:21:20 AM7/20/09
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Dineshji,
 
You have really great collection...
 
Here are some more names in Sanskrit for 'Citrus medica' ... रुचक Ruchak, लुंग Lung, अम्‍लकेसर Amlakesar, सुमनःफल Suman:phal, बीजाण्‍ड Beejand.
 
Regards,
~Swagat
9223217568
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2009/7/16 Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com>

Dinesh Valke

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Jul 24, 2009, 12:33:30 PM7/24/09
to indian...@googlegroups.com, Swagat
I believe fruit of C. medica to be oblongish, or could even be of irregular (and strange) shape, rarely (¿ or never ?) spherical.
 
Friends, I went on to put common names of C. medica in this post, and so has Swagat ji.
However, Raghu ji's query for confirming ID in his post is yet pending ... please comment.
 
Regards.
 
 
 


 
2009/7/16 Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com>

--
Dinesh




Dinesh Valke

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Jul 24, 2009, 2:17:47 PM7/24/09
to Indian Tree Pix
Double-forwarding message.
 
Thank you very much Raghu ji and Kunhikannan ji for ruling out C. medica.
Friends, the ID still pends.
 
Regards.
 
 
 
 
 
 
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: raghu ananth <ragh...@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:02 PM
Subject: Fw: [indiantreepix:14461] Citron - Citrus medica | ID confirmation req 11JUNAR01
To: dinesh...@gmail.com


Fwd msg from C KUNHIKANNAN
 
Regards
Raghu

From: C KUNHIKANNAN <kunhi...@gmail.com>
To: raghu ananth <ragh...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, 23 July, 2009 7:50:35 PM
Subject: Re: [indiantreepix:14461] Citron - Citrus medica | ID confirmation req 11JUNAR01

dear reghu,
What is given in the photos are  not the Citrus medica,
Citrus medica fruits are big, elongated with blunt pointed tip, weigh more than a kg, usually used in pooja in south india especially in Ganapathi pojja, thus its name in malayalam as Ganapathi Naragam
kunhikannan
 

On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 3:14 PM, raghu ananth <ragh...@yahoo.com> wrote:
--
Dr. C.Kunhikannan,
Division of Biodiversity,
Institute of Forest Genetics and Tree Breeding,
Forest Campus,  R.S.Puram,
Coimbatore-641002, Tamilnadu.


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Dinesh Valke

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Aug 7, 2009, 10:16:42 AM8/7/09
to Indian Tree Pix, Padmanabhan Geetha
... re-surfacing this ID request.
I do not think this to be Citrus medica.
 
Could it be some variety or subspecies of Citrus aurantium ?
Geetha ji's firm belief that it is known by the name narthangai in Tamil, led me to a WIKI page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_orange
 
Please comment.
Regards.
 
 
 


 
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: raghu ananth <ragh...@yahoo.com>
DSC_2792_HeraleKai-Unchalli.jpg
DSC_2792_HeraleKai-Citron.jpg

Yazdy Palia

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Aug 7, 2009, 11:21:45 AM8/7/09
to Dinesh Valke, Indian Tree Pix, Padmanabhan Geetha
Hello friends,
The picture in Mr. Raghu Ananth's mail is different from what I know
as bitter Orange. Bitter orange normally has very rough rind. It is
not smooth externally. Moreover it is much smaller than the citron
shown in Mr. Ananths picture which is quite tender. It becomes much
bigger as it matures. The leaves of the bitter orange are much
smaller. I can not imagine somebody calling a fruit that is more than
double the size of orange as bitter orange. However, it is only the
thought of a novice.
Regards
Yazdy Palia.


On 8/7/09, Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ... re-surfacing this ID request.
> I do not think this to be *Citrus medica.*
>
> Could it be some variety or subspecies of *Citrus aurantium* ?
> Geetha ji's firm belief that it is known by the name *narthangai* in Tamil,
> led me to a WIKI page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_orange
>
> Please comment.
> Regards.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: raghu ananth <ragh...@yahoo.com>
> Date: Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 3:14 PM
> Subject: [indiantreepix:14461] Citron - Citrus medica | ID confirmation req
> 11JUNAR01
> To: indian...@googlegroups.com
>
>
> *Citron - Citrus medica. (Request to confirm the ID. )*
> *Rough Lime, *
> *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citron* <http://en..wikipedia.org/wiki/Citron>
> *Local Name : Herale kai, Herale hannu (fruit)(Kannada), Nartanga (Tamil)*
> **
> *kavalau Katta, Unchalli falls, Uttara Kannada, Karnataka*
> *Jun 2009*
> **
> **
> *Tough to find this fruiting tree in villages these days. Very few people
> sell this fruit in the market. Is it because people prefer Lemon or Sweet
> lime ?*
> *The juice of this fruit is considered good for some diseases and commonly
> used to prepare a dish called `yellow rice`.*
> **
> *Regards*
> *Raghu Ananth*
> **
> Order: Sapindales <http://wiki/Sapindales>
> Family: Rutaceae <http://wiki/Rutaceae>
> Genus: *Citrus <http://wiki/Citrus>*
> Species: *C. medica*
> Order: Sapindales <http://wiki/Sapindales>
> Family: Rutaceae <http://wiki/Rutaceae>
> Genus: *Citrus <http://wiki/Citrus>*
> Species: *C. medica*
>
> ------------------------------
> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo!
> Buzz <http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_buzz_1/*http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/>.
>
> >
>

Gurcharan Singh-sify

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Aug 7, 2009, 11:42:19 AM8/7/09
to Dinesh Valke, Indian Tree Pix, Padmanabhan Geetha
Petiolar wings are too wide for C. medica, where they hardy visible. Toss is between C. maximum (syn: C. grandis: midrib and veins pubescent; pulp vesicles loosely packed; seeds ridged) and C. paradisii (midrib and veins glabrous; pulp vesicles tightly packed; seeds smooth)
 
Gurcharan Singh

Padmanabhan Geetha

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Aug 9, 2009, 12:36:31 AM8/9/09
to Dinesh Valke, Indian Tree Pix
Dinesh ji
Thank you for persisting with the Citrus. I am thanking you more so because your queries made me look at the narthangai plant again (A lesson in observation!) and I noticed that it  had thorns.Something that the photo posted by Mr. Raghu Ananth does not show. Again i do not know if  the plant he has photographed is/could be a hybrid variety. These days several varieties of plants  that originally had thorns are produced minus these natural protectors!

 I am attaching with this mail a photo of the narthangai plant growing in my garden. Too early for it to fruit, so only leaves and branches are seen  in the photo.This much i can vouch for - it is narthangai plant. It was grown from the seeds of the fruit.

 Which species of Citrus it is  I do not know.
 I do hope that this  helps
best wishes
geetha
Narthangai.jpg

Gurcharan Singh-sify

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Aug 9, 2009, 1:09:28 AM8/9/09
to Padmanabhan Geetha, Dinesh Valke, Indian Tree Pix
After seeing the photograph shot by  Geetha I had a second look at Citrus species and am inclined to identify it with C. hystrix DC. This species has winged petiole more than half as long as leaf blade and crenulate leaves, fruit 5-7 cm.
 
Gurcharan Singh

Gurcharan Singh-sify

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Aug 9, 2009, 1:30:33 AM8/9/09
to Padmanabhan Geetha, Dinesh Valke, Indian Tree Pix
The pictures sent originally by Raghu Ananth are a different species with winged petiole shorter than leaf length, not C. medica but possibly C. maxima or related species.
 
Gurcharan Singh 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 10:06 AM

Gurcharan Singh-sify

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Aug 9, 2009, 2:00:24 AM8/9/09
to Padmanabhan Geetha, Dinesh Valke, Indian Tree Pix
Here are my photographs of C. medica. Pl notice the petiole wings, a very important character in this genus.
 
Gurcharan Singh
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 10:06 AM
Citrus-medica-.jpg
Citrus-medica-2.jpg

Yazdy Palia

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Aug 9, 2009, 2:09:31 AM8/9/09
to Gurcharan Singh-sify, Padmanabhan Geetha, Dinesh Valke, Indian Tree Pix
Dear Friends,
With all due respects to all the experts. I have just returned from
the citron tree after going through your response. I found that the
tender branches are having the winged petiole, some of them large,
some of them short and some of the leaves (normally matured) do not
even have the winged petiole on the same plant. I observe that the
fresh shoots (the second picture) has winged petioles that are large
and the slightly mature stems have the petiole that are short, the
fully mature stem do not have winged petiole at all. All these are
from one tree.
Incidentally adjacent to the citron tree, we have a regular orange
plant and even on it the winged petioles are found on the tender
shoots.
I must thank all you people for having ignited the desire in me to
study plants more closely. I still have a lot to learn.
Regards
Yazdy.

Padmanabhan Geetha

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Aug 9, 2009, 9:07:25 AM8/9/09
to Gurcharan Singh-sify, Dinesh Valke, Indian Tree Pix
Dear friends

The  Wikipedia gives the Tamil name for C.hystirx as kolumichai ('கொலுமிச்சை') in tamil.
Some people call kolumichai as  kadarangai, but i am not sure whether they mean the same plant.

In one of the issues of Current Science i discovered that C medica  is called Kadarangai

Kadarangai is a fairly big tree.I am familiar with this tree too as it grew in my parent's house at Chennai. It's fruits are large, much bigger than that of narthangai. The fruits are green initially and then turn yellow. It was often pickled in the same way as the sour lime எலுமிச்சை elumiccai.

This was the information in Current Science the journal from IISc Banglore ( ref : http://www.ias.ac.in/jarch/currsci/43/00000288.pdf)
C aurantifolia - Lime
C reticulata  -   Kamla orange
C sinensis  -    Orange
C limettioides - Kolunji
C medica      - Kadarangai

Some more searches and readings reveal that the common  varieties of citrus fruits that we use today were all classified initially as  C medica; for eg Citrus aurantiifolia, used to be Citrus medica var. acida

Thus i think that some of these changes have perhaps not  been incoporated in all texts ( esp what  we get from the net) and therefore  a lot of confusion. I remember reading Aparnaji's mail several months ago where she warned us that  identification would not always be possible from photos unless we have several details of  the plants. Gurcharanji's pointers about characteristics of the winged petiole is an eg of Aparnaji's alert

I guess there fore that C medica could be a name given to narthanga, kadaranga, elumiccai and  would probably not be wrong in a general sense.

Of course my conclusions are general and  please feel free to correct me where ever needed.


best wishes
geetha

Gurcharan Singh

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Aug 9, 2009, 9:27:17 AM8/9/09
to Padmanabhan Geetha, Dinesh Valke, Indian Tree Pix
Perhaps Citrus is one of the genera with lot of taxonomic confusions, equally so in common names. What we commonly call as oranges (santara) is Mandarine (R. reticulata) for western world and what we know as Mousambi or Malta are oranges for West (C. sinensis). Spines  on young shoots, presence and size of petiole wings, size of petals, size of fruit, colour, thickness of rind, and how easily it can be peeled off, numberof  fruit segments and colour of seed leaves (cotyledons) are features helpful in identification. A note of these together with photographs should be help a lot..
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