Tree id request

[Debjit Mukherjee]

Date/Time- Jun 17 2018

 

Location- Place, Altitude, GPS- Victoria memorial, Kolkata

 

Habitat- Garden/ Urban/ Wild/ Type-Urban

 

Plant Habit- Tree/ Shrub/ Climber/ Herb- Tree

 

Height/Length- 40 Feet

 

Leaves Type/ Shape/ Size- Large (

10-20 cm) like Jatropa curcus

 

Inflorescence Type/ Size- Not sure

 

Flowers Size/ Colour/ Calyx/ Bracts-

 

Fruits Type/ Shape/ Size Seeds- Not sure

 

Other Information like Fragrance, Pollinator, Uses etc.- Not Sure

[Ushadi Micromini]

Do you have photographs df the undersurface of the leaves ?

I want to say tis is Pterospermum acerifolium 

ie Kanak champ

but would like to see a few more details of the leaves

and later in the season (like in aufust) the flowers.

there is some write up on our page about the leaves being peltate and orbicular

but the case we have shows wide variation in that characteristic

Most of the tree in victoria memorial have a small metal plate with a number etched, 

did you see one on this tree?

usha di

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Usha di
===========

[Mahadeswara]

Doubtful Id.  Looks different Ushadi ji.

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Usha di
===========

[Ushadi Micromini]

I agree

the leaves and their grouping, insertion of the petiole all had me worried

Debjit

i was not asking for the name label, i know they have a problem

i was just asking for a number plate its about 3 inches by three inches

mostly because it seems there is a lot of cutting down of tree going on in the background

wanted to know if you saw any number on this tree

this tree has me worried, it seems it may go on the chopping block soon

thats all

usha di 

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Usha di
===========

[Ushadi Micromini]

only other possibility can think of is

a tree called 

Berrya cordifolia var. mollis.

These is one in Shibpur botanical garden.

ANd Bentihill says there was one near Tollyclub main gate and what is now the exide mor...???

usha dfi

ps internet including our website is not much help in that that  nobody includes great pictures of the leaves and bark.

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Usha di
===========

[Ushadi Micromini]

forwarding to Tapasda

he would know

and if he does not, he would know who does

so Tapasda, here we  are, please help

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=1e351b0ce4&view=att&th=16450e04c2004cd9&attid=0.1&disp=safe&realattid=1604695532590071808-local0&zw

thanks

Usha di 

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Usha di
===========

[Ushadi Micromini]

Tapasda

any news on this tree?

awaiting your opinion

thanks

usha di

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Usha di
===========

[Tapas Chakrabarty]

Difficult to say. Kleinhovia hospita comes to mind without flowers and fruits.

Usha di 

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Usha di
===========

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Usha di
===========

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Usha di
===========

[Mahadeswara]

Quite possible sir.  

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Tapas ji, Ushadi and Mahadeswara ji

[Ushadi Micromini]

yes Kleihovia ia what i entertained first 

but the leaves did not seem to be of the right size though

thanks Tapas da.

usha di

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Usha di
===========

[Tapas Chakrabarty]

Yes Ushadi, not Kleinhovia at all. The photographer is requested to take photo of flowers.

[Dinesh Valke]

Possibility of any Sterculia (even Firmiana)?

Regards.

Dinesh

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Usha di
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[Ushadi Micromini]

Dinesh

you may be onto something

the feature here that was very evident was the crowding of the leaves at the very end of the branches

that seems to be point we need to do the differential diagnosis

well onto research

usha di

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Usha di
===========

[J.M. Garg]

Another guess is Cochlospermum religiosum (L.) Alston 

[J.M. Garg]

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: M Swamy <swamy...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed 18 Jul, 2018, 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:299550] Tree id request
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

Garg ji . I compared the phtographs of  Cochlospermum religiosum  taken by me  in Mysore.  They  are different.

[J.M. Garg]

Can Jatropha curcus attain such height and tree like structure? 

--

[Ushadi Micromini]

no

it seems

i have searched long 

and hard

nothing to be had on the internet

but never say never

---

looking closely at the picture above...

there is a metal plate like something

may be a second visit by debjit will get us a number 

with that number we could ask the memorial staff!

usha di

On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 9:03 PM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Can Jatropha curcus attain such height and tree like structure? 

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Debjit Mukherjee <demu...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat 30 Jun, 2018, 6:57 PM
Subject: [efloraofindia:298612] Tree id request
To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>

Date/Time- Jun 17 2018

 

Location- Place, Altitude, GPS- Victoria memorial, Kolkata

 

Habitat- Garden/ Urban/ Wild/ Type-Urban

 

Plant Habit- Tree/ Shrub/ Climber/ Herb- Tree

 

Height/Length- 40 Feet

 

Leaves Type/ Shape/ Size- Large (

10-20 cm) like Jatropa curcus

 

Inflorescence Type/ Size- Not sure

 

Flowers Size/ Colour/ Calyx/ Bracts-

 

Fruits Type/ Shape/ Size Seeds- Not sure

 

Other Information like Fragrance, Pollinator, Uses etc.- Not Sure

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Usha di
===========

[M Swamy]

No.  Nevertheless, it grows up to 10 feet as observed in Mysore where it is found in wastelands. Anyway the photograph does not look like J. c.  It is different according to me. 

[Santhan P]

It is Gyrocarpus americanus (hernandiaceae), soft tree,frequently found in the dry foot hill areas. 

[Ushadi Micromini]

that would make it the helixcopter tree

1: gargji"s picture of that tree is in flowers of india site

the leaves dont match

https://www.flowersofindia.net/catalog/slides/Helicopter%20Tree.html

but his case on efloraindia shows many pictures

and the leaves indeed are bunching up at the tip of the branches 

although they are simple in outline  not like jatropha leaves

2:on our own page for 

Gyrocarpus americanus

https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/a---l/h/hernandiaceae/gyrocarpus/gyrocarpus-americanus

the few cases we have shows a wide range of leaves sizes and outlines

and there had always been a chaos and discussions of differential diagnosis based only on leaves.

===

we  have the same problem here we only have leaves shape and the fact that they are bunching up at the end of branches.

we need flowers and or seeds.

==

i would not wish this to be the final say

nor would i like to mark this case as complete 

(because i find that no further discussions are possible ) (

one can only write to the last person on the thread before it was marked complete.)

usha di 

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Usha di
===========

[Mahadeswara]

I agree with Ushadi ji.  The issue is confused now.   Does the tree  has  different  shapes of leaves.  

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Usha di
===========

[Ponnutheerthagiri Santhan]

No confusion sir, it will have entire to 3 - lobed leaves.

Thanks &regards

Dr. Santhan P

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[J.M. Garg]

[Mahadeswara]

Thanks Santhan ji for the valuable information.

[Ushadi Micromini]

i second Mahadeswara's sentiments

and thank Santhan.

but i hold an open  mind about the final diagnosis

need to find more data, leaf pictures showing diverse outlines

or descriptions or herbarium sheets of various leaves.

its by no means a closed or completed case

usha di

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Usha di
===========

[Pardeshi S.]

Dear All,

to me it is Firmiana sps. also looks closer to Dombeya sps.

Regards

Satish Pardeshi

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Satish ji.

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2975 members & 2,90,000 messages on 31.3.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 12,000 species & 3,00,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

[Ushadi Micromini]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Debjit Mukherjee <demu...@gmail.com>

Date: Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:298612] Tree id request
To: Ushadi Micromini <micromi...@gmail.com>

Thanks usha di. I do not think it is Kanak Champa as I am very familiar with it. In fact I have one at home. Kanak Champa usually blooms in March(attaching a photo taken on 17-March this year). Also I did not find any plate but I'll look for it again when I visit next.

Honestly, the name plates are not that authentic. I have found many tress are wrongly labelled in Dhakuria and even in Victoria.

Regards,

Debjit

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=1e351b0ce4&view=att&th=1645502d4adf6739&attid=0.1&disp=safe&realattid=f_jj2l7sei0&zw

[Ushadi Micromini]

Thank you Satish . Your input means a lot to us.

OK 

now we are getting somewhere

all the viable choices we have so far seem to  point to a member of malvaceae family

Dr Pardeshi: Dombeya sp family malvaceae shows  four species  in our list 

                     Firmiana sp is of family Malvaceae shows two species  in our list 

DR Desai :    Berrya sp is of family Malvaceae   shows two species on our list

Tapasda, USha di, have considered are Kleinhovia is also of Malvaceae family.

Usha di thought it was Pterospermum ... Debjit said its not because he has one himself, and this is not it.

Gargji suggested could it be:  Cochlospermum religiosum of  family 

Bixaceae

but Usha di says its not, because she had one and its not at all similar .

and Santhan ji said it is  Gyrocarpus americanus  of family Hernandiaceae

and he says three types of leaves can be seen in this tree

although what we see on the net and what we have here are not matching. 

Oiginal question was could it be related to could it be  Jatropha curcas of euphorbiaceae family

Interesting 

gives us options to think about and search

usha di 

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Usha di
===========

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Ushadi for detailed analysis. 

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Usha di
===========

[Debjit Mukherjee]

Firmiana colorata?

[J.M. Garg]

Pl. check details and images at Firmiana colorata

Firmiana colorata?

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 2975 members & 3,00,000 messages on 25.7.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 12,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which 1,00,000 are directly displayed).

[Ushadi Micromini]

Just the leaf details is the problem sometimes

thats the case here it seems

Mohina has shown a case that is almost at the bottom of the page 

and her pic of the leaves is very different from Debjit's leaves

and Dr. NEIL Soares  had shown tree base in her case

May be Neil can look at the original pictures sent by Debjit

I think he would know 

Neil can you please look see?

thanks

usha di

Usha di
===========

[Gurcharan Singh]

Forwarding for ID

Distributed as Malvaceae member- Victoria memorial, Kolkata

Group discussion at

Tree id request (google.com)

Firmiana colorata?

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 2975 members & 3,00,000 messages on 25.7.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 12,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which 1,00,000 are directly displayed).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

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Usha di
===========

[Gurcharan Singh]

Forwarding for ID

Distributed as Malvaceae member- Victoria memorial, Kolkata

Group discussion at

Tree id request (google.com)

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: demu...@gmail.com <demu...@gmail.com>
Date: Saturday, June 30, 2018 at 6:57:15 PM UTC+5:30
Subject: Tree id request
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

[Debjit Mukherjee]

Firmiana colorata

I revisited the tree a few weeks back and found the flowers. 

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Debjit ji

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[Saroj Kasaju]

Yes !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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[Gurcharan Singh]

Thanks Debjit ji.

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.

https://www.gurcharanfamily.com/

[Paradesi Anjaneyulu]

I too agree with Debjit Ji,

With regards. 

Sender notified by Mailtrack 04/18/21, 05:11:07 AM

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