Large Leaf tree Sapling Is it Tectona Grandis? UD 8212011 002

[ushadi Micromini]

Dear All:

On 14th August zipping by on this street on the way to post office I noticed these humongous leaves...
thought it might be Tectona Grandis....
Next day went back and took pictures and talked to the local folks who run tea stalls and some Bhujia shops on the sidewalk (only  they were around to talk to ) , one of the guys said it grew very fast... this height see figure 1, was achieved in just 3 months....  some branches had come out near the ground which he said he cut them  off...  some others said it was a kadam gachh (gachh = tree in bengali) ...
sure!!!  dont beleive it!!!


The leaves are very large... 1.5 feet wide by 2.5 feet long... I measured it... see figures 2 and 3...  to me the leaf shape just does not match what I remember as tectona grandis.... am confused...

I rubbed the leaf underside, even wetted it with saliva..and rubbed ... no red color developed... see figure 6, the white arrows surround the wetted rubbed surface, you can still see a little shine?...   of cource its the lower leaf ... not the uppermost "young leaf"... but in the past no matter which leaf I tested on already identified Teconia grandis, I got the red color, in Bengal, Gujarat, Bihar and even in USA.. at a botanical Garden ...

Currently there are no branches...

The tree came up on its own.. in harsh broken stony fragments containing soil... see figure..7.

Date/Time-   8/15/2011

Location- Place, Altitude, GPS-  Sea level or slightly below it, Ganges plain , Streets of Kolkata,.

Habitat- Garden/ Urban/ Wild/ Type-  came up on its own per local history

Plant Habit- Tree/ Shrub/ Climber/ Herb-   Tree

Height/Length- Sapling about 10 feet or 11 feet

Leaves Type/ Shape/ Size-  very large, 2.5 by 1.5 foot ( foot, not inches)

Inflorescence Type/ Size- NONE  yet

Flowers Size/ Colour/ Calyx/ Bracts-  NA

Fruits Type/ Shape/ Size Seeds-NA

Other Information like Fragrance, Pollinator, Uses etc.- NA

NA= not applicable

Please help.....

Thank you

Usha di

===

 

[Neil Soares]

Hi,  Negative. This is Kadam [Neolamarckia cadamba].                      Regards,                        Neil Soares. --- On Sun, 8/21/11, ushadi Micromini <micromi...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Ushadi micromini]

Dear Neil, with such large leaves...
there is a kadam tree here, leaves are about 6,7,or 8 inches long at
the most...
but this one has 30 inches long leaves???

Usha di
====

On Aug 21, 9:22 pm, Neil Soares <drneilsoa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>  Negative. This is Kadam [Neolamarckia cadamba].
>                      Regards,
>                        Neil Soares.
>

> --- On Sun, 8/21/11, ushadi Micromini <microminipho...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Neil Soares]

Hi,  Have encountered such variations. Please go and check the tree again.                          Regards,                            Neil Soares. --- On Sun, 8/21/11, Ushadi micromini <micromi...@gmail.com> wrote:

[ushadi Micromini]

Dear Neil: I have a great deal of respect for your diagnostic abilities...

and I had indeed  doubts about my suspected idea... because of the leaf shape, color and NO redness when rubbed......

BUT .... the size of the leaves throws me..still..

AND I took the pictures on 15th August... nothing would have changed in these 6 says...
But yes I will go back in a months time and take more pictures... and I'll repeat it till is fully grown...over the years...  would be a nice project...

This may be an interesting fact ...in the life history of Kadam... may be saplings'  first leaves are humongous to manufacture as much food as quickly as possible and grow fast.... till its higher  // closer to the sun...   this sapling apprantly grew sooo tall in the span of three months...

May be we need a section of "Pediatric Biology " in Botany... growth patterns and anatomy of saplings... which may be very different than the mature tree.... ha ha  ..

Usha di
===

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for Id confirmation or otherwise please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

“Negative. This is Kadam [Neolamarckia cadamba].
                     Regards,
                       Neil Soares.”              

                

“Dear Neil, with such large leaves...

there is a kadam tree here, leaves are about 6,7,or 8 inches long at the most...
but this one has 30 inches long leaves???

Usha di
====”

 

" Have encountered such variations. Please go and check the tree again.
                         Regards,
                           Neil Soares."

 

"Dear Neil: I have a great deal of respect for your diagnostic abilities...

and I had indeed  doubts about my suspected idea... because of the leaf shape, color and NO redness when rubbed......

BUT .... the size of the leaves throws me..still..

AND I took the pictures on 15th August... nothing would have changed in these 6 says...
But yes I will go back in a months time and take more pictures... and I'll repeat it till is fully grown...over the years...  would be a nice project...

This may be an interesting fact ...in the life history of Kadam... may be saplings'  first leaves are humongous to manufacture as much food as quickly as possible and grow fast.... till its higher  // closer to the sun...   this sapling apprantly grew sooo tall in the span of three months...

May be we need a section of "Pediatric Biology " in Botany... growth patterns and anatomy of saplings... which may be very different than the mature tree.... ha ha  ..

Usha di
==="

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: ushadi Micromini <micromi...@gmail.com>
Date: 21 August 2011 21:21
Subject: [efloraofindia:77843] Large Leaf tree Sapling Is it Tectona Grandis? UD 8212011 002
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg (jmg...@gmail.com)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg. You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group: http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix (more than 1740 members & 90,000 messages on 31/10/11) or Efloraofindia website: https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/ (with a species database of more than 6000 species).

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'. 

[H S]

yes, Neolamarckia cadamba

regards,

--

 - H.S.

A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a mere heart of stone

[ushadi Micromini]

Dear Mr. Garg and All:  

I am not convinced its THE KADAMBA tree with a normal Genetic code.....
I personally think it may have be a genetic  malformation of it..

UPDATE... about month after these pictures were taken... the leaves became brown,  withered and drooped down, didn't have a camera  so no pics ... and next day when I went back to take pictures the KMC folks had cut down the tree  so no pics... I have meant to update this thread...

I wish I had stopped and taken samples from the stem to preserve for genetic analysis....   but I was too much of a rush and had  no camera with me...   and next day I was so much shocked that I did not go near the stump... I should have and taken a piece then... but  I learned a lesson...  In future I will act better than be a silent spectator and grieve at the death of a promising life form... 

GOING BACK TO KADAMBA trees...  see my detailed pictures above...

This sapling had two feet long and almost 18 inches wide leaf... never seen something like that...in a kadamba...

Although the leaf size seems to be quite variable...  in Kadamba trees in Kolkata...

I  find that that the ones with flowers have the smallest leaves (5-6 ")  of all Kadambas I see on streets of Kolkata, the flowerless "kadamba" trees have somewhat larger ( up to 9" ) darker leaves...
different species????

===

If this sapling was a kadamba... spontaneous dying off was perhaps  akin to a deformed human (or any mammalian) foetus aborting itself due to genetic malformations or genetic chemical variability so much so that the survival of the newborn life would be unsustainable...   since mother nature repeats pattenrs and processes ... its the only explanation I can think of that makes sense to me...

other reason could be environmental.. that the pavement where it was growing could not have sustained  it...


GARG JI : If its filed under kadamba in our website... it should have a note that it was most likely  a genetic malformation and similar sapling(s) when discovered  would need genetic studies...
Thanks ...
Usha di

PS I dont doubt Neil and HS's diagnosis , but am bothered by the uniqueness of its leaf size.. and I thank you both for your help...

if it was not planted as the locals claimed that it was spontaneous sprouting...   then the seeds from the mother tree where it flew out from must have also sprouted in the neighborhood...   I have crisscrossed the street and gone to every park .. and green grass patch in about a 8 - 10 block area.. have not seen a single  kadamba sapling, let alone a one with such large leaves...
=====

[Gurcharan Singh]

Forwarding again for ID

Distributed as  Neolamarckia cadamba ? 

Group discussion at

  Large Leaf tree Sapling Is it Tectona Grandis? UD 8212011 002 (google.com)  

[Chennuru Nagendra]

Anthocephalus cadamba

On Wednesday, January 13, 2021, Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com> wrote:

Forwarding again for ID

Distributed as  Neolamarckia cadamba ? 

Group discussion at

  Large Leaf tree Sapling Is it Tectona Grandis? UD 8212011 002 (google.com)  

On Sunday, November 13, 2011 at 6:24:27 PM UTC+5:30 Ushadi wrote:

Dear Mr. Garg and All:  

I am not convinced its THE KADAMBA tree with a normal Genetic code.....
I personally think it may have be a genetic  malformation of it..

UPDATE... about month after these pictures were taken... the leaves became brown,  withered and drooped down, didn't have a camera  so no pics ... and next day when I went back to take pictures the KMC folks hd cut down the tree  so no pics... I have meant to update this thread...

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/48124253-1383-45eb-ba09-65bc55290be4n%40googlegroups.com.

[Gurcharan Singh]

Thanks Nagendra ji

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Mob: 9810359089

https://www.gurcharanfamily.com/

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/48124253-1383-45eb-ba09-65bc55290be4n%40googlegroups.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/indiantreepix/Z0iMJOtguWQ/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/CAOwrfLPrbUg%3DotA24YfCr7cerVZ5q79e1wkdnY%3DnV-5cZrxiJQ%40mail.gmail.com.