Stone seed (Lithospermum arvense(L.)) from Srinagar

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taffa...@gmail.com

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Dec 22, 2022, 3:52:29 AM12/22/22
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Dear Members,
Am posting photos of a herb of the forget -me- not  (borage)family which I think is Lithospermum arvense(L.) Syn Buglossoides arvensis (L)  a.k.a  stone seed, field gromwel , corn gromwel . I request confirmation of I.D. The  herb was growing in a field in Srinagar and the photos were taken a few days back. It is a rather uncommon weed. It is very hairy(see photos) .It has tiny white flowers .The fruit has four brown nutlets (schizocarps) . The nutlets are triangular ovoid and with small tubercles(See photo).According to Wikipedia its seeds stored in clay pots have been found in sites dating back to 4000 B.C. Because of the high level of Omega-3 fatty acids in its seeds its commercial cultivation has been started in U.K.  it is patented  and has trade marked cultivar (Ahiflower)(A plant native to this region is finding great interest in E.U. and U.S. while most people here are unaware of its existence!). According to the Flora of China its roots yield a purple dye.
With regards
Taffazull
PLANT2 SCALE inmm.JPG
INFLORESCENCE2.JPG
CALYXENCLOSINGFRUIT.JPG
1Stigma4Nutlets.JPG
PLANT1 SCALE inmm.JPG
FRUITS2.JPG
FLOWER.JPG
ENLARGED FRUIT.JPG
PLANT.JPG
INFLORESCENCE.JPG

taffa...@gmail.com

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Dec 22, 2022, 5:02:23 AM12/22/22
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The info about roots yeilding a purple dye in the above post is not from Flora Of China.
It is from elsewhere .
I regret giving the wrong reference.
Regards
Taffazull

J.M. Garg

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Dec 22, 2022, 5:31:59 AM12/22/22
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taffa...@gmail.com

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Dec 22, 2022, 5:41:31 AM12/22/22
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Dear Garg ji
Thanks for giving the correct I.D.
With sincere regards
Taffazull

taffa...@gmail.com

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Dec 22, 2022, 9:34:05 AM12/22/22
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With reference to N.edgeworthii  till Oct 1971 it was reported only from Jammu from Northwest India and Kashmir(SMA Kazimi : A Revision Of The Boraginaceae of West Pakistan And Kashmir(1971), Journal of Arnold Arboretum,p675.). Jammu has a climate and topography very similar to Haryana from where also it was later reported as per your link.Thus I think my post would perhaps be the first report of its presence in the valley if the ID is correct.Would specially like Gurcharan ji's opinion as he is an expert on the flora of the valley.
Regards
Taffazull

On Thursday, December 22, 2022 at 4:01:59 PM UTC+5:30 JM Garg wrote:

taffa...@gmail.com

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Dec 24, 2022, 9:30:09 AM12/24/22
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Would like to add the following info regarding the plant:
1. The above mentioned reference (S.M,A.Kazimi (1971)) and the Flora of Pakistan both describe N.edgeworthii  DC. as Annual .Lithospermum arvense L.  is also an annual.
2.In Kashmir annuals die with the first frost in late November or early December. This plant is clearly alive and kicking with the New Year just days away. So it can only be a Biennial or a Perennial.
3. To confirm I transferred it from the field to a planter so as to observe it  in  future. If it survives the transfer then with time it will be clear if it is a biennial or a perennial. In any case it can not be an annual with the New Year just days away. While transferring it I noticed that it had a thick tap root like a carrot (see photo). Since annuals do not need to store food this confirms that it must be either a biennial or a perennial.
4. The above facts show that it can not be either N.edgeworthii  DC  or L.arvense  L. Then what is it? Is it some species endemic to the valley? I would request the members to opine on the same

ROOT1.jpg
IN PLANTER.jpg
ROOT2.jpg
ROOTR3.jpg

J.M. Garg

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Dec 24, 2022, 10:42:12 AM12/24/22
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Thanks, Taffazull ji.
Pl. see GBIF specimen, to which it appears close. BSI Flora of india gives its distribution in J&K and Punjab. 
Another species reported in BSI flora of India is Nonea pulla  (L.) DC. (which though perennial as per Flora of Pakistan and has red or dark blue to purplish flowers) looks different as per GBIF. Also see keys in Flora of Pakistan




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taffa...@gmail.com

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Dec 24, 2022, 11:46:15 AM12/24/22
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Dear Garg ji,
Thanks for the links
Jammu and Kashmir Valley are completely different topographically and with very different climatic conditions.Jammu is like Panjab with which it merges but Kashmir Valley is seperated from them by the Pir Panchal Range of mountains and climatically and topographically very different.SMA Kazimi whose name is mentioned on the herbarium sheet has in his 1970 paper mentioned that in Kashmir it is reported from Jammu only. BSI also mentions Jammu and Kashmir and not Kashmir valley and if the info is from 1970 paper of Kazimi then it would mean Jammu part of J and K.I would be grateful if someone would give a reference of it being reported from Kashmir Valley. Gurcharan ji has posted photos of L.arvense from Kashmir Valley but not of abovementioned plants as far as I know.
With sincere regards
Taffazull

J.M. Garg

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Dec 25, 2022, 1:06:31 AM12/25/22
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There is another similar looking species i.e. Gastrocotyle hispida (Forssk.) Bunge, but it is different. Pl. see
https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:941604-1
http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=93142&flora_id=5



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J.M. Garg

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Dec 25, 2022, 1:08:57 AM12/25/22
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Nonea edgeworthii is also a medicinal plant as per 
https://www.isisn.org/BR17(3)2020/1996-1999-17(3)2020BR20-154.pdf

So it is also possible that it was either cultivated or may have escaped cultivation. 
  
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J.M. Garg

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Dec 25, 2022, 1:09:26 AM12/25/22
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Or it has spread in that area from Jammu.
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taffa...@gmail.com

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Dec 25, 2022, 3:43:00 AM12/25/22
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Dear Garg ji,
Thanks for the very interesting suggestions.
Gastrocotyle hispida is obviously very different.
An important  point  is that Flora of Pakistan mention the flowering period of N.edgeworthii  DC  as March-April however it was flowering in Nov-Dec as is clear from the photos
 Medicinal plants are not cultivated in J & K State because most people use allopathic medicines . Hakeems and Homeopaths use patented medicines imported from outside and there is very limited market for medicinal herbs.
Spread from Jammu by bird droppings etc is always possible but what I am almost certain of is that it is not an annual. If it were an annual it would have died by November or early December but so far even its leaves have not withered. Further the thick tap root suggests a biennial or a perennial . I think if the plant I have transferred to the planter thrives and flowers a careful examination of the flowers under a microscope might yield more info. It is also possible that it is some endemic species which has gone unnoticed.
Gurcharan ji who is very familiar with the flora of the valley and indeed the author of a book on Taxonomy can perhaps guide us regarding the same.
With sincere regards
Taffazull

J.M. Garg

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Dec 25, 2022, 3:46:06 AM12/25/22
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Thanks, Taffazull ji



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taffa...@gmail.com

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Dec 26, 2022, 7:08:40 AM12/26/22
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Am posting magnified photo of a fruit seen through a magnifying glass to show dorsal surface ridges and what seem to be tubercles. Collar is clearly visible . Length of fruit is about 3mm.
Regards
Taffazull

FRUIT MAGNIFIED.JPG

J.M. Garg

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Dec 26, 2022, 7:16:23 AM12/26/22
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Does it match with seeds of N.edgeworthii or not?



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taffa...@gmail.com

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Dec 26, 2022, 8:21:15 AM12/26/22
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I do not have photo of nutlet of N.edgeworthii  to compare with but Kazmi's paper says" nutlets slightly rugose with white spots".I am unable to see white spots.I also feel that it is somewhat more than slightly rugose.
Regards
Taffazull

J.M. Garg

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Dec 26, 2022, 9:51:10 AM12/26/22
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See nutlet of Nonea caspica (Willd.) G. Don (Nutlets transversely oblong, 2.5-4 mm, dark brown to black, back rugulose, pilose, often freckled white. Basal ring 1-1.5 mm broad, ridge denticulate with 14-18 minute teeth)
http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=93138&flora_id=5



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taffa...@gmail.com

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Dec 26, 2022, 10:04:13 AM12/26/22
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Flowers of this herb are white and I can not see any white spots on the nutlet which is quite clear from the photo.
If there were white spots they would be easily seen
Regards
Taffazull

J.M. Garg

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Dec 26, 2022, 10:05:15 AM12/26/22
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And Flora of British India gives the following details:
Nonea pulla (L.) DC.

Lamk. et DC. Fl. Fr. iii. 626, in note ; erect, hairy, leaves oblong acute upper subamplexicaul lower petioled, calyx-lobes acuminate, corolla blackish-purple, stamens included. DC. Prodr. x. 32 ; Reichb. Ic. Fl. Germ. t. 1302, fig. 2 ; Boiss. Fl. Orient, iv. 166. N. taurica, Ledeb. Fl. Ross. iii. 112. N. Edgeworthii, A. DC. Prodr. x. 30. Lycopsis pulla, Linn. ; Jacq. Fl. Austr, ii. t. 188 ; Gaertn. Fruct, i. 327, t. 67. Anchusa pulla, Bieb. Fl. Taur. Cauc. i. 125.—Boraginearum sp., Edgw. in Hook. Journ. Bot. ii. 284.

PUNJAB PLAIN, Thomson, Edgeworth, &c.—DISTRIB. Central and E. Europe, W. Asia.

Much branched, 12-18 in., hispid and villous. Leaves 2 by 1/3 in. Racemes 2-5 in., dense ; pedicels 1/8-1/4 in. ; bracts 1 in., leaflike. Calyx 1/4 in. ; in fruit 1/2 in., the campanulate base 1/4 in. diam. ; subglobose. Corolla-tube 1/4 in., narrow ; lobes 1/6 in., half-spreading. Nutlets 1/6 in., obliquely curved inwards, slightly wrinkled, puberulous.


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taffa...@gmail.com

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Dec 26, 2022, 10:16:11 AM12/26/22
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Here the corolla is white
It is definitely a Nonea as general shape of seed is just like in the sketch of capsica but details do not match.No white spots as in capsica or edgeworthii.
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Taffazull

taffa...@gmail.com

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Dec 26, 2022, 11:09:25 AM12/26/22
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Sorry for typo.Should be nutlet instead of seed and caspica instead of capsica

J.M. Garg

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Dec 27, 2022, 1:08:44 AM12/27/22
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taffa...@gmail.com

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Dec 27, 2022, 6:28:20 AM12/27/22
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Am posting some more images of nutlets (photo through a magnifying glass)  along with some older photos for reference:
As morphology of nutlets is characteristic of species I think  any expert familiar with the morphology of Nonea  nutlets can easily identify the species with the help of these photos. I would request any expert in India or any other country to help us regarding the same. However the following points which I have gleaned from my survey of literature available to me ( including Kazmi's landmark work available at JSTOR) would be of interest to members:
1. No member of Nonea Medicus, Philos.Bot.1:31.1789. (Genus Nonea) has been reported from Kashmir valley till date but have been reported from Jammu, Panjab and Haryana. This is the first such report from the valley.
2. The white corolla rules out N.kandharensis, N .caspica and N.pulla.
3.Collar not denticulate rules out N.edgeworthii.
4,Ridge not continued through acute apex on dorsal side ,general shape of nutlet and perhaps absence of prominent caruncle rules out N.turcomanica.
5.That the plant is thriving at the end of the year and the thick carrot like root suggests to me that it is a biennial or a perennial. This rules out all annual species.
I think this is perhaps some endemic species which has been overlooked. I am trying to grow some from seed if possible.
I would request expert opinion from members.
With regards
Taffazull
NUTLETSDORSALANDVENTRAL.JPG
Nutlet Magnified.JPG
NUTLETSRULER.JPG
NUTLETSDORSALANDVENTRAL2.JPG
NUTLETS3.JPG
NUTLETS4.JPG

J.M. Garg

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Dec 27, 2022, 6:42:01 AM12/27/22
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I think the collar is denticulate here, by seeing the 5th and 6th images.




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J.M. Garg

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Dec 27, 2022, 6:42:50 AM12/27/22
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taffa...@gmail.com

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Dec 27, 2022, 8:48:46 AM12/27/22
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Dear Garg ji,
Thanks for the comments
Regarding denticulations it could be as I have no previous experience of studying seed morphology..Wish some person with more experience in seed morphoĺogy would opine on this.
However one has also to cosider annual nature and flowering season march-april of edgeworthii.
Also I am pretty sure and hope you will agree that if the plant I posted was an annual it would have died by early Dec. Then again why should an annual store food in a carrot like tap root? Wonder if the Haryana people checked the root of their specimen.Please ask them if you happen to know any of them. It would be very helpful for us.Also if they have any photos of the seeds so that we could compare these photos with them.As they have published a paper they must have kept a record but in the article for which you kindly provided the link there is only a description of the nutlets without any photos. I presume they must have seen sketched and photographed the nutlets  before publishing..If they would post the photos here it would be easy for us to compare my photos with theirs.
With regards
Taffazull

J.M. Garg

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Dec 28, 2022, 12:34:17 AM12/28/22
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The attached reference has photos showing denticulations in Nonea nutlets of different species.
Regards
Taffazull



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researchgatenonea.pdf

taffa...@gmail.com

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Dec 28, 2022, 11:09:47 AM12/28/22
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The link below has an illustration of the seed of N.edgeworthii   (Credit.S.Hameed)
This illustration clearly shows the longitudinal denticulations projecting down from the ring below the collar like the teeth of a saw. These longitudinal denticulations are clearly absent from the photos of the seeds that I have posted.After seeing this illustration I have absolutely no doubt that the herb is not edgeworthy but a hitherto unreported species endemic to Kashmir Valley.It differs from edgeworthii in not having longitudinal denticulations,flowering in Nov-Dec and not being an annual. Because of the close resembelance of its seed to the seed of N.caspica it is probably genetically more related to it than to edgeworthy. As scientists we have to accept objective evidence no matter how surprising the result
With regards
Taffazull

J.M. Garg

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Dec 28, 2022, 11:21:27 AM12/28/22
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Hope you further pursue it and publish with all the evidence.



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taffa...@gmail.com

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Dec 28, 2022, 11:37:21 AM12/28/22
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Dear Garg ji,
That needs a lot of botanical expertise and also perhaps the flower needs to be dissected to show faucal hairs to prove it as Nonea.I am not sure as it is not my field.However I am thankful to you for insisting that it is not Lithospermum and compliment you for not accepting the obvious.The easy solution is often a wrong solution.
With sincere regards
Taffazull

taffa...@gmail.com

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Dec 28, 2022, 1:03:03 PM12/28/22
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Sorry,should have written nutlets and not seeds.The term stone seed was in my subconscious
Regards
Taffazull

J.M. Garg

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Dec 28, 2022, 7:42:03 PM12/28/22