VOF Week: : Androsace mucronifolia? en-route Hemkund sahib

Prashant Awale

unread,

Sep 7, 2012, 12:18:19 PM9/7/12

to indiantreepix

Dear Friends,

This herb was seen on the boulders en-route Hemkund Sahib. I had earlier identified this as Androsace garhwalicum (Ref: book by Keshava Murthy). After seeing the post by Dinesh of similar plant i feel this plant could also be Androsace mucronifolia?
Family: Primulaceae.

Regards
Prashant

IMG_3336.jpg

IMG_3335.jpg

IMG_3337.jpg

IMG_3337c.jpg

IMG_3338.jpg

Gurcharan Singh

unread,

Sep 7, 2012, 1:23:23 PM9/7/12

to Prashant Awale, indiantreepix

Thanks Prashant ji for another interesting upload.

--

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

--

ushadi Micromini

unread,

Sep 7, 2012, 1:30:19 PM9/7/12

to Gurcharan Singh, Prashant Awale, indiantreepix

Prashant:
just like some totally unrelated plants as in yesterday today and tomorrow... dont know the binomial.... this plant too seems to have flowers that are changing colors...
is it or is it just my eye playing tricks?

Very nice pics by the way
usha di

--

--
Usha di
===========

Prashant Awale

unread,

Sep 9, 2012, 2:13:56 AM9/9/12

to ushadi Micromini, Gurcharan Singh, indiantreepix

Thanks Gurcharan Singh ji, Ushadi for appreciating this upload. I had seen few plants including some Androsace sp, Geranium sp., Boraginaceae sp with different colours - some fading.

In fact i was bit late to photograph this. Dinesh has photographed this plant almost one week ahead of me and he got the plant in full bloom.

Regards
Prashant

ushadi Micromini

unread,

Sep 9, 2012, 9:32:21 AM9/9/12

to Prashant Awale, Gurcharan Singh, indiantreepix

Yes Prashantr
now that I looked at Dinesh's post at ((https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/indiantreepix/Androsace$20mucronifolia$20dinesh$20vof$20week/indiantreepix/cKJEmt7mM2g/1A4HBq-Ug5EJ )) there too is the same fading to white though I agree It was a bit younger more jubilant looking clump at that point in time...
so this color fading must a be a characteristic...
Usha di

--
Usha di
===========

chrischa...@btinternet.com

unread,

Nov 10, 2016, 5:18:48 PM11/10/16

to efloraofindia

This is definitely not Androsace mucronifolia which is not recorded East of Kashmir. I do not know what Androsace garwhalicum is supposed to look like or how it is distinguished from related Androsaces. Can anyone in this group tell me and give the full reference for the publication of this species?

These images look close to those shown on the FOI site named incorrectly as Androsace mucronifolia. See: http://www.flowersofindia.net/catalog/slides/Needle-Tipped%20Rock%20Jasmine.html

What about Androsace globifera?

D.S Rawat

unread,

Nov 11, 2016, 1:15:49 AM11/11/16

to efloraofindia

This seems interesting!
Androsace mucronifolia Watt is not known in Uttarakhand, at least not listed in Uniyal et al. 2007 [(Flowering Plants of Uttarakhand (A Checklist)].
Images shown here and another upload by Dinesh Ji show the characters given by Nasir 1984(FoPakistan) except that the flowers are invariably solitary on peduncles. Nasir have mentioned a varietal name A.mucronifolia var. uniflora Kunth under synonyms which suggests that the species may have solitary flower.
The species A. garhwalicum described by Bipin Balodi and Surendra Singh (in Bull. Bot. Surv. India 30(1-4). 1988) from Hemkund area (India, UP, Chamoli Garhwal, Hemkund, 4200m, U.C. Bhattacharyya 29497 A(Holo), B (Iso) at CAL and BSD) also has solitary flower of 6mm across on 1cm long scape. It has dimorphic oblong-lanceolate or lanceolate leaves with lower leaves smaller and upper leaves larger. It is differentiated from East Himalayan A.selago Hook.f. et Thomson ex Klatt which is (after seeing specimen in Herbcat) is a compact cushion forming species and image is in FoC.
A. globifera and A. delavayi are the other solitary flowered species in Uttarakhand and I have seen A. delavayi in field which it is not. Even A.globifera has more compact and silvery cushions ruling out the possibility.
Some expert may help to resolve the ID with certainty.
Protologue of A.garhwalicum is attached here.
DSRawat Pantnagar

Androsace garhwalicum.JPG

J.M. Garg

unread,

Nov 11, 2016, 7:40:15 AM11/11/16

to D. S Rawat, efloraofindia, chrischa...@btinternet.com, Prashant awale

Thanks, Rawat ji And Chadwell ji

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to indian...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

C CHADWELL

unread,

Nov 11, 2016, 3:15:11 PM11/11/16

to D.S Rawat, efloraofindia

Dear Dr Rawat

Many thanks for your informative comments and sending the description of A.garwhalicum which as

I stated is new to me.

There appear to be no records (to-date) for this species from the NW Himalaya.

I shall look into this further.

I can assure you that the specimens photographed in the VOF do not come close to Androsace mucronifolia. Do you have

available a copy of 'Primulaceae' (Flora Pakistan No. 157) which has a detailed description and line drawings

of this species? The foliage and habit of the two species are very different.

I got to know A.mucronifolia in Kashmir in the 1980s but not seen it elsewhere. The images taken by my expedition

members of this species were not in close-up. I shall see if I can locate them and then send.

I find it frustrating that so many species are described in India which only cover the differences to a species the author(s) say

is the most closely related, even when that species occurs some distance away. It is informative to know what the newly described

species may have been mistaken for in the past i.e. species known to occur in the region.

Do you think A.garwhalicum was mistaken for A.globifera in the past? As Androsace selago is not even recorded for Nepal let alone

what is now Uttarakhand, then it cannot have been mistaken for this in the past. I would suggest that mostly, a species

which is described to be "new to science" has been either collected as herbarium specimen before but misidentified or passed

by in the field and assumed to be an existing species. Occasionally the 'new' species has genuinely not been noticed previously, especially in locations which have not been botanised in much previously.

I e.g. walked past a colony of Meconopsis latifolia in Kashmir several times, assuming was just another form of Meconopsis aculeata amongst the rocks/boulders - I had seen the latter species many times there. We all do this at times.

Furthermore, what about Androsace tapete, which is recorded from Nepal incl. West Nepal which borders Uttarakhand. Grierson & Long (Flora of Bhutan Vol 2 Part II) say that A.selago and A.tapete are variable species which appear to intergrade. Further research is needed on their distinction. Treatment as varieties may be more appropriate. IF these species are so close, why did not Balodi & Singh not comment about how to differentiate A.garwhalicum from A.tapete - which is found geographically nearer than A.selago.

The images on the ANDROSACE website suggest A.selago and A.tapete are distinct. I am not familiar with Androsace selagini. Do you know where this species name comes from?

Also, do you know what Primula mucronifolia is or why it is considered a Primula at all? See: https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/indiantreepix/cKJEmt7mM2g. These images seem to match the others from VOF.

The correct spelling of the name is A.garwhalicum not A.garwhalica!

I cannot see the leaves closely in the photos but the shape of the tips does not appear to match those drawn in the description of A.garwhalicum you sent - would you not agree?

Also, did the British mountaineers who visited the VOF in the 1930s miss what is now A.garwhalicum? As A.globifera is in their Supplementary list it either means that both species are found in VOF or A.garwhalicum was mistaken for this. It would be interesting to inspect the pressed specimens of what was named as A.globifera. However, the list contains species which were observed and not collected, so perhaps A.globifera was one of these? this species is not described in the text of the book. The only other Androsaces recorded from VOF (and Upper Garwhal) in the book 'The Valley of Flowers' are: A.rotundifolia (which it could not have been mistaken for), A.primuloides (which would now be within A.sarmentosa and would not have been mistaken for this), A. poissonii (now A.delavayii and would not be mistaken for this), finally A.chamaejasme var. uniflora (now A.muscoidea and unlikely to have been mistaken for this).

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

From: D.S Rawat <drdsrawat...@gmail.com>
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, 11 November 2016, 6:15
Subject: [efloraofindia:256413] Re: VOF Week: : Androsace mucronifolia? en-route Hemkund sahib

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/indiantreepix/UKNhLijs5b0/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com.

D.S Rawat

unread,

Nov 13, 2016, 12:58:02 AM11/13/16

to C CHADWELL, efloraofindia

Thank you Chadwell Ji for your comments and questions.

Since you have seen A.mucronifolia I agree with your diagnosis that the plant in discussion is NOT A. mucronifolia. Flowers are umbellate in A.mucronifolia which is not visible in Hemkund specimens.

Yes I have a hard copy of Y.J. Nasir’s (1984) Primulaceae as included in Flora of Pakistan, which has not mentioned A. globifera in sufficient details (no description or diagram) due to which we are not able to differentiate these two species.

I cannot comment on the new species described and the comparison of new species with geographically distant species by Indian Taxonomists. The authors were at BDS which is a herbarium housing more than 120000 specimens all collected from Western Himalaya and adjacent plains. I suppose, the authors must had seen A. globifera which was a well known species at that time i.e. 1988. A. globifera was included in Flora of Chamoli District published in 1984 and authored by B.D. Naithani from the same center (Dehradun) of Botanical Survey of India and another herbarium of Forest Research Institute at Dehradun (DD) house specimens collected from all parts of the Himalaya, adjacent countries and Europe. It is easily accessible and the authors, I suppose, must had seen all specimens of Androsace housed in DD too.

Many of the alpine plants in the Western Himalaya are still being identified superficially by the botanist based on Flowers of the Himalaya (Polunin & Stainton 1984) and few botanists have seen its Supplement by Stainton (1988). A. globifera and A. mucronifolia both are illustrated in Flowers of the Himalaya and look similar, at least in the copy which I have, may be due to poor colour printing. This seems to me the reason for this identification as A. mucronifolia. As we all always reiterate identifying plants based on one picture (as based on Flowers of the Himalaya) is always risky particularly when there are many morphologically similar species growing in the area; we all know this excellent document produced by Oleg Pollunin & Adam Stainton is not a complete account. Such cases cannot be resolved without a herbarium study.

I agree with you that the species is an Androsace and have no such characters to be considered as Primula at all. Two Indian taxonomists from DD made this new combination for a reason not known to me.

I also have the accounts of Frank Smythe (Kamet Conquered and Valley of Flowers) and I have browsed them but cannot say which species they saw or whether their identifications were correct or not. But it is sure that they must have seen A.globifera and this species in discussion though they may have considered both same species.

Following species of Androsace are known from Uttarakhand:

A. chamaejasme Host

A. delavayi Franch.

A. fragilis Duthie ex Prain

A. garhwalicum Balodi & S.Singh

A. geranifolia Watt.

A. globifera Duby

A. lanuginosa Wallich

A. primuloides (Hook.f.) Duby

A. rotundifolia Hardw.

A. umbellata (Lour.) Merr.

A. sarmentosa Wallich

A. villosa L.

Among these only A. delavayi, A. garhwalicum, A. globifera are having solitary flower per rosette. A. delavayi I have seen and have light yellow flowers which can be discarded for this case.

I have not seen or collected A. garhwalicum so can’t say.

The species considered as A. globifera by me is attached here (Androsace globifera_DSR) and it was shot in Sunderdhunga valley of Kumaon region. Kumaon region is closer to West Nepal then to Himachal Pradesh. In addition I am also attaching two more images (Androsace-1 and Androsace-2) for your comments on the ID. Androsace-1 was photographed at an elevation of 4800m in Chamoli district of Garhwal in first week of September and it was close to a ridge top on steep slope. Androsace-2 was photographed at an elevation of 3400 m in a glaciated valley near Badrinath in Chamoli district of Garhwal in September and it was found on exposed moderate slope.

DSRawat Pantnagar

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr D.S. Rawat

Department of Biological Sciences, G.B. Pant University of Agriculture & Technology Pantnagar-263 145 Uttarakhand, INDIA

eflorapantnagar displaying wild flora of Pantnagar

To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Friday, 11 November 2016, 6:15
Subject: [efloraofindia:256413] Re: VOF Week: : Androsace mucronifolia? en-route Hemkund sahib

This seems interesting!
Androsace mucronifolia Watt is not known in Uttarakhand, at least not listed in Uniyal et al. 2007 [(Flowering Plants of Uttarakhand (A Checklist)].
Images shown here and another upload by Dinesh Ji show the characters given by Nasir 1984(FoPakistan) except that the flowers are invariably solitary on peduncles. Nasir have mentioned a varietal name A.mucronifolia var. uniflora Kunth under synonyms which suggests that the species may have solitary flower.
The species A. garhwalicum described by Bipin Balodi and Surendra Singh (in Bull. Bot. Surv. India 30(1-4). 1988) from Hemkund area (India, UP, Chamoli Garhwal, Hemkund, 4200m, U.C. Bhattacharyya 29497 A(Holo), B (Iso) at CAL and BSD) also has solitary flower of 6mm across on 1cm long scape. It has dimorphic oblong-lanceolate or lanceolate leaves with lower leaves smaller and upper leaves larger. It is differentiated from East Himalayan A.selago Hook.f. et Thomson ex Klatt which is (after seeing specimen in Herbcat) is a compact cushion forming species and image is in FoC.
A. globifera and A. delavayi are the other solitary flowered species in Uttarakhand and I have seen A. delavayi in field which it is not. Even A.globifera has more compact and silvery cushions ruling out the possibility.
Some expert may help to resolve the ID with certainty.
Protologue of A.garhwalicum is attached here.
DSRawat Pantnagar

On Friday, September 7, 2012 at 9:48:19 PM UTC+5:30, Prashant wrote:
Dear Friends,

This herb was seen on the boulders en-route Hemkund Sahib. I had earlier identified this as Androsace garhwalicum (Ref: book by Keshava Murthy). After seeing the post by Dinesh of similar plant i feel this plant could also be Androsace mucronifolia?
Family: Primulaceae.

Regards
Prashant

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/indiantreepix/UKNhLijs5b0/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

Androsace globifera_DSR.JPG

Androsace-1_DSR.JPG

Androsace-2_DSR.JPG

J.M. Garg

unread,

Nov 17, 2016, 11:51:43 PM11/17/16

to efloraofindia, Prashant awale, D.S Rawat, chrischa...@btinternet.com

Thanks, Chadwell ji & Rawat ji.

To me it appears close to Androsace globifera as per the following images (though I may or may not be correct):

http://www.phytoimages.siu.edu/imgs/Cusman1/r/Primulaceae_Androsace_globifera_93803.html

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Androsace_globifera_3.JPG

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androsace_globifera#/media/File:Androsace_globifera.jpg

https://www.nargs.org/plant/androsace-globifera

http://phytoimages.siu.edu/imgs/Cusman1/r/Primulaceae_Androsace_globifera_70529.html

http://garden.org/plants/view/133923/Rock-Jasmine-Androsace-globifera/

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia.

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

IMG_3336.jpg

IMG_3335.jpg

IMG_3337.jpg

IMG_3337c.jpg

IMG_3338.jpg

Pankaj Kumar

unread,

Nov 18, 2016, 1:02:37 AM11/18/16

to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Prashant awale, D.S Rawat, chrischa...@btinternet.com

Yes I had sent the image to some friends and Dr. Gajendra Singh Rawat says this should be A. globifera.

May be Dr. Chris can through some light on this.

Thanks and regards

Pankaj

--

**********************************************************************************************************************
Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D.
IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia

Office:

Conservation Officer

Orchid Conservation Section

Flora Conservation Department

Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation
Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong.

Residence:
House no. 39, 2nd Floor, Shui Wo Tsuen

Lam Tsuen, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong.
email: pku...@kfbg.org; sahani...@gmail.com
Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251 (mobile); Fax: +852 2483 7194

Dinesh Valke

unread,

Nov 19, 2016, 12:28:20 AM11/19/16

to Pankaj Kumar, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Prashant awale, D.S Rawat, C CHADWELL

Thanks Chadwell ji, Rawat ji and Pankaj !!
Regards.

Dinesh

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

C CHADWELL

unread,

Nov 23, 2016, 5:06:51 PM11/23/16

to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Prashant awale, D.S Rawat

Thought best to collect my thoughts before responding further.

The problem with the links provided (and most from specialist nurseries, growers and the like) is that such people (in good faith mostly - though it is in the commercial interest of nurseries to list as many different species & cultivars as possible, as there are collectors of all available examples of favoured genera e.g. Androsace, Primula, Iris, Meconopsis, Geranium etc.). They will buy if the species name or cultivar name is different to what they already have (or think they have).

The problem is that hardly any of those running nurseries, websites (even the top horticulturists in the UK) have any proper training in how to identify plants - to be fair, often few, if any reference books or other resources exist. They rely on the name something arrived at.

The result is, as my own informal research suggests, a high proportion of plants are misidentified in cultivation (just as a significant proportion of plants seen during surveys and trips to the Himalaya are misidentified). For plants under names of species found in the Himalaya (some plants grow in the Himalaya and other regions of the world, so the example may not have originated in the Himalaya) I judge at least 50% to be misidentified (and I do not mean because they are hybrids, another complication in cultivation) - I have checked plants from nurseries and sources of seed, commercial and botanic garden index semina.

Thus, we cannot expect the situation with Androsace in cultivation to be any different.

Of the links provided, the final two do not come close to the others and in my opinion are not Androsace globifera.

As to the identity of the plant photographed in VoF - this, as I have already stated is definitely not A.mucronifolia. It might be A,globifera but some sources say it should have flower-stalks (others like 'Flowers of Himalaya' say short-stalked or stalkless. It is the most likely candidate. These images appear close to the single close-up image posted from VoF which I have just commented on.

There has long been confusion with the mat and cushion-forming species.

Interestingly, the image of A,globifera in 'Flowers of the Himalaya' shows flowers with darker central parts, as does the much larger photo of this species in 'Portraits of Himalayan Flowers' (T.Yoshida), along with one of the images in his 'Himalayan Plants Illustrated'.

I shall be commented about Androsace garwhalicum in another response.

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Prashant awale <pka...@gmail.com>; D.S Rawat <drdsrawat...@gmail.com>; chrischa...@btinternet.com
Sent: Friday, 18 November 2016, 4:51
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:129229] VOF Week: : Androsace mucronifolia? en-route Hemkund sahib

C CHADWELL

unread,

Nov 23, 2016, 5:09:11 PM11/23/16

to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Prashant awale, D.S Rawat

Thought best to collect my thoughts before responding further.

The problem with the links provided (and most from specialist nurseries, growers and the like) is that such people (in good faith mostly - though it is in the commercial interest of nurseries to list as many different species & cultivars as possible, as there are collectors of all available examples of favoured genera e.g. Androsace, Primula, Iris, Meconopsis, Geranium etc.). They will buy if the species name or cultivar name is different to what they already have (or think they have).

The problem is that hardly any of those running nurseries, websites (even the top horticulturists in the UK) have any proper training in how to identify plants - to be fair, often few, if any reference books or other resources exist. They rely on the name something arrived at.

The result is, as my own informal research suggests, a high proportion of plants are misidentified in cultivation (just as a significant proportion of plants seen during surveys and trips to the Himalaya are misidentified). For plants under names of species found in the Himalaya (some plants grow in the Himalaya and other regions of the world, so the example may not have originated in the Himalaya) I judge at least 50% to be misidentified (and I do not mean because they are hybrids, another complication in cultivation) - I have checked plants from nurseries and sources of seed, commercial and botanic garden index semina.

Thus, we cannot expect the situation with Androsace in cultivation to be any different.

Of the links provided, the final two do not come close to the others and in my opinion are not Androsace globifera.

As to the identity of the plant photographed in VoF - this, as I have already stated is definitely not A.mucronifolia. It might be A,globifera but some sources say it should have flower-stalks (others like 'Flowers of Himalaya' say short-stalked or stalkless. It is the most likely candidate.

There has long been confusion with the mat and cushion-forming species.

Interestingly, the image of A,globifera in 'Flowers of the Himalaya' shows flowers with darker central parts, as does the much larger photo of this species in 'Portraits of Himalayan Flowers' (T.Yoshida), along with one of the images in his 'Himalayan Plants Illustrated'.

I shall comment about Androsace garhwalicum in my response to another post.

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Prashant awale <pka...@gmail.com>; D.S Rawat <drdsrawat...@gmail.com>; chrischa...@btinternet.com
Sent: Friday, 18 November 2016, 4:51

Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:256981] VOF Week: : Androsace mucronifolia? en-route Hemkund sahib

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/indiantreepix/UKNhLijs5b0/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com.

C CHADWELL

unread,

Nov 23, 2016, 5:28:41 PM11/23/16

to Pankaj Kumar, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Prashant awale, D.S Rawat

Thought best to collect my thoughts before responding further.

The problem with the links provided (and most from specialist nurseries, growers and the like) is that such people (in good faith mostly - though it is in the commercial interest of nurseries to list as many different species & cultivars as possible, as there are collectors of all available examples of favoured genera e.g. Androsace, Primula, Iris, Meconopsis, Geranium etc.). They will buy if the species name or cultivar name is different to what they already have (or think they have).

The problem is that hardly any of those running nurseries, websites (even the top horticulturists in the UK) have any proper training in how to identify plants - to be fair, often few, if any reference books or other resources exist. They rely on the name something arrived at.

The result is, as my own informal research suggests, a high proportion of plants are misidentified in cultivation (just as a significant proportion of plants seen during surveys and trips to the Himalaya are misidentified). For plants under names of species found in the Himalaya (some plants grow in the Himalaya and other regions of the world, so the example may not have originated in the Himalaya) I judge at least 50% to be misidentified (and I do not mean because they are hybrids, another complication in cultivation) - I have checked plants from nurseries and sources of seed, commercial and botanic garden index semina.

Thus, we cannot expect the situation with Androsace in cultivation to be any different.

Of the links provided, the final two do not come close to the others and in my opinion are not Androsace globifera.

As to the identity of the plant photographed in VoF - this, as I have already stated is definitely not A.mucronifolia. It might be A.globifera but some sources say it should have flower-stalks (others like 'Flowers of Himalaya' say short-stalked or stalkless. It is the most likely candidate.

There has long been confusion with the mat and cushion-forming species.

Interestingly, the image of A,globifera in 'Flowers of the Himalaya' shows flowers with darker central parts, as does the much larger photo of this species in 'Portraits of Himalayan Flowers' (T.Yoshida), along with one of the images in his 'Himalayan Plants Illustrated'.

I comment about Androsace garwhalicum in other posts.

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

From: Pankaj Kumar <sahani...@gmail.com>
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>; Prashant awale <pka...@gmail.com>; D.S Rawat <drdsrawat...@gmail.com>; chrischa...@btinternet.com
Sent: Friday, 18 November 2016, 6:02
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:256983] VOF Week: : Androsace mucronifolia? en-route Hemkund sahib

C CHADWELL

unread,

Nov 23, 2016, 5:30:20 PM11/23/16