Alstonia scholaris in fruit

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Arijit Banerjee

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Jan 10, 2011, 3:21:55 AM1/10/11
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Alstonia scholaris in fruit,
Patuli, Kolkata, India
8 January 2011

The fruits do look quite similar to those of Wrightia tinctoria (Khirni)

Arijit Banerjee

8 jan alstonia k5.jpg

Anandi Sharan

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Jan 10, 2011, 3:51:47 AM1/10/11
to Arijit Banerjee, efloraofindia
thank you very much. i never knew what this was.
the one in my garden is barely in fruit. maybe i need to water more.
kempapura road, bangalore
10 jan 2011

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alstonia scholaris as 11 jan11.JPG

Ajay Nalawade

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Jan 10, 2011, 4:24:25 AM1/10/11
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We noted Some Bark scraping in Konkan region.
Can anybody tell for which purpose this bark is used???

On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 1:51 PM, Arijit Banerjee <ari...@gmail.com> wrote:

sheetal chaudhari

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Jan 10, 2011, 8:16:19 AM1/10/11
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I read somewhere that the bark is used in the treatment of diabetes.


Sheetal Pachpande
Research student,
B. N. Bandodkar college of Science,
Thane West.

Rashida Atthar

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Jan 10, 2011, 8:38:15 AM1/10/11
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Ajay ji according to info. in the book 'Trees of Mumbai' pg 51 ..." In olden days the wood of this tree was used  to make slates for children, hence scholaris." The book further adds "The dita bark of the  tree is used in Indian medecine for treating asthma and heart ailments, fever and  diarrhoea.During the Diwali festival, the bitter bark is consumed before eating sweets to neutralize the excessive intake of sugar."

regards,
Rashida.
    

On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Ajay Nalawade <anala...@gmail.com> wrote:

Pankaj Oudhia

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Jan 10, 2011, 8:43:30 AM1/10/11
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kiran srivastava

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Jan 10, 2011, 9:11:11 AM1/10/11
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A little trivia: Large branches of the big Alstonia scholaris tree behind the house I temporarily stay in Delhi was cut down ostensibly to allow the sun rays on the flower bed in the small park. Apparently, the local garden community had this tree trimmed by the NDMC authorities. But it wouldn't surprise me if branches of trees are cut to allow the sun in winter to warm up courtyards that are otherwise completely blotted from the the sun. I have seen it happen. Before it was trimmed the flowers were within touching distance from the 2nd floor terrace.

There are several trees such as Semul (Bombax malabaricum) and Siris (Albizia lebbek) growing in small, old colony roads whose branches have spread widely blocking sunlight in homes. They could be trimmed especially, if old people want to sit out and soak in the sun during Delhi's winters...and this winter its really cold.

Cheers,
Kiran Srivastava   

On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 7:08 PM, Rashida Atthar <atthar....@gmail.com> wrote:

Pankaj Kumar

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Jan 10, 2011, 9:14:22 AM1/10/11
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One of the local names of Alstonia scholaris is CHHATIM or CHATNI CHAAL.
The bark is supposed to be very useful for blood purification
especially in case of diabetes or Jaundice in Jharkhand as well as in
Ayurveda. Thats why Mr. Nalwade must have seen bark scrapping.
Pankaj

--
***********************************************
"TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!"


Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae)
Research Associate
Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project
Department of Habitat Ecology
Wildlife Institute of India
Post Box # 18
Dehradun - 248001, India

tanay bose

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Jan 10, 2011, 10:07:24 AM1/10/11
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The state tree of Bengal
tanay
--
Tanay Bose
Research Assistant & Teaching Assistant.
Department of Botany.
University of British Columbia .
3529-6270 University Blvd.
Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4 (Canada)
Phone: 778-323-4036 (Mobile)
           604-822-2019 (Lab)
           604-822-6089  (Fax)

Pankaj Kumar

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Jan 10, 2011, 1:59:17 PM1/10/11
to tanay bose, kiran srivastava, anala...@gmail.com, indian...@googlegroups.com, atthar....@gmail.com
Its called SCHOLARIS because, the old times plates of leaves were
exclusively used to give away degrees to the students.
Pankaj

tanay bose

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Jan 10, 2011, 2:54:04 PM1/10/11
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This is still a practice in Viswa Bharati university 
shantiniketan, west bengal India
Tanay

nabha meghani

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Jan 10, 2011, 3:35:55 PM1/10/11
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Is the text "written" on the leaves? how is that done?

Pankaj Kumar

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Jan 10, 2011, 3:38:27 PM1/10/11
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The compound leaf was used as a plate and the degree which was usually
on the paper or parchment sheet or may be leather, or whatever, is
kept on the plate.
Pankaj

nabha meghani

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Jan 10, 2011, 4:52:16 PM1/10/11
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two more questions:
what is so special about this leaf?
the leaf dosen't look so big!
Is there any foto available of this "giving"
Thanks
Nalini

Rashida Atthar

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Jan 10, 2011, 11:35:09 PM1/10/11
to nabha meghani, Pankaj Kumar, tanay bose, kiran srivastava, anala...@gmail.com, indian...@googlegroups.com
All the soureces of information I have state that it gets its specific name of scholaris from the fact that in olden days the the wood was used for making school slates. Nowhere is the name attributed to have originated from the fact of giving degrees on the leaves. Perhaps if Dr. Pankaj could site the source of his information it would be nice to know how all the authors missed the same !. Besides the source I have stated earlier 'Medecinal plants' by S.K. Jain and 'The book of Indian Trees' by K. C. Sahni too mention the same reason of use of slates.  
 
I feel that because of the name Alstonia scholaris and the 4 to 7  whorled shape of leaves, it could have led to the practise of using it to hand over the degrees on, as followed at Shantiniketan mentioned by Tanay. Attaching  recent pictures from MNP, Mumbai.
 
regards,
Rashida.
 
On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 3:22 AM, nabha meghani <nabha-...@gmx.de> wrote:
two more questions:
what is so special about this leaf?
the leaf dosen't look so big!
Is there any foto available of this "giving"
Thanks
Nalini

----- Original Message ----- From: "Pankaj Kumar" <sahani...@gmail.com>
To: "nabha meghani" <nabha-...@gmx.de>
Alstonia scholaris follicles.JPG
Alstonia scholaris full tree.JPG

Pankaj Kumar

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Jan 10, 2011, 11:42:16 PM1/10/11
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I dont know, may be the leaves are insect repellent.
There are could be other reasons.
There are some funny stories about many such plants.
For example, why Julius Ceaser had this Laurel Leaf crown though he
was a king!!!
People say that he was bald and so some herbal medicine guy told him
to wear Laurel Leaf Crown to get back the hairs.
When people came to know about this, they started making fun of him.
Embarrassed by this, he made a rule that Laurel Leaf crown will be
worn only by the royal king and even started giving this as prize to
the athletes even in during Olympics.

Pankaj

Anandi Sharan

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Jan 11, 2011, 2:39:34 AM1/11/11
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i started trying to figure out the logic in the number of leaves on
each compound leaf. 6 on some twigs, repeated, if there are 7 then
this is also repeated on the next level, others have 9. then i googled
and found alstonia scholaris used in a scientific paper to model a
virtual tree. after applying the procedure the author says "the
difference between the model constructed from our system and the
target plant remains. this is because of the complexity in nature
which [sic] the random could not easily interpreted and calculated by
humans." (p.6). i still have not found anything about the maths
underlying the number of leaves on compound leaves as the tree grows.
so i offer this link as a small contribution to the stories instead.
my conclusion: it must be this gap between what would be
mathematically perfect and what is, that makes nature so perfect. :)

http://bioquest.org/products/files/13157_Real-time%203D%20Plant%20Structure%20Modeling%20by%20L-System.pdf

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Pankaj Kumar

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Jan 11, 2011, 2:55:38 AM1/11/11
to Anandi Sharan, nabha meghani, tanay bose, kiran srivastava, anala...@gmail.com, indian...@googlegroups.com, atthar....@gmail.com
This is true that we cant interpret science with our theories. They
are just hypothesis and assumptions. The number of leaflets in
compound leaves vary a lot but that too depend on the species. In some
plants the numbers are always fixed, like Butea (3), Marsilea (4),
Regnellidium (2); but in some like members of Araliaceae, Alstonia,
Bombax etc.
Its not a big deal. Personally I feel, it may be due to availability
of nutrient during that particular times.
Its just like having twin or quadruplet or triplet baby. You can never
predict it in advance!!!
Pankaj

Anandi Sharan

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Jan 11, 2011, 6:54:09 AM1/11/11
to Pankaj Kumar, nabha meghani, tanay bose, kiran srivastava, anala...@gmail.com, indian...@googlegroups.com, atthar....@gmail.com
ok cool ! -- wonderful to know that there are things out there that
are genuinely not a big deal -- -- :) :)

--
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Gurcharan Singh

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Jan 11, 2011, 7:04:36 AM1/11/11
to Anandi Sharan, Pankaj Kumar, nabha meghani, tanay bose, kiran srivastava, anala...@gmail.com, indian...@googlegroups.com, atthar....@gmail.com
I could not figure out 
"i started trying to figure out the logic in the number of leaves on
each compound leaf"

Alstonia and compound leaf?

It is fine if we talk about number of leaves in each whorl on branches.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 



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Anandi Sharan

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Jan 11, 2011, 7:07:29 AM1/11/11
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sorry gurcharanji: i am a total amateur --
i was counting the number of leaves on each whorl - but could not find
a pattern --
thanks for correction :)

>> >>>> <srivas...@gmail.com>; <anala...@gmail.com>;

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promila chaturvedi

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Jan 11, 2011, 8:15:37 AM1/11/11
to tanay bose, Pankaj Kumar, kiran srivastava, anala...@gmail.com, indian...@googlegroups.com, atthar....@gmail.com
The Blackboards, which were used in the classes in my time, weremadefrom Scholar's tree. Hence the name Alstonia scholaris.
Kiran Ji, choping the braches of trees is ban in Delhi. If somebody does it without forest department's writtenpermision can be sued, and the penalty is one year jail or Rs. 80,000=00 fine or both.
Promila

Anandi Sharan

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Jan 11, 2011, 9:10:20 AM1/11/11
to promila chaturvedi, tanay bose, Pankaj Kumar, kiran srivastava, anala...@gmail.com, indian...@googlegroups.com, atthar....@gmail.com
dear promila ji

the funny thing is that electricity board without permission does it
all the time -- when i asked them for their permission note they said
they did not have one and that they did not need one. i will check
this again now that you remind me.
green greetings
anandi

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Rashida Atthar

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Jan 12, 2011, 1:41:42 AM1/12/11
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Thankyou for this info. Promila ji. Yes slates, blackboards, these uses of its wood has led to the Scholaris name.
 
regards,
Rashida.

On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 6:45 PM, promila chaturvedi <thegardener...@gmail.com> wrote:

Usha Desai

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Jan 12, 2011, 4:17:43 AM1/12/11
to Rashida Atthar, promila chaturvedi, tanay bose, Pankaj Kumar, kiran srivastava, anala...@gmail.com, indian...@googlegroups.com
Here there is information re graduation certficates at Shantiniketan
[ref."Sen"trees of Mumbai page 123]
'
A leaf of the Saptparni adorning the certificates of graduates of the Shantiniketan University ,became a practce ever since  Indira Gandhi, the then Prime Minister attended a convocation as the chief guest,which was as usual held under the shade of this very tree.So impressed was she tby the umbrella of  shade that she recommanded that the pracise be adopted,so as to imprint the contribution of the tree in the minds of the students along with the scripted name of the university."
thanking you all.Usha Desai

Pankaj Kumar

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Jan 12, 2011, 5:10:36 AM1/12/11
to Usha Desai, Rashida Atthar, promila chaturvedi, tanay bose, kiran srivastava, anala...@gmail.com, indian...@googlegroups.com
Thanks a lot Usha mam for the reference. This is the same thing which
Mr. Tanay told. I didnt try for searching as I didnt find the request
relevant enough to spend time out of my hectic work. But I am spending
time

As far as my knowledge is concerned, I came to know about this from a
very learned guy whose expertise is as much as many senior scientists
of India and he quoted the reference of vedas or vedic period. Apart
from being a very eminent taxonomist, he also has one of the strangest
hobbies of collecting stories behind the name of plants and their
origin. May be, Mr. Tanay or someone at Shantiniketan or someone
nearby to that place would be able to tell us how far this knowledge
goes in the history. This was one of many such stories which he told
me and obviously it was based on his knowledge and scientific backup!

Many plants are being used showing it to be of mythological
significance, but at the same time, it does have a scientific
background too. Just one of my hypothesis would be, MAY BE because
degrees are usually a paper which remains with you for your life time
and Alstonia leaves could be an insect repellent....just a wild
thought....

The tree is also called Devils Tree, MAY BE because Coffins are made
from the wood of this tree. Now who is going to check the reference
about who used it as a coffin first!!

Anyways, for some "IGNORANCE IS A BLISS", on second thought, "LET IT
BE, AS FAR AS IT BRINGS HAPPINESS TO THEM!".

Regards
Pankaj

promila chaturvedi

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Jan 12, 2011, 7:40:41 AM1/12/11
to Anandi Sharan, tanay bose, Pankaj Kumar, kiran srivastava, anala...@gmail.com, indian...@googlegroups.com, atthar....@gmail.com
Anadi Ji,
thanks for the answer. But Electricity Board can do it. They do not need to take the permission. Some times they may take undue advantage of it. Others cannot do the same.
Promila

Gurcharan Singh

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Jan 12, 2011, 9:00:41 AM1/12/11
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I would request members to desist from comments which can hart others, even though they may be made obliquely. It has been the result of great efforts by many of us that we see such an hormonious and cordial atmosphere in this group. Let not any single action undo this great effort. This is my humble request.
 
There are several references to support that epithet scholaris is derived from the old practice of making slates from its wood. The practice of using the whorl of leaves for giving degrees may have been a secondary development as suggested by Rashida ji. I did not find any refrence of this being the original reason/source of name scholaris. Besides references provided by Rashida ji, here are some more. The first link itself should settle the issue. There perhaps hundreds of links supporting the same. I am giving few):
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


--
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/


 

Gurcharan Singh

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Jan 12, 2011, 9:06:32 AM1/12/11
to promila chaturvedi, Anandi Sharan, tanay bose, Pankaj Kumar, kiran srivastava, anala...@gmail.com, indian...@googlegroups.com, atthar....@gmail.com
Read hurt for hart
 


--
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/



Pankaj Kumar

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Jan 12, 2011, 9:22:46 AM1/12/11
to Gurcharan Singh, promila chaturvedi, Anandi Sharan, tanay bose, kiran srivastava, anala...@gmail.com, indian...@googlegroups.com, atthar....@gmail.com
Dear Gurcharan sir

Thanks a lot for putting it in simple words.

TO OTHER MEMBERS, I would just like to request that whatever
information you are adding, is what you known with the best of your
knowledge. So please dont keep insisting to prove yourself right and
others wrong and then ask other for references.

This is a humble request to maintain a cordial atmosphere in the group.

Thanks for the support and keep posting.

Regards
Pankaj

Gurcharan Singh

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Jan 12, 2011, 9:30:23 AM1/12/11
to Pankaj Kumar, promila chaturvedi, Anandi Sharan, tanay bose, kiran srivastava, anala...@gmail.com, indian...@googlegroups.com, atthar....@gmail.com
 Since we are talking about wooden slates,  those who must have used wooden slates (Takhti) must be knowing that there are two ways of doing this:
 
1. First way is to smear the surface of slate with a suspension of white clay, allow it to dry and then wright with normal ink using wooden pen (kalam)........black/blue black on white.
 
2. Second way includes moving slate over a flame of oil lamp in such a way that it gets covered with soot. The next step is to rub the fresh leaves of Rumex so that the soot sticks firmly on the slate, and then rub back of inkpot on the slate to give it a shine (ghota). This black slate is then written on using the suspension of white clay.........white on black 
 
Lucky for modern children, no messing around and no hard work. simple slates and crayons, most self rubbing/easing rubbing.


--
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/


Na Bha

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Jan 12, 2011, 10:19:34 AM1/12/11
to Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia

Subject changed from >>  Re: [efloraofindia:60136] Fruits & Vegetables Week: Rumex dentatus,

to Fw: [efloraofindia:60139] Alstonia scholaris in fruit

----- Original Message -----
From: Na Bha
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:60136] Fruits & Vegetables Week: Rumex dentatus,

Very interesting information Prof. Singh ji.
I used a real slate. I wish i had made my own slate the way you have described.
My grandfather told us about Dhulpati. The used to spread dust over a plate and write in that.
 
The wooden pen (kalam ) you are writing about, is a wooden pen? My father used to use Boru, which is made from Bamboo.  But kalam ist different is it?
 I don't have a boru here with me and can't post a foto of it. But i have the squeak sound of it in my ears.
Regards
Nalini
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:60136] Fruits & Vegetables Week: Rumex dentatus,

Since there has been a lot of discussion in another thread about the use of Alstonia scholaris wood for making slates for school children (hence the name scholaris), those who must have used wooden slates (Takhti) must be knowing that there are two ways of doing this:
 
1. First ways is to smear the surface of slate with a suspension of white clay, allow it to dry and then wright with normal ink using wooden pen (kalam)........black/blue black on white.
 
2. Second way includes moving slate over a flame of oil lamp in such a way that it gets covered with soot. The next step is to rub the fresh leaves of Rumex so that the soot sticks firmly on the slate, and then rub back of inkpot on the slate to give it a shine (ghota). This black slate is then written on using the suspension of white clay.........white on black 
 
--
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/


On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 7:34 PM, Nidhan Singh <nidhans...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
It becomes a nuisance when it comes along with wheat. You might be
aware that this is troublesome weed in wheat harvesting areas of our
region. I actually didn't know about it being used as a vegetable.
Thanks for the info.
Regards,




--
Dr. Nidhan Singh
Department of Botany
I.B. (PG) College
Panipat-132103 Haryana
Ph.: 09416371227

Rashida Atthar

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Jan 12, 2011, 10:37:08 AM1/12/11
to Gurcharan Singh, promila chaturvedi, Anandi Sharan, tanay bose, Pankaj Kumar, kiran srivastava, anala...@gmail.com, indian...@googlegroups.com
Thankyou Sir for the various links and info. and validating the scientific name that so  many authors have already stated.  I think in our goal of making this group more and more authentic and taxonomically up to date, we must continue to accept  first  the facts that are available,  and if there is any contradiction or varying informattion than that source or citation should be given by the concerned person who has brought it to the notice otherwise it leads to ambiguity and bad science.  
 
regards,
Rashida.  
 

 
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 7:30 PM, Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com> wrote:

Rashida Atthar

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Jan 12, 2011, 10:40:42 AM1/12/11
to Gurcharan Singh, Pankaj Kumar, promila chaturvedi, Anandi Sharan, tanay bose, kiran srivastava, anala...@gmail.com, indian...@googlegroups.com
This is really interesting information Sir. Takes  one back to pre-school and primary school experience! and what a coincidence that Rumex is being discussed too right now! Thankyou for sharing the same.
 
regards,
Rashida. 

Pankaj Kumar

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Jan 12, 2011, 12:02:11 PM1/12/11
to Na Bha, Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia
Thanks a lot for sharing this information about making slates and pen.
With respect to conservation of this species, I am glad I didn't use
the bark of this tree.
Pankaj

--

Dr Pankaj Kumar

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Jan 14, 2011, 10:41:06 AM1/14/11
to efloraofindia
There was a mail written by me here, which seems to be removed.
I assume my language was too harsh and it has hurt the feelings of
some members including Ms. Rashida Atthar and Dr. Gurcharan Singh. I
hereby express an apology to both and I assure such things wont happen
again in future.
I am extremely sorry for my previous mail.
Regards
Pankaj

Gurcharan Singh

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Jan 14, 2011, 10:59:40 PM1/14/11
to Dr Pankaj Kumar, efloraofindia
 My often repeated request, let us make interactions on this group enjoyable. I want atmosphere on this group to improe with every day.
 

--
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/



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