Requesting I'd confirmation of Thrixspermum formosanum (Orchidaceae)

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Madhusudhan Khanal

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Jul 19, 2022, 6:17:14 AMJul 19
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Respected experts. The flower of this specimen resambles T. formosanum . The specimen was reported as first from India by Gogoi and Yonzone (2015) and was collected from Assam. In Orchids of India (Pictorial guide) the species T. formosanum have been treated as a synonym of T. pygmeaum but on checking the status of T. formosanum it looks like a different species. Kindly help in the identification of this Thrixspermum.
Regards,
Madhusudhan Khanal 
1655701671355_DSC_0184.JPG

J.M. Garg

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Jul 19, 2022, 6:20:00 AMJul 19
to efloraofindia, Madhusudhan Khanal
Thanks, Madhusudhan ji

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Saroj Kasaju

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Jul 19, 2022, 10:45:18 AMJul 19
to efloraindia, J.M. Garg, Madhusudhan Khanal
Thrixspermum formosanum !
Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju


Madhusudhan Khanal

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Jul 19, 2022, 11:32:44 AMJul 19
to Saroj Kasaju, efloraindia, J.M. Garg
Thank you sir. 
Regards,
Madhusudhan

Saroj Kasaju

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Jul 19, 2022, 11:44:04 AMJul 19
to Madhusudhan Khanal, efloraindia, J.M. Garg
OK Madhusudan Ji !
Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

J.M. Garg

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Jul 24, 2022, 6:22:32 AMJul 24
to Saroj Kasaju, efloraindia, Madhusudhan Khanal
Thanks, Saroj ji, for the validation.
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J.M.Garg

Saroj Kasaju

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Jul 24, 2022, 7:44:49 AMJul 24
to J.M. Garg, efloraindia, Madhusudhan Khanal

Thank you Mr. Garg !

Saroj Kasaju

Pankaj Kumar

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Jul 25, 2022, 2:23:09 AMJul 25
to J.M. Garg, Khyanjeet Gogoi, Saroj Kasaju, efloraindia, Madhusudhan Khanal
Dear sir
I do not understand your question.
1. What is the id of this orchid in the picture? - I need to show me a dissected flower to confirm.
2. Thrixspermum formosanum is synonym of T. pygmaeum according to the BSI's book? - I have the book right in front of me and this book doesn't claim that they are synonym, please check again
Khayanjit already wrote in his manuscript
"Note: Thrixspermum formosanum (Hayata) Schltr. is similar to Thrixspermum pygmaeum (King & Pantl.) Holt. Gogoi et al., 2012 described this species as Thrixspermum pygmaeum but differs by having abaxially purple spot-ted leaves and a white, with brownish stripes, lipped flower."
I have added Khyanjeet in the email.
Thanks and regards
Pankaj

Pankaj

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Pankaj Kumar MSc, PhD, FLS

IUCN-SSC Red List Authority for Orchids of Asia

IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia; Global Orchid Trade Group; Western Ghats Plant Specialist Group

Lam Tsuen, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong S.A.R., P.R. China

email: sahani...@gmail.com; pku...@kfbg.org
Phone: +852 9436 6251 (mobile)

J.M. Garg

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Jul 30, 2022, 2:24:38 AMJul 30
to efloraofindia, Madhusudhan Khanal, Khyanjeet Gogoi, Dr. Pankaj Kumar, Saroj Kasaju

Forwarding again for Id assistance please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

Thrixspermum formosanum !
Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju 

I do not understand your question.
1. What is the id of this orchid in the picture? - I need to show me a dissected flower to confirm.
2. Thrixspermum formosanum is synonym of T. pygmaeum according to the BSI's book? - I have the book right in front of me and this book doesn't claim that they are synonym, please check again
Khayanjit already wrote in his manuscript
"Note: Thrixspermum formosanum (Hayata) Schltr. is similar to Thrixspermum pygmaeum (King & Pantl.) Holt. Gogoi et al., 2012 described this species as Thrixspermum pygmaeum but differs by having abaxially purple spot-ted leaves and a white, with brownish stripes, lipped flower."
I have added Khyanjeet in the email.
Thanks and regards

Pankaj 

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Madhusudhan Khanal <mkhanal....@sikkimuniversity.ac.in>
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 at 15:47
Subject: [efloraofindia:428512] Requesting I'd confirmation of Thrixspermum formosanum (Orchidaceae)
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>


Respected experts. The flower of this specimen resambles T. formosanum . The specimen was reported as first from India by Gogoi and Yonzone (2015) and was collected from Assam. In Orchids of India (Pictorial guide) the species T. formosanum have been treated as a synonym of T. pygmeaum but on checking the status of T. formosanum it looks like a different species. Kindly help in the identification of this Thrixspermum.
Regards,
Madhusudhan Khanal 

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With regards,
J.M.Garg
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Madhusudhan Khanal

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Jul 30, 2022, 4:05:32 AMJul 30
to Pankaj Kumar, J.M. Garg, Khyanjeet Gogoi, Saroj Kasaju, efloraindia
Respected sir. I just want to confirm whether T.pygmeaum and T.formosanum are different species or not. In orchids of India (Pictorial guide) below Thrixspermum pygmeaum in the synonym section there is mention of T.formosanum. I don't have the book with me right now but I can show you the picture of the page on which it is mentioned on Monday. Sharing you the dissected pics of the flower shortly. Thank you.
Regards,
Madhusudhan Khanal 

Gurcharan Singh

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Jul 31, 2022, 12:56:31 AMJul 31
to eFloraofIndia
They are distinct species according to both POWO and COL,
T. pygmeaum distributed in  China Southeast, East Himalaya, Nansei-shoto, Nepal, Taiwan, Vietnam
T. formosanum native to  Taiwan, Vietnam

Madhusudhan Khanal

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Jul 31, 2022, 1:35:21 AMJul 31
to efloraofindia
Thank you sir. 
Regards,
Madhusudhan Khanal 

Saroj Kasaju

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Jul 31, 2022, 3:02:51 AMJul 31
to indian...@googlegroups.com, Gurcharan Singh, J.M. Garg, Madhusudhan Khanal
Orchids of Assam book has mentioned its distribution for Assam, China and Vietnam !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju


Madhusudhan Khanal

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Jul 31, 2022, 4:09:47 AMJul 31
to Saroj Kasaju, efloraofindia, Gurcharan Singh, J.M. Garg
Thank you for the information sir.
Regards,
Madhusudhan 

Saroj Kasaju

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Jul 31, 2022, 4:10:34 AMJul 31
to Madhusudhan Khanal, Gurcharan Singh, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia
Ok Madhusudan ji !
Saroj Kasaju
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Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

Madhusudhan Khanal

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Aug 1, 2022, 1:21:26 AMAug 1
to Pankaj Kumar, J.M. Garg, Khyanjeet Gogoi, Saroj Kasaju, efloraindia
Kindly check the mention of T.formosanum below T.pygmeaum in Orchids of India Pictorial guide.
Thank you
IMG-20220801-WA0006.jpg

Pankaj Kumar

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Aug 1, 2022, 2:03:44 AMAug 1
to Madhusudhan Khanal, J.M. Garg, Khyanjeet Gogoi, Saroj Kasaju, efloraindia
Respected sir

Yes, the name Thrixspermum formosanum is written under Thrixspermum pygmaeum in the BSI book. But no, it doesnt mean they are synonym because there is something else written in front of the text.
What it means is, "the plant mentioned by Khyanjeet Gogoi and Rajendra Yonzone in The MIOS Journal is not T. formosanum but T. pygmaeum.
"auct. non."  means this name doesnt belong to the original author, that was Schlechter, who synonymised the name Sarcochilus formosanus of Hayata under Thrixspermum as Thrixspermum formosanum.
In simple words, BSI is saying Khyanjeet and Yonzone were wrong in identifying their plant.
So currently these two names, Thrixspermum formosanum and T. pygmaeum are considered distinct and both are accepted names.

Pankaj



Madhusudhan Khanal

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Aug 1, 2022, 5:45:27 AMAug 1
to Pankaj Kumar, J.M. Garg, Khyanjeet Gogoi, Saroj Kasaju, efloraindia
Now I understand. Thank you sir for the clarification. 
Regards,
Madhusudhan 

Khyanjeet Gogoi

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Aug 2, 2022, 12:05:24 PM (13 days ago) Aug 2
to Madhusudhan Khanal, Pankaj Kumar, J.M. Garg, Saroj Kasaju, efloraindia
Your plant is not Thrixspermum formosanum, formosanum and pygmaeum both are different species, I do not agree with BSI. Please go through my  Thrixspermum formosanum Photograph......
_DSC0036.JPG
_DSC0014.JPG

J.M. Garg

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Aug 2, 2022, 12:07:50 PM (13 days ago) Aug 2
to Khyanjeet Gogoi, Madhusudhan Khanal, Pankaj Kumar, Saroj Kasaju, efloraindia
Thanks a lot, Khyanjeet ji
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With regards,
J.M.Garg

Madhusudhan Khanal

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Aug 3, 2022, 2:47:19 AM (13 days ago) Aug 3
to Khyanjeet Gogoi, Pankaj Kumar, J.M. Garg, Saroj Kasaju, efloraindia
Attached more pictures of the plant with flowers. The flowers are exact similar with the plants you posted. I also have gone through your publication and the characters matches perfectly with it. Kindly have a look at it once. Thank you.
Regards,
Madhusudhan Khanal 
DSC_0110.JPG

Pankaj Kumar

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Aug 3, 2022, 3:14:33 AM (13 days ago) Aug 3
to Madhusudhan Khanal, Khyanjeet Gogoi, J.M. Garg, Saroj Kasaju, efloraindia
Hello all
I checked some more references including pictures and sketches of plants from Taiwan. I also looked into Khyanjeet's article and I agree that his plant is Thrixspermum formosanum.
I dont have very high resolution images. But I do not see hairs on the outer surface of labellum in Khyanjeet's images. But I see hairs on Khanal's images.
Can you guys confirm if its true. I think at this moment Khyanjeets plant matches more with formosanum and not with pygmaeum. I have also looked into flora of Taiwan. The illustrations of pygmaeum in flora of taiwan doesnt match with either of the members. However, lets say what if the illustration of at least pygmaeum is wrong in the book!!
I have also looked into specimens from Vietnam. The plants do match well with Khyanjeet's images. And there are no hairs on outer surface of labellum.

Pankaj Kumar

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Aug 3, 2022, 3:24:25 AM (13 days ago) Aug 3
to Madhusudhan Khanal, Khyanjeet Gogoi, J.M. Garg, Saroj Kasaju, efloraindia
In worst case plants of both look like T. formosanum actually!

Pankaj Kumar

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Aug 3, 2022, 3:35:14 AM (13 days ago) Aug 3
to Madhusudhan Khanal, Khyanjeet Gogoi, J.M. Garg, Saroj Kasaju, efloraindia
Here is the image of the original drawing attached
It obviously doesn't match with either of the images.

T pygmaeum.jpg

Madhusudhan Khanal

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Aug 3, 2022, 3:59:45 AM (13 days ago) Aug 3
to Pankaj Kumar, Khyanjeet Gogoi, J.M. Garg, Saroj Kasaju, efloraindia
Respected sir . The flowers that I have come across is pubescent on the upper edge of the lip. The extent of pubescence is differing across the flowers .
Regards,
Madhusudhan Khanal 

J.M. Garg

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Aug 6, 2022, 3:17:27 AM (10 days ago) Aug 6
to Madhusudhan Khanal, Pankaj Kumar, Khyanjeet Gogoi, Saroj Kasaju, efloraindia
Also see 
Additions to the orchid flora of Peninsular India- Kaliamoorthy S. & T.S. Saravanan- Vol. 29(4): 319–322 (2019) (Abstract: Oberonia maxima C.S.P.Parish ex Hook.f., and Thrixspermum formosanum (Hayata) Schltr., so far known from northeast India, are reported here for the first time from Tamil Nadu, Peninsular India. Detailed descriptions and photographs are provided for easy identification.)  
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With regards,
J.M.Garg

J.M. Garg

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Aug 6, 2022, 3:27:56 AM (10 days ago) Aug 6
to efloraofindia
Thanks, Madhusudan ji

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Madhusudhan Khanal <mkhanal....@sikkimuniversity.ac.in>
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2022 at 12:07
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:428515] Requesting I'd confirmation of Thrixspermum formosanum (Orchidaceae)
To: Khyanjeet Gogoi <khyanje...@gmail.com>
Cc: Pankaj Kumar <sahani...@gmail.com>, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>, Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>, efloraindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>


Attached more pictures of the plant with flowers. The flowers are exact similar with the plants you posted. I also have gone through your publication and the characters matches perfectly with it. Kindly have a look at it once. Thank you.
Regards,
Madhusudhan Khanal 



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With regards,
J.M.Garg
IMG_20220722_164635 cr.jpg
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