Mystery shrub seen in Scotland

[PlantaholicSheila]

Glendoick gardens near Perth and Dundee, Scotland. are only open in April and May to the public.

The garden is the home of the COX family. 3 x generations of plant hunters.

They specialise in Rhododendrons but have other unusual shrubs.

Now owned by Kenneth Cox, who runs the busy garden centre.

I first noticed this shrub on 11th April 2024.

2 shrubs together. 

Appeared to be evergreen.

One with tiny 4 petal flowers,  one with brown bits...female and male on sepperate bushes?

At first I thought it was Euonymus...but leaves are alternate.

I have since popped back a few times to add more images.

It formed white berries...not round.

Please does any one here recognise it.

Many thanks as always for your expert help.

Cheers

Sheila.

[PlantaholicSheila]

Apologies ..my pics were in date order but now appear above completely muddled.

[PlantaholicSheila]

Bump.

Please can someone edit my post to make the  title bold and dark ..as other threads.

This poor heading is not attracting any response.

Thanks.

Sheila.

[Saroj Kasaju]

Acronychia. ??

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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[PlantaholicSheila]

Sir, Many thanks for looking and your suggestion of Acronychia.

This a new plant for me  so have tried to do my research.

Sadly I  do not think it is a match.

Acronychia leaves are opposite.  Mystery shrub has alternate leaves ....   see image below.

 Acronychia the flowers are bisexual, with four sepals, four petals and eight stamens.  

Mystery plant only has 4 stamen.

I think there may be 2 shrubs one was female, the 2nd next to it  sadly the flowers were over brown and wilted...maybe the male.

Acronychia seeds are black. mystery plant seeds were white...see image below

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronychia

 

[J.M. Garg]

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 at 12:13
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:467885] Mystery shrub seen in Scotland
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: <hj....@tiscali.co.uk>, Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Thanks, Sheila ji.

Pl. try Gaultheria and Gymnosporia

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J.M.Garg

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

[PlantaholicSheila]

Thank you for looking sir and for your  two suggestions.

I do not think that it can be Gaultheria...as I do not believe that  the flowers are right for Ericaceae.

Quote wiki....

"Gaultheria is a genus of about 283 species of shrubs in the family Ericaceae.

I will check out   Gymnosporia

[J.M. Garg]

Can you post high res. images of these two images as details are not clearly seen here?

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[PlantaholicSheila]

[PlantaholicSheila]

Hope this helps.

It will only allow one large pic at a time.

On the small images above ..if I tap on them they go to full size.

Does that not happen for others?

Hope 2 new large pics showing the flowers  help.

[PlantaholicSheila]

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Sheila ji.

Pl. try Ilex like

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A.aquif-flor_fem._-_7.jpg

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[PlantaholicSheila]

[PlantaholicSheila]

I have added 2 more pics to show the seed capsule.

I have never seen any Ilex sp...common name Holly with berries in 4 parts.

Flowers are nothing like the Ilex aquifolium link you added.

Sorry.

Thank you for looking.

Sheila

[Saroj Kasaju]

https://www.gbif.org/species/5414222

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/ada2300e-0329-46e1-aee2-88bc77785ea6n%40googlegroups.com.

[PlantaholicSheila]

[PlantaholicSheila]

Saroj Kasaju

Thank you for the images of Ilex aquilifolium...a very common tree in UK. 

I know it well.

Nothing is a match..not the flowers, leaves or berries.

The seed capsules are very very different to most plants they are not round but are in 4 segments. Rather like Euonymus.

[Saroj Kasaju]

Yes .

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/dd73a2c4-3a2c-465d-9888-659ab6a7f041n%40googlegroups.com.

[J.M. Garg]

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Ponnutheerthagiri Santhan <ponsa...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 at 14:33
Subject: Re: [itpmods:18345] Fwd: [efloraofindia:467885] Mystery shrub seen in Scotland
To: <itp...@googlegroups.com>

Related to Ternstromiaceae, tea family.

On Sun, 25 Aug 2024, 3:48 pm J.M. Garg, <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2024 at 15:37
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:467885] Mystery shrub seen in Scotland
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>, <hj....@tiscali.co.uk>

Forwarding again for Id assistance please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

Acronychia. ?? Thank you. Saroj Kasaju

Sir, Many thanks for looking and your suggestion of Acronychia.

This a new plant for me so have tried to do my research. Sadly I  do not think it is a match. Acronychia leaves are opposite. Mystery shrub has alternate leaves ....  see image below. Acronychia the flowers are bisexual, with four sepals, four petals and eight stamens.   Mystery plant only has 4 stamen. I think there may be 2 shrubs one was female, the 2nd next to it  sadly the flowers were over brown and wilted...maybe the male. Acronychia seeds are black. mystery plant seeds were white...see image below

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronychia - from Sheila ji

Thanks, Sheila ji. Pl. try Gaultheria and Gymnosporia- from me

Thank you for looking sir and for your two suggestions. I do not think that it can be Gaultheria...as I do not believe that  the flowers are right for Ericaceae. Quote wiki.... "Gaultheria is a genus of about 283 species of shrubs in the family Ericaceae.

I will check out Gymnosporia - from Sheila ji

Pl. try Ilex like https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A.aquif-flor_fem._-_7.jpg- from me

I have added 2 more pics to show the seed capsule. I have never seen any Ilex sp...common name Holly with berries in 4 parts. Flowers are nothing like the Ilex aquifolium link you added. Sorry. Thank you for looking. Sheila

https://www.gbif.org/species/5414222 Thank you. Saroj Kasaju

Thank you for the images of Ilex aquilifolium...a very common tree in UK.  I know it well. Nothing is a match..not the flowers, leaves or berries.

The seed capsules are very very different to most plants they are not round but are in 4 segments. Rather like Euonymus. - from Sheila ji

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2024 at 15:32
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:467885] Mystery shrub seen in Scotland

To: itpmods <itp...@googlegroups.com>

Any idea about the family or genus?

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: 'PlantaholicSheila' via eFloraofIndia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 14:13
Subject: [efloraofindia:467885] Mystery shrub seen in Scotland
To: eFloraofIndia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

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With regards,
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[PlantaholicSheila]

From: Ponnutheerthagiri Santhan <ponsa...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 at 14:33
Subject: Re: [itpmods:18345] Fwd: [efloraofindia:467885] Mystery shrub seen in Scotland
To: <itp...@googlegroups.com>

Related to Ternstromiaceae, tea family.

Interesting.

Thank you for your suggestion Ponnutheerthagiri Santhan 

I have never heard of Ternstromiaceae before...forgive my ignorance.

I have looked it up and found this...."Trees and Shrubs online."

https://www.treesandshrubsonline.org/articles/ternstroemia/

https://www.treesandshrubsonline.org/articles/ternstroemia/

According to the link above they seems too have 5 petals and multiple stamens...I believe that this rules it out.

[J.M. Garg]

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With regards,
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With regards,
J.M.Garg

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

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With regards,
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[navendu page]

Perhaps it could be a species of Ilex!

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Navendu Page, PhD

Scientist

Thackeray Wildlife Foundation

Ph: +91 9611053510

[PlantaholicSheila]

Thank you for looking.

Yes Ilex is a possibility as it has tiny flowers with 4 petals.

However, I have never seen any  Holly where the berries that start white, then go blush pink and finally red.

Not any Ilex with berries that are not round.

Below are the latest and last pics I took on 22nd August.

Very few berries remained.

The shrub was again flowering. 

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Sheila ji.

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[PlantaholicSheila]

Mystery solved!

After all this time I now know this is Ilex delaveyi.

The RHS came up trumps with very full answer.

Cannot copy and paste full reply so have added a photo of their most helpful message.

[Saroj Kasaju]

That is great news. https://ppbc.iplant.cn/sp/21617

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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[PlantaholicSheila]

Many thanks  Saroj Kasaju  for interesting link.

Leaves and flowers look exactly like my pics.

I am thrilled to have taken pics of the berries from white to ripe and red.

Hardly any pics on www of Ilex delaveyi.

Maybe one day it will be propagated for gardeners/plant lovers to grow.

Kind wishes from bonnie Scotland. UK.

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Sheila ji.

I was the 1st who suggested Ilex initially. 

I am happy that it is resolved now by you. 

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/db48222e-a7dc-4519-bd1f-72c26172dc6dn%40googlegroups.com.

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

[Saroj Kasaju]

I found it very interesting. This has got distribution in Nepal at 3000m, but

eflora China gave its range at 2000-3700m.

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242326219

Surprisingly there is not a single picture in the Net except for one herbarium image.

Enclosing the link for more herbarium images: https://www.gbif.org/species/7316005

By the way, full credit goes to Mr. Garg for hinting the genus.

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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[PlantaholicSheila]

I am reposting these pics again....now fully labelled as Ilex delaveyi in the hope others may find then on www in the future.

I cannot doubt RHS, but still wonder what makes this ILEX as opposed to say a Euonymus with alternate leaves.

What actually makes ILEX Ilex?

The berry is like no other Holly I know.

I wonder if DNA testing were to be done on it, might  it even be renamed as a new genus ..who knows!

[PlantaholicSheila]

Seems it has already been checked...not that I understand anything on link below.

Well above my pay grade!

https://bmcgenomics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12864-022-08397-9

[PlantaholicSheila]

All above pics mis spelt.

Now corrected to......

ILEX  DELAVAYI