Mystery shrub seen in Scotland

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PlantaholicSheila

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Jul 31, 2024, 4:43:35 AMJul 31
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Glendoick gardens near Perth and Dundee, Scotland. are only open in April and May to the public.
The garden is the home of the COX family. 3 x generations of plant hunters.
They specialise in Rhododendrons but have other unusual shrubs.
Now owned by Kenneth Cox, who runs the busy garden centre.

I first noticed this shrub on 11th April 2024.
2 shrubs together. 
Appeared to be evergreen.
One with tiny 4 petal flowers,  one with brown bits...female and male on sepperate bushes?
At first I thought it was Euonymus...but leaves are alternate.
I have since popped back a few times to add more images.
It formed white berries...not round.

Please does any one here recognise it.
Many thanks as always for your expert help.
Cheers
Sheila.
000 MYSTERY PLANT 11-04-2024 11-01-26.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT GLENDOICK 03-05-2024 14-28-53.JPG
000 MYSTERY 30-07-2024 14-22-36.JPG
000 MYSTERY 30-07-2024 14-24-44.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 08-06-2024 16-52-42.JPG
000 MYSTERY 30-07-2024 14-22-18.JPG
000 MYSTERY 30-07-2024 14-20-51.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 08-06-2024 16-53-00.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 11-04-2024 11-01-37.JPG
000 MYSTERY 30-07-2024 14-21-41.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 08-06-2024 16-52-33.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 11-04-2024 11-00-48.JPG
000 MYSTERY 30-07-2024 14-22-04.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 11-04-2024 11-00-25.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 08-06-2024 16-53-59.JPG
000 MYSTERY 30-07-2024 14-23-18.JPG
000 MYSTERY 30-07-2024 14-20-30.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 08-06-2024 16-53-13.JPG

PlantaholicSheila

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Jul 31, 2024, 4:47:14 AMJul 31
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Apologies ..my pics were in date order but now appear above completely muddled.

PlantaholicSheila

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Aug 6, 2024, 4:31:50 AMAug 6
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Bump.

Please can someone edit my post to make the  title bold and dark ..as other threads.
This poor heading is not attracting any response.
Thanks.
Sheila.

Saroj Kasaju

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Aug 6, 2024, 4:46:49 AMAug 6
to indian...@googlegroups.com, PlantaholicSheila, J.M. Garg
Acronychia. ??
Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju


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PlantaholicSheila

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Aug 8, 2024, 7:39:43 AMAug 8
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Sir, Many thanks for looking and your suggestion of Acronychia.
This a new plant for me  so have tried to do my research.
Sadly I  do not think it is a match.

Acronychia leaves are opposite.  Mystery shrub has alternate leaves ....   see image below.
 Acronychia the flowers are bisexual, with four sepals, four petals and eight stamens.  
Mystery plant only has 4 stamen.
I think there may be 2 shrubs one was female, the 2nd next to it  sadly the flowers were over brown and wilted...maybe the male.
Acronychia seeds are black. mystery plant seeds were white...see image below




000  MYSTERY   SHRUB 30-07-2024 14-21-41.JPG
000  MYSTERY   SHRUB 11-04-2024 11-00-25.JPG 

J.M. Garg

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Aug 17, 2024, 2:56:11 AMAug 17
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---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 at 12:13
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:467885] Mystery shrub seen in Scotland
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: <hj....@tiscali.co.uk>, Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>


Thanks, Sheila ji.
Pl. try Gaultheria and Gymnosporia

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With regards,
J.M.Garg


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With regards,
J.M.Garg
000 MYSTERY PLANT 11-04-2024 11-01-26.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT GLENDOICK 03-05-2024 14-28-53.JPG
000 MYSTERY 30-07-2024 14-22-36.JPG
000 MYSTERY 30-07-2024 14-24-44.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 08-06-2024 16-52-42.JPG
000 MYSTERY 30-07-2024 14-22-18.JPG
000 MYSTERY 30-07-2024 14-20-51.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 08-06-2024 16-53-00.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 11-04-2024 11-01-37.JPG
000 MYSTERY 30-07-2024 14-21-41.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 08-06-2024 16-52-33.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 11-04-2024 11-00-48.JPG
000 MYSTERY 30-07-2024 14-22-04.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 11-04-2024 11-00-25.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 08-06-2024 16-53-59.JPG
000 MYSTERY 30-07-2024 14-23-18.JPG
000 MYSTERY 30-07-2024 14-20-30.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 08-06-2024 16-53-13.JPG

PlantaholicSheila

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Aug 17, 2024, 3:56:40 AMAug 17
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Thank you for looking sir and for your  two suggestions.
I do not think that it can be Gaultheria...as I do not believe that  the flowers are right for Ericaceae.
Quote wiki....
"Gaultheria is a genus of about 283 species of shrubs in the family Ericaceae.

I will check out   Gymnosporia

000 MYSTERY SHRUB 11-04-2024 11-00-25.JPG
000 MYSTERY SHRUB 11-04-2024 11-00-48.JPG

J.M. Garg

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Aug 17, 2024, 5:05:31 AMAug 17
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Can you post high res. images of these two images as details are not clearly seen here?

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PlantaholicSheila

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Aug 17, 2024, 6:08:08 AMAug 17
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000  MYSTERY   SHRUB 11-04-2024 11-00-25.JPG

PlantaholicSheila

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Aug 17, 2024, 6:12:45 AMAug 17
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Hope this helps.
It will only allow one large pic at a time.
On the small images above ..if I tap on them they go to full size.
Does that not happen for others?
Hope 2 new large pics showing the flowers  help.000  MYSTERY   SHRUB 11-04-2024 11-00-48.JPG

PlantaholicSheila

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Aug 17, 2024, 6:15:14 AMAug 17
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000  MYSTERY   SHRUB 11-04-2024 11-00-25.JPG

J.M. Garg

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Aug 17, 2024, 7:55:32 AMAug 17
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PlantaholicSheila

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Aug 17, 2024, 8:06:58 AMAug 17
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000  MYSTERY   SHRUB 08-06-2024 16-53-59.JPG

PlantaholicSheila

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Aug 17, 2024, 8:11:42 AMAug 17
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000  MYSTERY   SHRUB 30-07-2024 14-23-18.JPG
I have added 2 more pics to show the seed capsule.
I have never seen any Ilex sp...common name Holly with berries in 4 parts.
Flowers are nothing like the Ilex aquifolium link you added.
Sorry.
Thank you for looking.
Sheila

Saroj Kasaju

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Aug 17, 2024, 8:13:01 AMAug 17
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PlantaholicSheila

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Aug 17, 2024, 8:13:07 AMAug 17
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000  MYSTERY   SHRUB 08-06-2024 16-53-59.JPG

PlantaholicSheila

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Aug 17, 2024, 8:25:05 AMAug 17
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Saroj Kasaju

Thank you for the images of Ilex aquilifolium...a very common tree in UK. 
I know it well.
Nothing is a match..not the flowers, leaves or berries.
The seed capsules are very very different to most plants they are not round but are in 4 segments. Rather like Euonymus.

Saroj Kasaju

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Aug 17, 2024, 8:30:01 AMAug 17
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Yes .
Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju


J.M. Garg

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Aug 26, 2024, 7:25:33 AMAug 26
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---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Ponnutheerthagiri Santhan <ponsa...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 at 14:33
Subject: Re: [itpmods:18345] Fwd: [efloraofindia:467885] Mystery shrub seen in Scotland
To: <itp...@googlegroups.com>


Related to Ternstromiaceae, tea family.


On Sun, 25 Aug 2024, 3:48 pm J.M. Garg, <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2024 at 15:37
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:467885] Mystery shrub seen in Scotland
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>


Forwarding again for Id assistance please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

Acronychia. ??
Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju 

Sir, Many thanks for looking and your suggestion of Acronychia.
This a new plant for me so have tried to do my research.
Sadly I  do not think it is a match.
Acronychia leaves are opposite. Mystery shrub has alternate leaves ....  see image below.
Acronychia the flowers are bisexual, with four sepals, four petals and eight stamens.  
Mystery plant only has 4 stamen.
I think there may be 2 shrubs one was female, the 2nd next to it  sadly the flowers were over brown and wilted...maybe the male.
Acronychia seeds are black. mystery plant seeds were white...see image below

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronychia - from Sheila ji

Thanks, Sheila ji.

Pl. try Gaultheria and Gymnosporia- from me 

Thank you for looking sir and for your two suggestions.
I do not think that it can be Gaultheria...as I do not believe that  the flowers are right for Ericaceae.
Quote wiki....
"Gaultheria is a genus of about 283 species of shrubs in the family Ericaceae.

I will check out Gymnosporia - from Sheila ji

Pl. try Ilex like

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A.aquif-flor_fem._-_7.jpg- from me 

I have added 2 more pics to show the seed capsule.
I have never seen any Ilex sp...common name Holly with berries in 4 parts.
Flowers are nothing like the Ilex aquifolium link you added.
Sorry.
Thank you for looking.

Sheila 

https://www.gbif.org/species/5414222
Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju 

Thank you for the images of Ilex aquilifolium...a very common tree in UK. 
I know it well.
Nothing is a match..not the flowers, leaves or berries.

The seed capsules are very very different to most plants they are not round but are in 4 segments. Rather like Euonymus. - from Sheila ji


---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2024 at 15:32
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:467885] Mystery shrub seen in Scotland


Any idea about the family or genus?

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: 'PlantaholicSheila' via eFloraofIndia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 14:13
Subject: [efloraofindia:467885] Mystery shrub seen in Scotland
To: eFloraofIndia <indian...@googlegroups.com>


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PlantaholicSheila

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Aug 26, 2024, 3:27:10 PMAug 26
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From: Ponnutheerthagiri Santhan <ponsa...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 at 14:33
Subject: Re: [itpmods:18345] Fwd: [efloraofindia:467885] Mystery shrub seen in Scotland
To: <itp...@googlegroups.com>


Related to Ternstromiaceae, tea family.


Interesting.

Thank you for your suggestion Ponnutheerthagiri Santhan 

I have never heard of Ternstromiaceae before...forgive my ignorance.

I have looked it up and found this...."Trees and Shrubs online."

https://www.treesandshrubsonline.org/articles/ternstroemia/


https://www.treesandshrubsonline.org/articles/ternstroemia/

According to the link above they seems too have 5 petals and multiple stamens...I believe that this rules it out.

J.M. Garg

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Sep 7, 2024, 11:22:12 AMSep 7
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000 MYSTERY PLANT 11-04-2024 11-01-26.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT GLENDOICK 03-05-2024 14-28-53.JPG
000 MYSTERY 30-07-2024 14-22-36.JPG
000 MYSTERY 30-07-2024 14-24-44.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 08-06-2024 16-52-42.JPG
000 MYSTERY 30-07-2024 14-22-18.JPG
000 MYSTERY 30-07-2024 14-20-51.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 08-06-2024 16-53-00.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 11-04-2024 11-01-37.JPG
000 MYSTERY 30-07-2024 14-21-41.JPG
000 MYSTERY SHRUB 11-04-2024 11-00-48 rs.jpg
000 MYSTERY PLANT 08-06-2024 16-52-33.JPG
000 MYSTERY SHRUB 30-07-2024 14-23-18 rs.jpg
000 MYSTERY SHRUB 11-04-2024 11-00-25 rs.jpg
000 MYSTERY SHRUB 08-06-2024 16-53-59.jpg
000 MYSTERY PLANT 11-04-2024 11-00-48.JPG
000 MYSTERY 30-07-2024 14-22-04.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 11-04-2024 11-00-25.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 08-06-2024 16-53-59.JPG
000 MYSTERY 30-07-2024 14-23-18.JPG
000 MYSTERY 30-07-2024 14-20-30.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 08-06-2024 16-53-13.JPG

navendu page

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Sep 8, 2024, 8:14:15 AMSep 8
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia
Perhaps it could be a species of Ilex!
--
Navendu Page, PhD

Scientist
Thackeray Wildlife Foundation

PlantaholicSheila

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Sep 8, 2024, 8:27:48 AMSep 8
to eFloraofIndia
Thank you for looking.
Yes Ilex is a possibility as it has tiny flowers with 4 petals.
However, I have never seen any  Holly where the berries that start white, then go blush pink and finally red.
Not any Ilex with berries that are not round.
Below are the latest and last pics I took on 22nd August.
Very few berries remained.
The shrub was again flowering. 

000 MYSTERY PLANT 22-08-2024 15-37-22.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 22-08-2024 15-38-16.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 22-08-2024 15-38-018.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 22-08-2024 15-38-33.JPG
000 MYSTERY PLANT 22-08-2024 15-37-023.JPG

J.M. Garg

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Sep 8, 2024, 12:17:15 PMSep 8