Cayratia tenuifolia (Wight & Arn.) Gagnep.

[Samir Mehta]

@ Koraigad, 09-08-2014 with Dinesh ji.

The 5 foliate leaves (-39), the short, conical stigma (-44), the 4 lobed disc and 4 merous flowers are clearly seen. The longer petiolule of the terminal leaflet (-39) is also appreciated. The leaf opposed tendril is also seen.
However, in my specimen the leaves are a bit broader (they are classically described as 'lanceolate'). Plant was not fruiting.

This species, I believe, has not been positively identified earlier and is not there in the eFI database (do not see it on FOI either).

Regards,

Samir Mehta

[Samir Mehta]

In addition, the plant was glabrous.

SM

[Satish Phadke]

Good find.

Dr Satish Phadke

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[Samir Mehta]

Thank Dinesh ji, Dr. Mehta.

[radha veach]

Dear Samir,

this looks interesting.
Do you have more pictures of the leaves?  I'd be interested to see the petiole and the underside of the leaflets if possible.  thanks

regards
Radha

[Samir Mehta]

Dear Radha,

I am having some problems at my end and am unable to access the device on which I store images.
The underside of the leaflets were glabrous (as was the rest of the plant).
Please tell me which characteristic of  the petiole you are looking for and I will choose the image which shows the characteristic clearly (will take a few days as we are going to be away from the city).

Regards,

Samir

[radha veach]

Hi Samir,

I looked this plant up in Talbot and it mentions the leaves being pedately 5-foliate so I just wanted to see that in a photo.(it would be distinct from digitately 5 foliate as in some other species such as Vitis elongata)
No hurry!  Whenever you have time.

regards
Radha

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 7:22:04 PM UTC+5:30, Samir Mehta wrote:

[Dinesh Valke]

Thanks Samir and Radha for discussing this plant. I remember sometime back Satish (Phadke) ji had posted similar plant.

I was with Samir ji at base of Koraigad near Ambavane.

Let me add a cropped version of one of my photo showing petiole partly and the stalks of leaflets; hope it helps.
I got to this post trying to find Cissus pedata in our group's database.

Regards.
Dinesh

[radha veach]

Thanks for this picture, Dinesh.

It looks to me as if the petioles of the leaflets all arise from the same point so I'm not sure that would count as  pedately 5-foliate.
Another thing is that Talbot tells us that in C. tenuifolia the leaflets are strongly serrate-dentate and here the serratures are bristle tipped but not so dentate. It is supposed to be a "distinct species"

It would be interesting to hear from experts on this genus.

regards
Radha



On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 7:22:04 PM UTC+5:30, Samir Mehta wrote:

[Dinesh Valke]

Thanks Radha for the analysis. Will wait for validating comments.

Regards.

Dinesh

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[Satish Phadke]

Interesting. Would like to follow the discussion.

Dr Satish Phadke

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[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for Id confirmation or otherwise please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

In addition, the plant was glabrous. SM

this looks interesting.

Do you have more pictures of the leaves?  I'd be interested to see the petiole and the underside of the leaflets if possible.  thanks regards Radha

I looked this plant up in Talbot and it mentions the leaves being pedately 5-foliate so I just wanted to see that in a photo.(it would be distinct from digitately 5 foliate as in some other species such as Vitis elongata)

No hurry!  Whenever you have time. regards Radha

Thanks Samir and Radha for discussing this plant. I remember sometime back Satish (Phadke) ji had posted similar plant.

I was with Samir ji at base of Koraigad near Ambavane.

Let me add a cropped version of one of my photo showing petiole partly and the stalks of leaflets; hope it helps. I got to this post trying to find Cissus pedata in our group's database.

Regards. Dinesh

Thanks for this picture, Dinesh. It looks to me as if the petioles of the leaflets all arise from the same point so I'm not sure that would count as  pedately 5-foliate. Another thing is that Talbot tells us that in C. tenuifolia the leaflets are strongly serrate-dentate and here the serratures are bristle tipped but not so dentate. It is supposed to be a "distinct species" It would be interesting to hear from experts on this genus. regards Radha

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[Samir Mehta]

Thank You for re-cycling the post Jagmohan ji.

I had written to a couple of experts but have received no reply as yet.

Another person who is an enthusiast and whom I respect felt it was Vitis pedata.

My own view now is that this is Cissus elongata (formerly Vitis elongata), as suggested by Radha, for the following reasons:

Leaf is digitate / palmate and not pedate. In both Cayratia (pedata and tenuifolia) leaves are pedate.

Inflorescence is leaf opposed - this favors Cissus sp.

Plant was glabrous, Vitis / Cayratia pedata is a hairy plant.

I have had a look at some other similar posts on the group and will share my views on the respective threads.

Many thanks to Radha, Dinesh ji and Satish ji for their views and participation in the thread.

Regards,

Samir Mehta

[Dinesh Valke]

Thank you very very much Samir ji for the analysis and reaching to ID. Many thanks to Radha too.

Regards.

Dinesh

[radha veach]

Dear everyone,

I am not sure about the plant being Cissus elongata. That plant often has trifoliate leaves as well and the young parts are often tinged with purple. I suppose it could be a variable species.

It would be great if Samir and Dinesh could return to collect fruits for more confirmation.

Thank you Samir for posting this plant and for an interesting discussion.

regards
Radha