SK280DEC28-2016:ID

[Saroj Kasaju]

Dear members 

Location: Nagarkot, Nepal 

Altitude: 7000 ft.

Date: 28 December 2016

Clematis... ????

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[D.S Rawat]

Seems to be a mix of several species. Separate posting will be better.
DSRawat Pantnagar

[chrischa...@btinternet.com]

Dear Saroj

Dr Rawat is correct you have posted a mixture of species belonging to both different genera and families.

Nos 0890, 0891, 0762, 0763, 0764, 0765, 0766, 0767 are definitely of a Clematis in fruit.  I intend to inspect these images further when I can and

suggest which species is most likely.

[Saroj Kasaju]

Please ignore thus mail ! How come different images included .

Sorry for the inconvenience !

[Saroj Kasaju]

Dear members 

Location: Nagarkot, Nepal 

Altitude: 7000 ft.

Date: 28 December 2016

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[Saroj Kasaju]

Thank you Vijgiri JI ! 

Clematis javana DC. (accepted name) 

Clematis gouriana Roxb. (synonym)

Nepali Names : जुंगॆ लहरा Junge Laharaa

Please ignore images of other plants .

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 8:11 PM, Dinesh Vijigiri <vijigir...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sir it may be Clematis heynei or C. gouriyana

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[chrischa...@btinternet.com]

Dear Saroj

It is nice to have more than just one or two images of a Clematis (and all other genera) to inspect but most of the 8 images taken are similar, revealing much the same information. PLEASE on future occasions with Clematis at the fruiting stage, can you take close-ups of the foliage including the undersides of the leaves.

It is always much harder to be sure about an identification at the fruiting stage as often reference images are few-and-far-between.

The suggestion of C.heynei does not fit given its known distribution in S.India - as far as I know it has not been recorded from Nepal.

It is known as the 'Deccan Clematis' on the 'Flowers of India' site.

Let us consider Clematis gouriana.

'Flora of Kathmandu Valley' lists 9 species of Clematis including Clematis gouriana which they recorded from 1667-2121m below Phulchoki. Using

their key C.gouriana is a possible species but I do not rely upon keys ONLY and one must ALWAYS wonder as to how reliable the information in Floras

is.  It seems that CURRENTLY the accepted name for what was known as C.gouriana Roxb. ex DC is now Clematis javana.

They assign the local name of 'Junge lahara' to C.gouriana AND other Clematis incl. C.buchananiana and C.montana.

They say C.gouriana is common in mixed forest flowering and fruiting in November.   Yet 'Enumeration of the Flowering Plants of Nepal' gives an

altitudinal distribution of 500-1600m.   So I cannot but wonder IF the Clematis below Phulchoki really is C.gouriana?   It MIGHT be.

Flora of Bhutan lists C.gouriana DC. on shrubs at margins of subtropical and warm broad-leaves forests @ 150-2000m flowering October to November

in both Bhutan and Sikkim. 

Stewart recorded C.gouriana from N.Pakistan in the foothill zone to 1200m.

Flora Simlensis records C.gouriana from valleys below Shimla and hilly districts throughout India @ 300-900m plus Java and the Philippines.

At present I am uncertain how to distinguish, particularly at the fruiting stage and without close-up images, between C.javana and similar species.

I have a copy of 'Clematis' by S.L.Kapoor (Flowering Plants of India, Bulletin of the National Botanic Gardens, No. 124, 1966).  The author gives a distribution from NW Himalaya to Assam and in S.India at 305-2440m.

He observes that this species is highly variable with regard to the shape, texture, venation and indumentum of the leaflets.  Apparently specimens from what was Burma approach the leaflets of C.javana....

C.triloba Heyne (now a synonym of C.heynei) is described by Kapoor.

Given my criticism of some works, I have found Kapoor's efforts  of value - extensive and thorough.  He examined a lot of herbarium specimens, appears to comment about each Clematis known from India at that time, in a way one can have confidence in.  His written descriptions and the line drawings seem of a high standard

On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 at 5:06:36 PM UTC, Saroj Kumar Kasaju wrote:

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks,  Chadwell ji