SK901 20 DEC-2017:ID

[Saroj Kasaju]

Dear Members,

Location: Nagarkot, Nepal  

Date: 12 December 2017

Altitude: 6800 ft.

Clematis ... !  ???

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[Kanhaiya Lal Chaudhary]

That is Clematis sp fruiting.

[chrischa...@btinternet.com]

Dear Saroj

You certainly like to make it difficult to identify a plant.  You have ignored what I advised about taking many more images per specimen of a range of parts of the plant, which would greatly help the identification process, providing a reference for future users of efI.  You only photographed the fruits of this Clematis plus a leaflet (albeit an underneath shot as well) but not leaf nor base of leaves where they meet stem nor habit, nor habitat..  It is like being asked to say what is the picture in a jigsaw puzzle, with most of the important pieces missing.

How can I help, when my advice is not followed?  I have been ignored/dismissed.

I have repeated my advice many times. Why should I continue?  I bang my head against a brick-wall......

I but not many others, could probably come up with a likely identification of this Clematis from just what you have provided but why should I go to all the effort and trouble, when you will not set an example for others to follow?  And continue to make it much more difficult and time-consuming.

It is quality not quantity which counts.  What is the good of being the 'largest' data-base of a particular category, if this data-base contains the 'largest' number of misidentified species?

Without a strictly limited number of individuals like myself, with unique knowledge either of genera or regional floras, efI will continue to be littered with misidentified images.

I have spent (and largely wasted) more than 30 years building up what appears to be an-rivalled level of knowledge of Himalayan flora as a whole, particularly flora

of the NW Himalaya, yet despite "bending over backwards" offering to help, free-of-charge, Indian botanists, not one has shown any interest. I recollect approaching the then Director of the Botanical Survey of India (in the mid-1980s) offering to jointly collaborate with Indian botanists on an up-to-date flora for Ladakh - I was told that this was for 'Indian' botanists.  Well, I have patiently waited for more than 30 years, yet no such flora has been forthcoming. 

I worked hard, in serious ill-health, from September 2016 to March 2017, attempting to advise eFI, yet I was completely ignored (not to mention insulted by a senior figure).

We have an expression in the UK, "You can take a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink".  Senior figures in eFI are "in denial" - unwilling to listen.

It makes no sense for me to continue.   On 29th September Mr Garg posted:

Sh. Chris Chadwell - Thanks for his wonderful contributions. 

Dear members,

As and when I encounter his threads while updating efi site, it is a pleasant feeling to be associated with him for a while. It always reminds me of his wonderful contributions & guidance for building of efloraofindia.

I knew that he was in great pain and despite that he contributed a lot.

Although he is no longer with us, but his name will always remain etched in efloraofindia & in the memory of our members & others who get benefitted in future due to his contributions. 

When I first read this, sounding, if it had been posted in the UK, that I had actually "passed away" i.e. was dead, I smiled and noted the complimentary comments. Perhaps it would be like reading an obituary or words read at a funeral, which are always positive. Were they really meant?  The telling fact is that not one member posted as a follow-up.  It would be reasonable to conclude that efI as a whole would prefer I did 'depart'.  The only smart course of action for me is to comply with this sentiment.

FAIR ENOUGH, eFI has chosen to throw away, not only the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to improve (which it urgently needs to) and move up to 'international' standards but even more.

I cannot beat those in denial.......  So this will be my final post.   What a waste.

--

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Chadwell ji.

You may have a different opinion what I personally think. In fact different members may have different opinions about what efi is ?

I can say at personal level that we are on a Wikipedia type work for efloraofindia. It certainly is littered with mistakes. We have many observations for a single species since we started more than 10 years ago. There may be many observations which are correct and may be many others which are not correct, under a single species. We are not botanists but a mixture of people from diverse backgrounds including a few from Botany background. Of course many experts/ knowledgeable individuals like you are coming forward to help us.

I can only say that we are improving year after year & it may even take another decade, when we can say that most of our observations are correct. But that does not mean that we should not move in a direction, we are moving in.

We do not ban postings (just because of incomplete observations) as sometimes incomplete observations may also have something in that or experts from the area may be able to identify them. If not properly identified, they remain like that unidentified. There is no harm. There are many instances when some members started like that, but later improved a lot with detailed postings. Members are our assets as are our experts, although we do not pay anything to them. What we can do is to encourage them for all their energy, money and time spent in this endvour.

Members are free to give the id if they can, based on their respective requirements of postings, knowledge etc. If one feels that information furnished in not sufficient, he can say so or not reply at all against that post. They many be other posts where there may be sufficient details for them to reply with confidence. 

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2800 members & 2,65,000 messages on 31.3.17) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 12,000 species & 2,50,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

[D.S Rawat]

Difficult to reach to any correct identity with these images; I understand Chadwell Ji is right in expressing his views for posting more images showing characteristic features.
However, I humbly disagree with his conclusion that eFI has no use being littered with misidentified images. Any database is not free of mistakes, misidentifications even though it is made by experts of the fields. The problems arise (like here) when we do not have proper images available and even though we expect identifications. I have many plants (images) unidentified in my collection but I usually do not upload them for Id with a casual approach "just have a try" because I understand that images available with me are not sufficient for showing required characteristics (since species/genus /family is unknown, I do not even know which characteristics are important in identification) and the other people (experts) have to toil hard to reach even to any tentative ID. Better not waste their valuable time.
Whenever a post with insufficient details comes I use to keep silent which is better than feeling hurt. Members cant be forced to follow posting guidelines.
Said post of Garg Ji (quoted by Chadwell Ji) was not embedded with the feeling as felt by Chadwell Ji; it was just to show that someone has left the group and it is a loss to us. It will still be a loss if he leaves now.
Since both gates (in and out) are always open to anyone interested, we appreciate whenever someone joins and contribute but we hardly criticize when someone leaves.
DSRawat Pantnagar 

[Saroj Kasaju]

Clematis buchananiana DC.??

https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/2452267571

https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/1576157761

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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