ID request from a newbie..

14 views
Skip to first unread message

Alok & Isabelle

unread,
Feb 11, 2011, 3:45:50 AM2/11/11
to indian...@googlegroups.com
Dear friends,
My first mail of request and I am asking help to ID the flower which got
me into studying wildflowers in Dalhousie (Chamba) HP.
Date/Time- May 2010

Location- Kalatope wildlife Sanctuary, Chamba dist. Himachal Pradesh,
India approx. 2400 mts altitude

Habitat- Wild

Plant Habit- Herb

Height/Length- approx. 2 feet

The other info can be better deduced from the pics
P.S.- My camera is not too good and I apologise for the quality of
photos.

--
Himalayan Village Education Trust
Village Khudgot,
P.O. Dalhousie
District Chamba
H.P. 176304, India
www.hive.interconnection.org
www.hivetrust.wordpress.com
http://mushroomobserver.org/observer/observations_by_user/2186

dscn4350b.jpg
dscn4353b.jpg

Gurcharan Singh

unread,
Feb 11, 2011, 5:21:12 AM2/11/11
to Alok & Isabelle, indian...@googlegroups.com
Looking at leaves it appears Corydalis (flower head reminds Trifolium). If flowers and leaves belong to the same plant, the closest match seems to be Corydalis cashmeriana (though inflorescence is more dense).


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

Na Bha

unread,
Feb 11, 2011, 6:24:37 AM2/11/11
to Gurcharan Singh, Alok & Isabelle, indian...@googlegroups.com
can it be Akelei (germanname) (Aquilegia)?

Alok

unread,
Feb 11, 2011, 7:48:16 AM2/11/11
to efloraofindia
both the 'corydalis' and columbine family had come to mind but crossed
them off as the flower does not match any features of these.. it IS
quite interesting... :)) and Gurcharan ji.. the leaves ARE of the same
plant.... it was found in a very remote part of the sanctuary.. we
call it 'the lost forest".
Thanks for your continued interest.. gives me heart to feel that we
may stumble across some clue..
Alok

Alok & Isabelle

unread,
Feb 12, 2011, 9:47:52 AM2/12/11
to Na Bha, Gurcharan Singh, indian...@googlegroups.com
YAHOO...!! It IS from the family {Akelei (german name)} Aquilegia...

I chanced upon a lost photograph from my archives of the seed pod and it
definitely reminds me of the columbine family... is it presumptuous of
me?? But to my limited knowledge it does indeed look like that... some
kind of a freak wild hybrid of a double columbine.. perhaps something
like Aquilegia vulgaris var stellata in blue..
Thanks for the inspiration...
Ecstatic..... :))
Alok
On Fri, 2011-02-11 at 12:24 +0100, Na Bha wrote:
> 

hivetrust.wordpress.com

double columbine.jpeg

Gurcharan Singh

unread,
Feb 12, 2011, 11:14:19 AM2/12/11
to Alok & Isabelle, Na Bha, indian...@googlegroups.com
Alok ji
This is turning out to be really interesting. Your this photograph clearly belongs to Ranunculaceae, either Delphinium or Aquilegia. But looking at the flowers especially in the second photograph, I am unable to decide whether it is a single flower (with numerous petals) or a cluster of flowers. In the second option I can see only single spur (Aquilegia should have five), but then calyx + corolla should have maximum 10 members. Here I see many.
    Perhaps some one will resolve the mystery.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

Na Bha

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 7:20:31 AM2/13/11
to Gurcharan Singh, Alok & Isabelle, indian...@googlegroups.com
Hallo Prof. Singh ji,
 
I feel that it is some sort of hybride. I have three diff. sorts  of Akelei in my garden, shall send fotos when they flower. At present there is snow everywhere.
I am not an expert, but my observation is that Delphinium  has just one Sporn (sorry, i don't know the english word for it. my translator suggested
spur, tailskid, tail wheel, ram, trail spade, whereas Akelei has many. In the second Foto i see many, so i suggested Akelei.
 
Again, I am NOT an expert.
 
Here are some links, where one can see fotos of Akelei.
 
 
Regards
Nalini

Alok

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 8:11:17 AM2/13/11
to efloraofindia
Dear Gurcharan ji,
As Nalini ji said Aquilegia vulgaris (var stellata) for example has
hybrid (double columbine) varieties... which seem similar in certain
characteristics... but to have it in a totally wild area... is
something strange... I do not know about hybrids.. can they develop on
their own?? You would have a better idea..
Regards
Alok

On Feb 12, 9:14 pm, Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Alok ji
> This is turning out to be really interesting. Your this photograph clearly
> belongs to Ranunculaceae, either Delphinium or Aquilegia. But looking at the
> flowers especially in the second photograph, I am unable to decide whether
> it is a single flower (with numerous petals) or a cluster of flowers. In the
> second option I can see only single spur (Aquilegia should have five), but
> then calyx + corolla should have maximum 10 members. Here I see many.
>     Perhaps some one will resolve the mystery.
>
> --
> Dr. Gurcharan Singh
> Retired  Associate Professor
> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
> Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

Pankaj Kumar

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 8:15:23 AM2/13/11
to Alok, efloraofindia
Hybrids can of course develop on their own specially if the species
concerned are cross pollinated in nature. Not a big deal about that.
Regards
Pankaj

--
***********************************************
"TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!"


Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae)
Research Associate
Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project
Department of Habitat Ecology
Wildlife Institute of India
Post Box # 18
Dehradun - 248001, India

Alok & Isabelle Mahendroo

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 8:23:26 AM2/13/11
to Pankaj Kumar, efloraofindia
Thank you Pankaj ji,
So this would seem to be a hybrid between columbine and delphenium varities!!
Since obviously it has traits of both of them... The part of this
forest where I found it did indeed have a lot of Columbine... but
Delphenium..... hmmmm.. don,t remember.....
regards
Alok

Alok & Isabelle Mahendroo

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 8:24:07 AM2/13/11
to Pankaj Kumar, efloraofindia
Thank you Pankaj ji,
So this would seem to be a hybrid between columbine and delphinium varieties!!

Since obviously it has traits of both of them... The part of this
forest where I found it did indeed have a lot of Columbine... but
Delphinium..... hmmmm.. don,t remember.....
regards
Alok

On 2/13/11, Pankaj Kumar <sahani...@gmail.com> wrote:

Gurcharan Singh

unread,
Mar 14, 2011, 6:38:36 AM3/14/11
to efloraofindia, Alok & Isabelle, nabha meghani, Dr. Pankaj Kumar
Resurfacing again for ID
Also attaching the photograph uploaded subsequently

Nabha ji had suggested it to be double hybrid columbine, but I don't see the four spurs characteristic of Aquilegia, nor do I see the stamens in centre generally seen in double columbine. An intergeneric hybrid between Delphinium and Aquilegia with well developed fruits, as seen in the third photograph would be too exciting, as it would necessitate a new generic name.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 
dscn4350b.jpg
dscn4353b.jpg
double columbine.jpeg

J.M. Garg

unread,
Jun 24, 2011, 1:34:08 AM6/24/11
to efloraofindia, sing...@gmail.com, tab...@gmail.com, sahani...@gmail.com, prajn...@gmail.com, parm...@sancharnet.in, amit...@gmail.com, alokis...@gmail.com, le...@rediffmail.com, rites...@gmail.com, dr_m...@yahoo.com, nabha meghani

Forwarding again for Id confirmation or otherwise please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

“can it be Akelei (germanname) (Aquilegia)?” from Nalini ji.

 

“I chanced upon a lost photograph from my archives of the seed pod and it


definitely reminds me of the columbine family... is it presumptuous of
me?? But to my limited knowledge it does indeed look like that... some
kind of a freak wild hybrid of a double columbine.. perhaps something
like Aquilegia vulgaris var stellata in blue..
Thanks for the inspiration...
Ecstatic..... :))

Alok”

 

“This is turning out to be really interesting. Your this photograph clearly belongs to Ranunculaceae, either Delphinium or Aquilegia. But looking at the flowers especially in the second photograph, I am unable to decide whether it is a single flower (with numerous petals) or a cluster of flowers. In the second option I can see only single spur (Aquilegia should have five), but then calyx + corolla should have maximum 10 members. Here I see many.” from Singh ji
 
"I feel that it is some sort of hybride. I have three diff. sorts  of Akelei in my garden, shall send fotos when they flower. At present there is snow everywhere.
I am not an expert, but my observation is that Delphinium  has just one Sporn (sorry, i don't know the english word for it. my translator suggested
spur, tailskid, tail wheel, ram, trail spade, whereas Akelei has many. In the second Foto i see many, so i suggested Akelei.
 Again, I am NOT an expert.
 Here are some links, where one can see fotos of Akelei.  
http://www.saatgut-vielfalt.de/saatgut/product.php?products_id=910810
http://www.pflanzenversand-gaissmayer.de/article_detail,Aquilegia+Vulgaris-Hybride+Christa+Barlow+-+Gefuellte+Akelei,79A49B76F9A540EFBB59F4033D651606,,de,SID.html
http://www.google.de/images?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&client=firefox-a&q=akelei&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=TchXTYC-NcjFswa--qylCw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=3&ved=0CFAQsAQwAg
Regards
Nalini"
 
"Nabha ji had suggested it to be double hybrid columbine, but I don't see the four spurs characteristic of Aquilegia, nor do I see the stamens in centre generally seen in double columbine. An intergeneric hybrid between Delphinium and Aquilegia with well developed fruits, as seen in the third photograph would be too exciting, as it would necessitate a new generic name." from Singh ji.
 


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Alok & Isabelle <alokis...@gmail.com>
Date: 11 February 2011 14:15
Subject: [efloraofindia:62534] ID request from a newbie..
To: indian...@googlegroups.com





--
'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg. You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.
For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group: http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix (more than 1600 members & 70,000 messages on 30/5/11) or Efloraofindia website: https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/ (with a species database of around 5000 species)

dscn4350b.jpg
dscn4353b.jpg

J.M. Garg

unread,
Sep 21, 2011, 1:34:46 AM9/21/11
to efloraofindia, sing...@gmail.com, tab...@gmail.com, sahani...@gmail.com, le...@rediffmail.com, rites...@gmail.com, dr_m...@yahoo.com, prajn...@gmail.com, mithuc...@gmail.com, A P, Alok Mahendroo, nabha meghani

Forwarding again for Id confirmation or otherwise please.
Some earlier relevant feedback:
“can it be Akelei (germanname) (Aquilegia)?”from Nalini ji.
 
“I chanced upon a lost photograph from my archives of the seed pod and it definitely reminds me of the columbine family... is it presumptuous of me?? But to my limited knowledge it does indeed look like that... some kind of a freak wild hybrid of a double columbine.. perhaps something like Aquilegia vulgaris var stellata in blue..
Thanks for the inspiration...
Ecstatic..... :)) Alok”
 
“This is turning out to be really interesting. Your this photograph clearly belongs to Ranunculaceae, either Delphinium or Aquilegia. But looking at the flowers especially in the second photograph, I am unable to decide whether it is a single flower (with numerous petals) or a cluster of flowers. In the second option I can see only single spur (Aquilegia should have five), but then calyx + corolla should have maximum 10 members. Here I see many.” from Singh ji
 
"I feel that it is some sort of hybride. I have three diff. sorts  of Akelei in my garden, shall send fotos when they flower. At present there is snow everywhere.
I am not an expert, but my observation is that Delphinium  has just one Sporn (sorry, i don't know the english word for it. my translator suggested
spur, tailskid, tail wheel, ram, trail spade, whereas Akelei has many. In the second Foto i see many, so i suggested Akelei.
 Again, I am NOT an expert.
 Here are some links, where one can see fotos of Akelei. 
http://www.saatgut-vielfalt.de/saatgut/product.php?products_id=910810
http://www.pflanzenversand-gaissmayer.de/article_detail,Aquilegia+Vulgaris-Hybride+Christa+Barlow+-+Gefuellte+Akelei,79A49B76F9A540EFBB59F4033D651606,,de,SID.html
http://www.google.de/images?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&client=firefox-a&q=akelei&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=TchXTYC-NcjFswa--qylCw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=3&ved=0CFAQsAQwAg
Regards
Nalini"
 
"Nabha ji had suggested it to be double hybrid columbine, but I don't see the four spurs characteristic of Aquilegia, nor do I see the stamens in centre generally seen in double columbine. An intergeneric hybrid between Delphinium and Aquilegia with well developed fruits, as seen in the third photograph would be too exciting, as it would necessitate a new generic name." from Singh ji.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Alok & Isabelle <alokis...@gmail.com>
Date: 11 February 2011 14:15
Subject: [efloraofindia:62534] ID request from a newbie..
To: indian...@googlegroups.com



--
'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg. You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.
For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group: http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix (more than 1700 members & 79,000 messages on 31/8/11) or Efloraofindia website: https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/ (with a species database of around 5500 species).
Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'. 

dscn4350b.jpg
dscn4353b.jpg

Alok Mahendroo

unread,
Sep 21, 2011, 2:10:48 AM9/21/11
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, sing...@gmail.com, tab...@gmail.com, sahani...@gmail.com, le...@rediffmail.com, rites...@gmail.com, dr_m...@yahoo.com, prajn...@gmail.com, mithuc...@gmail.com, A P, nabha meghani
Sir,
I did go to the same observation site this year and sadly did not happen
to see it this year.. maybe because of excessive rain this year and less
sunshine.. I cannot be certain...
But I have not given up on this as yet and will try again next season...
regards
ALok

www.hivetrust.wordpress.com
www.forwildlife.wordpress.com
http://mushroomobserver.org/observer/observations_by_user?_js=on&_new=true&id=2186

Saroj Kumar Kasaju

unread,
Nov 21, 2020, 6:35:06 AM11/21/20
to efloraofindia
Aquilegia vulgaris hybrids??
Thank you
Saroj Kasaju

JM Garg

unread,
Nov 22, 2020, 4:16:25 AM11/22/20
to indian...@googlegroups.com
dscn4350b.jpg
dscn4353b.jpg

J.M. Garg

unread,
Nov 23, 2020, 7:34:12 AM11/23/20
to efloraofindia, Isabelle & Alok, Saroj Kasaju
Any link ?
Leaves look different at Aquilegia vulgaris

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/93609e7c-0b18-440f-bdc0-0c4cb6ea8843n%40googlegroups.com.



--
With regards,
J.M.Garg

J.M. Garg

unread,
Nov 25, 2020, 11:14:41 AM11/25/20
to efloraofindia, Isabelle & Alok, Saroj Kasaju
Yes. May be a Aquilegia vulgaris hybrid as per discussions at Resurfacing my first Mail for id - Al061012
--
With regards,
J.M.Garg

Saroj Kasaju

unread,
Nov 25, 2020, 11:17:20 AM11/25/20
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Isabelle & Alok

Thank you Mr. Garg !

Saroj Kasaju

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages