Tree For ID - Horsely Hills, Andhra Pradesh - NW-2023-APR01

[nadeem waqif]

Kindly identify this medium sized tree with pink flowers photographed in Horsely Hills, Andhra Pradesh in April 2023. Leaves about 10 to 15 cm in length. Not my photos.

[Saroj Kasaju]

Ardisia elliptica Thunb. !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

On Sat, Apr 22, 2023 at 3:13 PM nadeem waqif <nadeem...@gmail.com> wrote:

Kindly identify this medium sized tree with pink flowers photographed in Horsely Hills, Andhra Pradesh in April 2023. Leaves about 10 to 15 cm in length. Not my photos.

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[Saroj Kasaju]

IT is Ok, however please verify the ID. 

Also keep efi and Mr. Garg in loop while replying .

Select"reply all".

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: nadeem waqif <nadeem...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Apr 22, 2023 at 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:446160] Tree For ID - Horsely Hills, Andhra Pradesh - NW-2023-APR01
To: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Thank you Sir. Wasn't expecting such a prompt reply!

[nadeem waqif]

my bad

[Paradesi Anjaneyulu]

Ardisia solanacea

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[Kumar Prabhat Das]

Ardisia solanacea

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[Saroj Kasaju]

Yes, it is the syn !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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[Paradesi Anjaneyulu]

No Saroj Ji 
Both are accepted names, there is a huge difference between two ; both species currently with me in live.

[Saroj Kasaju]

Yes Paradesi Ji . Only GBIF says it is the syn. Other links says differently.

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[J.M. Garg]

Flora of China gives the following keys:

38 (35)	Petiole canaliculate; flowers in corymbs or racemes.		(39)
+	Petiole marginate; flowers in umbels.		(40)
39 (38)	Leaf blade elliptic or oblanceolate, conspicuously black punctate-lineate abaxially, not prominently black punctate adaxially		10 Ardisia solanacea
+	Leaf blade linear or narrowly lanceolate, black punctate abaxially, prominently black punctate adaxially		11 Ardisia filiformis
40 (38)	Sepals rugose basally; leaf blade margin revolute		7 Ardisia elliptica
+	Sepals smooth or verruculose basally; leaf blade margin flat.		(41)

From the above, it appears both are really close. 

Flowers neither appear to be corymbs or raceme nor in umbel. 

How to decide?

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

[J.M. Garg]

Hi, Paradesi ji,

May I request you to let us know the differences between the two?

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

[Paradesi Anjaneyulu]

Very simple Garg Ji 
In the vegetative condition itself, we will identify both,

Leaves up to 30 cm long matured ones, young leaves  it self more than 10 cm, thick, broadly oblong-ovate....A solanacea

Leaves up to 10 cm long mature ones, young 2-3cm, thin, ovate ......A elliptica.

When comparing both sp,  Ardisia solanacea is double plant body then A elliptica entirely.

[J.M. Garg]

Pl. check:

https://efloraofindia.com/2011/02/07/ardisia/

On Sat, 22 Apr 2023 at 14:58, nadeem waqif <nadeem...@gmail.com> wrote:

Kindly identify this medium sized tree with pink flowers photographed in Horsely Hills, Andhra Pradesh in April 2023. Leaves about 10 to 15 cm in length. Not my photos.

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

[J.M. Garg]

eFlora of China says:
Ardisia solanacea Roxburgh: leaf blade elliptic or oblanceolate, 12-20 × 4-7 cm, papery, conspicuously black punctate and punctate-lineate abaxially, not prominently punctate adaxially, base cuneate or narrowly decurrent on petiole, margin subrevolute, entire, apex acute; lateral veins ca. 20 on each side of midrib, raised on both surfaces, marginal vein absent.
Ardisia elliptica Thunberg: leaf blade oblanceolate or obovate, 6-12(-16) × 3-5(-7) cm, subleathery, dull and densely punctate abaxially, especially along margin, base cuneate, margin revolute, entire, apex obtuse or acute; lateral veins 12-34 on each side of midrib, marginal vein present

But it is really difficult to judge the size of leaves from a photograph. 

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

[nadeem waqif]

Dear All,

Kindly note that the photographs were sent to me, i havent myself seen the live plant. Im assisting a young man who is making a native plant nursery to replant local species on the hill near his village in Madanapalle District, Andhra Pradesh. For some unknown reason, he is unwilling to directly engage with efloraofindia, tho i have showed how easy it is multiple number of times.

i have asked him to send me better pictures with better detail and more information on the dimensions when he is able to visit the location again with the purpose of collecting fruit and seeds for his nursery.

Im sorry that i cant help much in this endeavor to clarify Ardisia solanacea and A. elliptica at this point.

May i request Mr/Dr. Paradesi Anjaneyulu to upload pictures of the two specimens he has access to? The efloraofindia database doesnt have any pictures expressly of A. solanacea and that gap could be thus filled.

best regards

nadeem waqif

[J.M. Garg]

Good work, Nadeem ji,

I have kept observations of both (due to difficulty in segregating them as well as Catalogue of life treats both as same) at 
https://efloraofindia.com/2013/01/24/ardisia-elliptica/

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

[Paradesi Anjaneyulu]

I will share Nadeem JI

I have two species access.

If possible Can I know the person details please

Name and number.

[nadeem waqif]

Anjaneyulu Garu, I am just an amateur gardener interested in native species, for reforestry and landscaping, actually more interested in the biology and ecology of plants. efloraofindia is very useful in identifying new plants i come across tho the identify is just the starting point of any understanding. Taxonomical details are not that important for me, personally. But it is very important for efloraofindia that every record is properly classified. I thought that the above debate about the difference between A. elliptica and A. solanacea could be clarified by you since you mentioned that you have access to both and hence, i suggested that you enlighten efloraofindia with a proper photographic documentation. As efloraofindia is based on voluntary contribution, Gargji did not ask you directly and i, perhaps rudely, went above my station with my request.

i can provide my personal details, but i dont see how they are relevant here.

best regards.

[Paradesi Anjaneyulu]

Understood Nadeem Ji,

I will update soon with full details. 

[Paradesi Anjaneyulu]

Ardisia ellipica.

On Mon, 29 May 2023 at 14:08, Paradesi Anjaneyulu <paradesia...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ardisia solanacea.

[nadeem waqif]

Thank you Anjaneyulu Garu.

The venation of the leaves look distinctly different in the pictures. Even among earlier documentations of plants categorized by Gargji in Ardisia elliptica on efloraofindia, some show distinct venation and others are very smooth. 

Just by the venation, the specimen in the photographs uploaded by me looks like A. solanacea.

But ill leave it to the Moderators to decide how to deal with this issue further.

Thank you all

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Paradesi ji

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Paradesi Anjaneyulu <paradesia...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 at 14:08
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:446244] Tree For ID - Horsely Hills, Andhra Pradesh - NW-2023-APR01
To: nadeem waqif <nadeem...@gmail.com>
Cc: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>, efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, Kumar Prabhat Das <pkdasr...@gmail.com>, Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Ardisia solanacea.

On Sun, 28 May 2023 at 19:07, Paradesi Anjaneyulu <paradesia...@gmail.com> wrote:

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With regards,
J.M.Garg