DV - 31OCT10 - 0847 :: Hibiscus ¿ hispidissimus ?

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Dinesh Valke

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Nov 5, 2010, 2:48:26 PM11/5/10
to efloraofindia
Dear friends,
Believing this plant to be Hibiscus hispidissimus ... please validate.

Date/Time
: October 31, 2010 at 8.47am IST
Location Place : Yeoor Hills (part of Sanjay Gandhi National Park)
Altitude : about 259 m (above mean sea level)
GPS : around 19°14'59.92"N, 72°56'0.04"E

Habitat : growing wild in mixed deciduous forest

Plant
Habit
: diffuse herb
Height :about 1 m




Regards.


P1280405.jpg
P1280396.jpg
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tanay bose

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Nov 5, 2010, 3:15:52 PM11/5/10
to Dinesh Valke, efloraofindia
Dear Dinesh Ji,
I think you are right , I am attaching a paper from taxon which I think will help you, this paper is not available to public but I have the access.
Kindly consider.

Regards
tanay
--
Tanay Bose
Research Assistant & Teaching Assistant.
Department of Botany.
University of British Columbia .
3529-6270 University Blvd.
Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4 (Canada)
Phone: 778-323-4036 (Mobile)
            604-822-2019 (Lab)

Hibiscus hispidissimus paper.pdf

Dinesh Valke

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Nov 6, 2010, 3:41:39 AM11/6/10
to tanay bose, efloraofindia
Dear Tanay ... many thanks for providing the literature ... did come across this article ... not sure of the URL.
And therefore seeking validation ... you see Hibiscus surattensis is quite close to H. hispidissimus.

Regards.

tanay bose

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Nov 6, 2010, 10:05:13 AM11/6/10
to Dinesh Valke, efloraofindia
Right you are Dinesh Ji but the leaf stucture show how asures me this plant as H . hispidissimus
Tanay

Dr Pankaj Kumar

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Nov 6, 2010, 11:23:38 AM11/6/10
to efloraofindia
Journal is available for free on the internet especially all the
volumes before 2001.

http://www.jstor.org/action/doBasicSearch?Query=Hibiscus+hispidissimus&gw=jtx&acc=on&prq=taxon&hp=25&wc=on

Anyways, what made me jump in was the reprint itself. From this
particular reference I think the plant should be Hibiscus
surattensis!!

Regards
Pankaj


On Nov 6, 7:05 pm, tanay bose <tanaybos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Right you are Dinesh Ji but the leaf stucture show how asures me this plant
> as H . hispidissimus
> Tanay
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 1:11 PM, Dinesh Valke <dinesh.va...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Dear Tanay ... many thanks for providing the literature ... did come across
> > this article ... not sure of the URL.
> > And therefore seeking validation ... you see *Hibiscus surattensis* is
> > quite close to *H. hispidissimus*.
>
> > Regards.
>
> > On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 12:45 AM, tanay bose <tanaybos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Dear Dinesh Ji,
> >> I think you are right , I am attaching a paper from taxon which I think
> >> will help you, this paper is not available to public but I have the access.
> >> Kindly consider.
>
> >> Regards
> >> tanay
>
> >> On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 12:18 AM, Dinesh Valke <dinesh.va...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>> Dear friends,
> >>> Believing this plant to be *Hibiscus hispidissimus* ... please validate.
>
> >>> Date/Time : October 31, 2010 at 8.47am IST
> >>> Location Place : Yeoor Hills (part of Sanjay Gandhi National Park)
> >>> Altitude : about 259 m (above mean sea level)
> >>> GPS : around 19°14'59.92"N, 72°56'0.04"E
>
> >>> Habitat : growing wild in mixed deciduous forest
>
> >>> Plant
> >>> Habit : diffuse herb
> >>> Height :about 1 m
>
> >>> Regards.
>
> >> --
> >> *Tanay Bose*
> >> Research Assistant & Teaching Assistant.
> >> Department of Botany.
> >> University of British Columbia .
> >> 3529-6270 University Blvd.
> >> Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4 (Canada)
> >> Phone: 778-323-4036 (Mobile)
> >>             604-822-2019 (Lab)
> >> ta...@interchange.ubc.ca
>
> --
> *Tanay Bose*

Dinesh Valke

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Nov 6, 2010, 11:36:38 AM11/6/10
to Dr Pankaj Kumar, efloraofindia
Dear Pankaj ... knowing that both the species are very close, put the plant for validation.

Had glimpsed this journal earlier to posting.

There is another Google Book available for referencing these two species ... Malvaceae of southern peninsular India: a taxonomic monograph by V. V. Sivarajan, A. K. Pradeep at
http://books.google.co.in/books?id=XhVI5BluzCUC&pg=PA106&lpg=PA106&dq=Hibiscus+hispidissimus&source=bl&ots=aE-MiRtNjp&sig=OdzosTdY7yhyDZau1oWs1xZrVxw&hl=en&ei=fazTTIX7EIjBcZ-G1fsE&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CDcQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=Hibiscus%20hispidissimus&f=false (for want of time did not condense this extra long URL ... will make use of your tip in future)

Going through their descriptions and illustrations, am more inclined towards H. hispidissimus ... for the sole reason that the stipule in case of H. surattensis is quite (relatively) conspicuous.
Did not dig any other features

Your thoughts.


Regards.

Tabish

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Nov 6, 2010, 12:12:37 PM11/6/10
to efloraofindia
I think the leaves of Hibiscus surattensis is deeply lobed as compared
to those of Hibiscus hispidissimus. Also lobes in the mature leaves of
Hibiscus hispidissimus are long-pointed - not so in Hibiscus
surattensis.
Other difference is that Hibiscus surattensis is either prostrate or
climbing. Dinesh's plant is erect at this stage. Hibiscus
hispidissimus is supposed to be erect or scandent.
So, to me Dinesh's plant looks like Hibiscus hispidissimus.
- Tabish

On Nov 6, 8:36 pm, Dinesh Valke <dinesh.va...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Pankaj ... knowing that both the species are very close, put the plant
> for validation.
>
> Had glimpsed this journal earlier to posting.
>
> There is another Google Book available for referencing these two species ...
> Malvaceae of southern peninsular India: a taxonomic monograph by V. V.
> Sivarajan, A. K. Pradeep athttp://books.google.co.in/books?id=XhVI5BluzCUC&pg=PA106&lpg=PA106&dq...
> want of time did not condense this extra long URL ... will make use of
> your tip in future)
>
> Going through their descriptions and illustrations, am more inclined towards
> H. hispidissimus ... for the sole reason that the stipule in case of H.
> surattensis is quite (relatively) conspicuous.
> Did not dig any other features
>
> Your thoughts.
>
> Regards.
>
> On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 8:53 PM, Dr Pankaj Kumar <sahanipan...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > Journal is available for free on the internet especially all the
> > volumes before 2001.
>
> >http://www.jstor.org/action/doBasicSearch?Query=Hibiscus+hispidissimu...

Pankaj Kumar

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Nov 6, 2010, 3:04:35 PM11/6/10
to Tabish, efloraofindia
Thanks a lot Dinesh sir and Dr. Tabish sir.
Yeah stipules were enough to say that this is not surattensis.
Thanks for the information and the links.
Pankaj

--
***********************************************
"TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!"


Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae)
Research Associate
Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project
Department of Habitat Ecology
Wildlife Institute of India
Post Box # 18
Dehradun - 248001, India

Dinesh Valke

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Nov 6, 2010, 3:30:41 PM11/6/10
to Pankaj Kumar, Tabish, efloraofindia
Thank you very much Tabish, Pankaj and Tanay for the validations and clarifications.

Hibiscus hispidissimus (syn. H. furcatus, H. aculeatus) is commonly known as: hill hemp bendy, wild hibiscus • Gujarati: મજનૂ ફલ majnu-phal • Hindi: वन गुढ़ल van gurhal • Kannada: ಬೆಟ್ಟ ಬಂಡೆ betta bende • Konkani: व्हडलो रानभेंडो vhadlo ranbhendo • Malayalam: ഞാറന്‍പുളി njaaranpuli • Marathi: रानभेंडी raanbhendi • Sanskrit: शठम्बष्ठी sathambasthi • Tamil: மலைப்புளிச்சை malai-p-puliccai • Telugu: అడవిగోగు adavigogu, కొండగోగు kondagogu



Regards.

Pankaj Kumar

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Nov 6, 2010, 4:45:32 PM11/6/10
to Dinesh Valke, Tabish, efloraofindia
Dear Dinesh sir,

There is one technical issue here. You cant write, "Hibiscus
hispidissimus (syn. H. furcatus, H. aculeatus)".

Why?

Because, the reprint and your link uses some words like "non Willd."
and "non Walter". So it means these two names (H. furcatus & H.
aculeatus) are being given by Walter and Willdenow for other taxa and
they are being validly used. So your writing this way means you have
merged three different species in one, which is not the case here.

So now we have three names here. The above plant being:

Hibiscus hispidissimus Griff., Not. Pl. Asiat. 4: 521 (1854).
Synonyms:
Hibiscus aculeatus Roxb., Fl. Ind. 3: 206 (1832) (non Walter 1788) (nom. illeg.)
Hibiscus furcatus Roxb. ex DC., Prodr. 1: 448 (1824) (non Willdenow)
(nom. illeg.)

nom. illeg. means name is illegitimate according to the ICBN's
Priority of Publication (Article 11), i.e., wrong, because, there are
other two plants accepted with the same two names but given by two
different authors. Those names are as follows:

Hibiscus furcatus Willd., Enum. Pl. [Willdenow] 2: 736 (1809).

Hibiscus aculeatus Walter, Fl. Carol. [Walter] 177 (1788).

So the solution:

If you dont wish to write the original citation like most of the
taxonomists do, then, in the simplest way it can be written as:

Hibiscus hispidissimus [syn. H. furcatus (not the originally
described), H. aculeatus (not the originally described)].

or

Hibiscus hispidissimus [syn. H. furcatus (non Willdenow), H. aculeatus
(non Walter)]

Hope this is understandable.

Regards
Pankaj

Gurcharan Singh

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Nov 6, 2010, 6:21:10 PM11/6/10
to Pankaj Kumar, Dinesh Valke, Tabish, efloraofindia
Yes Pankaj ji
I have written about such situations many a times on this group. I hope it soon picks up.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

Dinesh Valke

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Nov 7, 2010, 12:05:33 AM11/7/10
to Gurcharan Singh, Pankaj Kumar, Tabish, efloraofindia
Thank you very much Pankaj ... this information was enlightening and interesting too.
Regards.
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