Fern for id..? Alsophila (cyathea) gigantea

[Deepak Deshpande]

Date/Time-22 Jan 2022

Location- Nangartas waterfall, Near Amboli. South West Maharashtra, W. ghats.-

Habitat- Wild. Lithophytic,in waterfall and on stream bank.

Plant Habit- Shrub in colonies.  

Height-50cm

Leaves- 50cm. Stipe having brown scales , very few on rachis.. No spines. Sori arranged in V-shaped pattern. 

[Deepak Deshpande]

On 2nd thoughts, it may be Thelypteris dentata..the rhizome is creeping. Lamina base is  tapering. I was misled by the pattern of sori..

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Deepak ji

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With regards,
J. M. Garg

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[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Deepak ji

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With regards,
J. M. Garg

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Deepak Deshpande <drdeepakde...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Jan, 2022, 9:01 am
Subject: [efloraofindia:413290] Re: Fern for id..? Alsophila (cyathea) gigantea
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

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[J.M. Garg]

Thanks a lot, Chris ji

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With regards,
J. M. Garg

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Chris Fraser-Jenkins <>
Date: Mon, 24 Jan, 2022, 1:09 pm
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:413288] Fern for id..? Alsophila (cyathea) gigantea
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

Not this time!  Way off, I'm sorry to say.  Cyathea (Gymnosphaera) gigantea is glabrous beneath the pinnae and does not have small hairs like that anywhere.  Also those sori are not in Vs  - when you see real C. gigantea you will see V-lines of sori, quite different.  Also the lowest pair of opposite veinlets anastomose beneath the space between the pinnules - they are free in C. gigantea.

This is Thelypteris (Christella) dentata agg. - I say agg., because in southern and W. peninsular India T. dentata includes two close species.  True T. dentata has a rather short-creeping , thick rhizomes, closely surrounded by old stipe-bases, with fronds arising all together at its apex - and has a bit longer hairs beneath the pinna-costae.  But the other taxaon, which is either T. malabarica or T. meeboldii (sorry I didn't finally see which) has a much longer and thin, creeping rhizome with fronds rather well apart, and the hairs beneath the pinna-costae are smaller.

I vaguely guess your plant is the latter, but for Thelypteridaceae we need to know about the rhizome.  I wonder if you photographed it? - Or included it in the herbarium-specimen?

Incidentally, hoth C. gigantea and T. dentata are terrestrial, not lithophytic.  Lithophytic means growing on the side of the rock, not on the ground.  Having stones in the ground between soil does not mean they are lithophytes.

Best wishes,

      Chris F.-J.

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks a lot, Chris ji

--
With regards,
J. M. Garg

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Chris Fraser-Jenkins <>
Date: Mon, 24 Jan, 2022, 1:13 pm
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:413290] Re: Fern for id..? Alsophila (cyathea) gigantea
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

Yes, that's right.  How creeping was the creeping?  Did you make a photo of the rhizome, as I mentioned in my identification.

The sori are not in Vs - but nearly parallel - you need to see a photo of C. gigantea sori, really in inverted Vs.

Best,

    Chris.

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Deepak ji

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Deepak Deshpande <drdeepakde...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 at 16:29
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:413290] Re: Fern for id..? Alsophila (cyathea) gigantea
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

Thank you sir for the details. I am attaching photos of the rhizome. It appears to be thick, short- so  likely to be Thelypteris (Christella) dentata..?

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks a lot, Chris ji

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Chris Fraser-Jenkins 
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 at 14:16
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:413290] Re: Fern for id..? Alsophila (cyathea) gigantea
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

Yes, definitely dentata.  The other one, which I think is T. meeboldii (see in my Indian Checklist vol. 2), has a thin, long thizome not covered in close leaf-bases like this - and has fronds few and well apart, more like how they are in T. jaculosa.

The late Dr. Wolfgang Theuerkof at Gurukulla, Kerala, had lots of the meeboldii one growing wild in his natural park there and will still be there.

Best wishes,

    Chris.

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg