SK1026 18 MAR-2018

[Saroj Kasaju]

Dear Members 

Location: Mudkhu, Kathmandu, Nepal 

Altitude: 5000 ft.

Date: 16 March 2018

Habit : Wild

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[J.M. Garg]

Very strange. Pl. check Convolvulaceae https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/a---l/cl/convolvulaceae

[Saroj Kasaju]

Did not find match.

Is it the same :  SK999 7 MAR-2018   ??

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[J.M. Garg]

Any idea about it ?

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

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[J.M. Garg]

Thanks a lot, Samiran ji. 

On Wed 28 Mar, 2018, 11:50 AM Samiran Panday, <sam...@gmail.com> wrote:

May be the seedling of Ainsliaea..  or some allied genus of Asteraceae..

--

Dr. Samiran Panday
Research Scholar
Central National Herbarium

Botanical Survey of India
Howrah- 711 103

West Bengal, India.
Mob. No. 09163687754

[Saroj Kasaju]

Dear All,

Definitely not  Ainsliaea listed in Nepal but could be 

some  Asteraceae .

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[Saroj Kasaju]

Finally! After follow-up for almost a year and half!!

Location : Pilot baba Ashram, Bhaktapur 

Date : 28 April 2019

Elevation : 1637 m.

Habit : Wild 

Again a new addition to the efi ?

Ixeridium sagittarioides (C.B.Clarke) Pak & Kawano

Syn : Ixeris sagittarioides (C.B.Clarke) Stebbins

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Saroj ji, for the great follow-up. 

--
With regards,
J. M. Garg

[Saroj Kasaju]

Thank you Mr. Garg.

Saroj Kasaju

--

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[surajitno...@gmail.com]

I beg to differ Sir.

In the flower pic no. 8, outer phyllaries looks markedly larger than what FoC describes for the entire Genus. There is no mention that phyllaries do have scarious margins.

Please pardon me if I am wrong, for, I do not know the size of the flower or the phyllaries. May I ask what was the approx length of involucre? 

[Saroj Kasaju]

Thank you Surajit JI.

Did not find any other matching : Ixeris

Saroj Kasaju

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[surajit koley]

Sir,

I may be wrong, but please make sure of the ID. This will help me immensely even if I am proved wrong.

Please check GBIF specimens, your flower seems to be way larger than those specimens from Nepal.

It is possible that your 2nd set in the thread, i.e., the flowering set is of different species.

Thank you

With regards

surajit

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[Saroj Kasaju]

Actually Ixeridium sagittarioides is from exactly the same location after flowering and the earlier one 

is from a different location which seem slightly different as you said. Need to explore. May be 

Mr. Garg could help in this matter. Another one from a different location : Ixeridium sagittarioides 

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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[surajit koley]

Yes,Sir, I have seen your other uploads too. Since your pictures are of higher resolution it is difficult for me to guess the sizes (of flowers, phyllaries etc.). Only you can determine the sizes and let us know the true identity.

But, first, I would like to correct myself - the genus Ixeridium itself features scarious phyllaries, that is why FoC didn't mention it in the species page.

Thank you

With regards

surajit

[surajit koley]

Saroj Ji, I started with the Taraxacum of FoN, this morning - linked with KEW, GBIF, FoC, and one or two other sites -

Taraxacum minutilobum Popov ex Kovalevsk.	http://www.plantsoftheworldonline.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:254017-1	http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=250097551
Taraxacum amabile Soest	http://www.plantsoftheworldonline.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:252700-1
Taraxacum elegans Soest	http://www.plantsoftheworldonline.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:77137271-1
Taraxacum eriopodum DC	http://www.plantsoftheworldonline.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:253281-1	http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242351291
Taraxacum parvulum DC. (T. himalaicum)	http://www.plantsoftheworldonline.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:254257-1	http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242351336	https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/gallery?taxon_key=5394402
Taraxacum lanigerum Soest	http://www.plantsoftheworldonline.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:253752-1	http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242351312
Taraxacum mitalii Soest	http://www.plantsoftheworldonline.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:254023-1	http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242425872	https://www.gbif.org/species/5393986
Taraxacum monochlamydeum Hand.-Mazz.	http://www.plantsoftheworldonline.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:254035-1	http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=317655	https://data.rbge.org.uk/search/herbarium/?specimen_num=509181&cfg=zoom.cfg&filename=E00489557.zip
Taraxacum nepalense Soest	http://www.plantsoftheworldonline.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:254097-1		https://www.nepjol.info/index.php/hebids/article/download/36123/28179/
Taraxacum officinale F.H.Wigg.	http://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:1003018-2	http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=220013281
Taraxacum pseudostenoceras Soest	http://www.plantsoftheworldonline.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:254499-1
Taraxacum sikkimense Hand.-Mazz.	http://www.plantsoftheworldonline.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:254739-1	http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242351351
Taraxacum staintonii Soest	http://www.plantsoftheworldonline.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:254792-1
Taraxacum tibetanum Hand.-Mazz.	http://www.plantsoftheworldonline.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:254973-1	http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242425880	https://www.gbif.org/species/5393973

Now, I will propose (not suggest!) an impossible idea!

Please check the urls (also attached screenshots) below - 

1. https://data.rbge.org.uk/search/herbarium/?specimen_num=509181&cfg=zoom.cfg&filename=E00489557.zip (you ca download HR image file)
   
2. https://science.mnhn.fr/institution/mnhn/collection/p/item/p02508509 (click on the image and see HR format)
   

In your uploads, there is picture showing hint of partly lobed or runcinate leaf. Unfortunately I could not find any description of the species. Distribution is a major concern, but FoC admits of report of the species there.

This much for now.

[surajit koley]

Saroj ji, please forget Taraxacum, usually they have broad/wide, even 3 cm., capitulum, whereas your species is not. It is something else, and I amy find the id.

[Saroj Kasaju]

Ok Surajit Ji.  I was wondering too !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[surajit koley]

Chondrilla nudicaulis L. from The Linnean Collections - http://linnean-online.org/46199/.and http://linnean-online.org/9672/

Launaea nudicaulis is not distributed in Nepal (could not find any data)

Yet, I pasted the links to give an idea of the variability of the leaves and an idea about the involucre.

Launaea procumbens is very variable and similar to L. nudicaulis.(L. nudicaulis is extremely variable morphological characters, even in capitula too)..

Your plant might be L. procumbens.

Thank you,

Regards

surajit

[Saroj Kasaju]

I guess the key factor is sagitate single leaf which is distinct in this case!

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[surajit koley]

Agreed, Sir, that's why I said "might be", meaning it's not the end of my suggestion!

Thank you

Regards

surajit

[Saroj Kasaju]

L. procumbens leaves are completely different !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[surajit koley]

Sorry, Sir, I was stressing on involucre, completely overlooking those erect sagittate leaves. Yes, you are absolutely correct.

Thank you

Regards

surajit

[Saroj Kasaju]

Thank you Surajit Ji,

So we shall take it as it is ?

Saroj Kasaju

[surajit koley]

Since when did the forum allow identifying a species only by its leaves, Sir ji?

I think, in present circumstances, probabilities are -

1. While describing the leaves correctly, Hooker, Clarke, FoC all went wrong describing the flower of Lactuca sagittarioides,.... (assuming your identification is correct !!!)
2. Though presently Lactuca sagittarioides is synonymous with Ixeridium sagittarioides, may be in future some botanist would separate them.
3. the leaves and the flowers in your uploads are of two different species
4. the flowers and the leaves are of same species but the species is mis-identified (there is a picture of another species to give an idea what a flower of Ixeridium would look like - neither tubular nor campanulate, rather tends to rotate form after fully openning)

What do you say, Sir ji?

Thank you

Regards

surajit

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Surajit ji and Saroj ji, for the detailed discussions.

Flora of China says for Ixeridium sagittarioides (C. B. Clarke) Pak & Kawano: 

Capitula with 8-16 florets; peduncle wiry. Involucre narrowly cylindric, 7-8 mm. Outer phyllaries ovate to lanceolate, apex acute; inner phyllaries ca. 8[-12], apex acute. It also says for genus Ixeridium (A. Gray) Tzvelev: Phyllaries in few series, margin narrow and scarious; outer phyllaries few, very short (at most ca. 2 mm, usually less), ± unequal; inner phyllaries 5 or (7 or)8, linear-lanceolate, equal. 

Also I personally feel posted plant matches GBIF specimens from Nepal and Bhutan except for some outer phyllaries being comparatively larger in proportion to inner phyllaries as Surajit ji has also pointed. I did not find a single specimen in GBIF from China. Maybe we can further explore dimensions given in our own floras.

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

[surajit koley]

Nepal also offers Senecio spp. having sagittate leaves, may worth giving a try - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317939369_The_identity_of_Senecio_topkegolensis_Asteraceae_Senecioneae_from_Nepal

[surajit koley]

I did not mean Saroj ji's species equals the species linked in the paper I sent just minutes ago. 

What I mean is that the uploaded species. in this thread, can be a Senecio if flower and leaves belong to the same plant. 

Thank you

With regards

surajit

[Saroj Kasaju]

That is very high altitude sp. and do not seem marching.

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FChen-Ren-4%2Fpublication%2F317939369%2Ffigure%2Ffig1%2FAS%3A526086520147968%401502440208109%2FSpecimens-of-Senecio-biligulatus-A-H-Ohashi-et-al-775175-TI-holotype-of-S_Q640.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Ffigure%2FSpecimens-of-Senecio-biligulatus-A-H-Ohashi-et-al-775175-TI-holotype-of-S_fig1_317939369&tbnid=S2WMPCxULRDHHM&vet=12ahUKEwjY2OvoutXxAhU1VXwKHVm5DrYQMygAegQIARAt..i&docid=4IPy9DzVSQFmoM&w=640&h=640&itg=1&q=Senecio%20topkegolensis&hl=en&client=safari&ved=2ahUKEwjY2OvoutXxAhU1VXwKHVm5DrYQMygAegQIARAt

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju