Balsaminaceae, Geraniaceae and Oxalidaceae Week: Geraniaceae- Geranium himalayense from Kashmir-GS-37

[Gurcharan Singh]

Geranium himalayense Kllotzsch

Large-flowered Himalayan species somewhat similar to G. pratense but with wedge-shaped segments, larger purple to pink flowers with 20-28 mm long petals and longer fruits 4-4.5 cm long.

Photographed from Kashmir

--

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

[Satish Phadke]

I am loving all the leaf photographs too. Each with unique shape and pattern of lobes.

Dr Satish Phadke

--
 
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 

[chrischa...@btinternet.com]

This is not Geranium himalayense.  I will need time to suggest which species this is.  The geraniums of this region have not been well understood.  Geranium is found in the region, especially in Ladakh, where it is common in irrigated areas.  There are a number of Geraniums in the region I am uncertain about.  Entirely possible some new species will be recognised in the years to come.  I am currently looking into Primulaceae on eFI specifically Androsaces but will go through Geraniaceae when I can.  Was prompted to take a quick look at entries as was sent an image photographed in Ladakh which was thought to be Geranium himalayense but is the dwarf Geranium regelii (in the past this species was not recorded from Ladakh and remains poorly understood).

Geraniums are not easy.  A pity that Peter Yeo, formerly of the University of Cambridge Botanic Garden is now longer alive as he specialised in this genus. May I quote from a letter he wrote to me about two confusing colonies of Geraniums I have observed at Patseo in Lahoul (just before one reaches the route up to the Baralacha La en route to Leh from Manali).  His thinking was that there were two genetically and ecologically different populations (only some 50 metres apart in places) but the similarities suggest that they have a local common ancestor.  He felt it was reasonable to use the name Geranium regelii  for the dwarf scree plant.  He considered taller plant growing nearby probably comes within Geranium pratense sensu lato (in the broad sense). Complicated....

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Chadwell ji

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to indian...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[chrischa...@btinternet.com]

Further to my posting on 12th November.  This is a totally different geranium to the photographed in VOF (see above posting).

I currently cannot put a firm name on this - shall comment further in due course. Further to my recent post about photographing Geraniums. 

I do not think this comes within the G.collinum-pratense-himalayense alliance/complex.  Kashmir is graced with quite a number of poorly-known

geraniums.

  

Let me try to explain.  In the Notes Yeo supplied me, he draws attention to the problematical G.collinum-pratense-himalayense alliance.  He considered this was particularly critical in the NW Himalaya with high quality pressed specimens needed (nowadays these can be supplemented and sometimes replaced by high quality digital images (provided the advice given below is followed).  This alliance has pink to blue flowers (sometimes white) in which the stamen-tip and stigmas are never blackish-purple...

 

I consider it will be helpful for keen photographers, willing to make an additional effort, to know which parts of Geranium to photograph.  Having images of such parts of each geranium will greatly aid identification and enhance our understanding of the genus in the Himalaya - and perhaps you can help with the locating and identification of a species new-to-science!

 

 

PHOTOGRAPHING GERANIUMS:

 

IF only the first one or two flowers have come out don't bother to collect as the form of inflorescence will not be evident.

The rootstock is important; get enough to show whether compact or creeping, or annual.  You can photograph the base of the plant which should provide this information.  Clearly, one requires permission from the authorities to uproot a plant.  There is still  a need and indeed role for the collection of pressed specimens for herbaria in India but that is primarily the domain of staff of botanic gardens/ institutions.
 
 In the early stages of flowering look out for the best-developed unripe fruits available.
 
 If fruit is ripe try to include both dehisced and undehisced states.
 
 If the fruits are falling with the seeds inside them, collect some (many geraniums disperse their seed explosively but some seed is often retained).
 
Include some loose petals when pressing (detach if necessary).  Expose stamens to show filament shape and hairs by taking 2 or 3 sepals off a flower from which petals have recently dropped.
 
Smoothing out one or two leaves and flowers as you close the press may be helpful; a few separately pressed basal and lower/middle stem leaves are often useful.
 
Wilted specimens can be very misleading.
 
Notes should be taken as to flower posture, colour and patterning of petals, colour of stigmas, anthers and distal parts of filaments (not necessary if your photos show these).
 
And don't forget to ensure the stipules are clearly shown - something that would have been obviously in pressed specimens, so not mentioned above by Yeo.

On Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 3:03:04 PM UTC, Gurcharan Singh wrote:

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Chadwell ji

--

[Gurcharan Singh]

Thanks Dr. Chadwell. I have original full resolution photographs of this plant, and few others. If you want me to crop and enlarge any, please let me know.

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 5:35 PM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, Chadwell ji

[C CHADWELL]

Would be useful to view any additional images of Geraniums you have from the Himalaya but please digest my comments

and additional images and information I have been posting. 

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>; efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2016, 4:47
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:257117] Re: Balsaminaceae, Geraniaceae and Oxalidaceae Week: Geraniaceae- Geranium himalayense from Kashmir-GS-37

Thanks Dr. Chadwell. I have original full resolution photographs of this plant, and few others. If you want me to crop and enlarge any, please let me know.

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 5:35 PM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, Chadwell ji

On 19 Nov 2016 7:04 pm, "chrischadwell261@btinternet. com" <chrischadwell261@btinternet. com> wrote:

Further to my posting on 12th November.  This is a totally different geranium to the photographed in VOF (see above posting).

I currently cannot put a firm name on this - shall comment further in due course. Further to my recent post about photographing Geraniums. 

I do not think this comes within the G.collinum-pratense-himalayens e alliance/complex.  Kashmir is graced with quite a number of poorly-known

geraniums.

  

Let me try to explain.  In the Notes Yeo supplied me, he draws attention to the problematical G.collinum-pratense-himalayens e alliance.  He considered this was particularly critical in the NW Himalaya with high quality pressed specimens needed (nowadays these can be supplemented and sometimes replaced by high quality digital images (provided the advice given below is followed).  This alliance has pink to blue flowers (sometimes white) in which the stamen-tip and stigmas are never blackish-purple...

[C CHADWELL]

Would be useful to view any additional images of Geraniums you have from the Himalaya but please digest my comments

and additional images and information I have been posting. 

 

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>; efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2016, 4:47

Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:257414] Re: Balsaminaceae, Geraniaceae and Oxalidaceae Week: Geraniaceae- Geranium himalayense from Kashmir-GS-37

Thanks Dr. Chadwell. I have original full resolution photographs of this plant, and few others. If you want me to crop and enlarge any, please let me know.

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 5:35 PM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, Chadwell ji

On 19 Nov 2016 7:04 pm, "chrischadwell261@btinternet. com" <chrischadwell261@btinternet. com> wrote:

Further to my posting on 12th November.  This is a totally different geranium to the photographed in VOF (see above posting).

I currently cannot put a firm name on this - shall comment further in due course. Further to my recent post about photographing Geraniums. 

I do not think this comes within the G.collinum-pratense-himalayens e alliance/complex.  Kashmir is graced with quite a number of poorly-known

geraniums.

  

Let me try to explain.  In the Notes Yeo supplied me, he draws attention to the problematical G.collinum-pratense-himalayens e alliance.  He considered this was particularly critical in the NW Himalaya with high quality pressed specimens needed (nowadays these can be supplemented and sometimes replaced by high quality digital images (provided the advice given below is followed).  This alliance has pink to blue flowers (sometimes white) in which the stamen-tip and stigmas are never blackish-purple...

 

I consider it will be helpful for keen photographers, willing to make an additional effort, to know which parts of Geranium to photograph.  Having images of such parts of each geranium will greatly aid identification and enhance our understanding of the genus in the Himalaya - and perhaps you can help with the locating and identification of a species new-to-science!

 

 

PHOTOGRAPHING GERANIUMS:

 

IF only the first one or two flowers have come out don't bother to collect as the form of inflorescence will not be evident.

The rootstock is important; get enough to show whether compact or creeping, or annual.  You can photograph the base of the plant which should provide this information.  Clearly, one requires permission from the authorities to uproot a plant.  There is still  a need and indeed role for the collection of pressed specimens for herbaria in India but that is primarily the domain of staff of botanic gardens/ institutions.
 
 In the early stages of flowering look out for the best-developed unripe fruits available.
 
 If fruit is ripe try to include both dehisced and undehisced states.
 
 If the fruits are falling with the seeds inside them, collect some (many geraniums disperse their seed explosively but some seed is often retained).
 
Include some loose petals when pressing (detach if necessary).  Expose stamens to show filament shape and hairs by taking 2 or 3 sepals off a flower from which petals have recently dropped.
 
Smoothing out one or two leaves and flowers as you close the press may be helpful; a few separately pressed basal and lower/middle stem leaves are often useful.
 
Wilted specimens can be very misleading.
 
Notes should be taken as to flower posture, colour and patterning of petals, colour of stigmas, anthers and distal parts of filaments (not necessary if your photos show these).
 
And don't forget to ensure the stipules are clearly shown - something that would have been obviously in pressed specimens, so not mentioned above by Yeo.

On Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 3:03:04 PM UTC, Gurcharan Singh wrote:

Geranium himalayense Kllotzsch

Large-flowered Himalayan species somewhat similar to G. pratense but with wedge-shaped segments, larger purple to pink flowers with 20-28 mm long petals and longer fruits 4-4.5 cm long.

Photographed from Kashmir

--

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com / 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg 45/

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@goog legroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to indian...@googlegroups.com .
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/grou p/indiantreepix.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/op tout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/indiantreepix/KwijYucDS1c/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com.

[J.M. Garg]

I guess Geranium himalayense Klotzsch is the correct ID !
Thank you
Saroj Kasaju

--
 
---

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

[J.M. Garg]

Hi, Singh ji,

Could you pl. confirm or otherwise ?

Hi, Saroj ji,

From where exactly did you identify it.

Images by Chris ji at Geranium himalayense look different.

In pursuing GBIF specimens and images, I could not decide.

There are two specimens from India in GBIF determined by Yeo and Aedo, as below:

https://api.gbif.org/v1/image/unsafe/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kew.org%2Fherbcatimg%2F360646.jpg

https://api.gbif.org/v1/image/unsafe/http%3A%2F%2F161.111.171.57%2Ffcgi-bin%2Fiipsrv.fcgi%3FFIF%3D%2FCatalogo%2FFanerogamia%2FIMGS_web%2FIMGS_jp2%2FMA-01-00617374.jp2%26WID%3D2200%26QLT%3D40%26CVT%3Djpeg

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

[J.M. Garg]

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

[Gurcharan Singh]

Garg ji

I never doubted it.

[Gurcharan Singh]

Saroj ji

Thanks for confirming.

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Singh ji.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/6599ae03-42d5-42d4-a4c2-59d2c19b8c11n%40googlegroups.com.

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

[Saroj Kasaju]

Thank you Gurucharan Sir !

Saroj Kasaju

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/CA%2BiuSFDaKXmtnbX%2Bvd0vHWSJuA7zeYtuF2QY_sK6aiwwkyek7Q%40mail.gmail.com.