Abroma augusta (L.) L.f. from Hooghly

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surajit koley

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Jul 30, 2012, 2:10:52 PM7/30/12
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Ritesh Kumar Choudhary

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Jul 30, 2012, 8:24:55 PM7/30/12
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Dear Surajit Ji,

Thanks for sharing a detailed illustration of A. augusta.

In the new system of classification (APG III) Sterculiaceae is treated under Malvaceae. So you can keep this plant in your Malvaceae folder. :-) 

Happy posting...and thanks again!

Best regards,
Ritesh. 

Nidhan Singh

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Jul 30, 2012, 9:39:41 PM7/30/12
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Extraordinary pics Surajit Ji, thanks for your efforts...

--
Regards,

Dr. Nidhan Singh
Department of Botany
I.B. (PG) College
Panipat-132103 Haryana
Ph.: 09416371227

surajit koley

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Jul 30, 2012, 10:18:11 PM7/30/12
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Good morning Ritesh Ji,

Thank you very much for the info. But it gives birth to more questions-
  • What is APG III ?
  • Why should Sterculiaceae go to Malvaceae?
Dug up a little bit and found this-


Oops!

Regards,

surajit

surajit koley

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Jul 30, 2012, 10:19:15 PM7/30/12
to Nidhan Singh, Ritesh Kumar Choudhary, indian...@googlegroups.com
Good morning Nidhan Sir,

Thank you very much.

Regards,

surajit

Ritesh Kumar Choudhary

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Jul 30, 2012, 10:28:08 PM7/30/12
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Good morning dear Surajit Ji,

Please find attached herewith a PDF on APG III. You can go through page 96 where you'll find all the families treated under Malvaceae (including Sterculiaceae).

Hope this satisfies your query.

Best regards,
Ritesh.
--
Ritesh Kumar Choudhary, Ph.D.
International Biological Material Research Center
Korea Research Institute of Bioscience & Biotechnology
125, Gwahak-ro, Yuseong-gu
Daejeon
South Korea-305-806

+82-42-879-8342 (O)
http://www.kribb.re.kr


"It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure." -- Albert Einstein
APG III.pdf

ushadi Micromini

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Jul 31, 2012, 12:14:27 AM7/31/12
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Dear Surajit and all:

During the Malvaceae week the classification was discussed...
if you wish you can go back and see the discussion...

usha di
===
--
Usha di
===========

Ritesh Kumar Choudhary

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Jul 31, 2012, 12:30:35 AM7/31/12
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Dear Surojit Ji,

One more interesting fact about the accepted name of this plant! Actually it was first named as AMbroma...and not ABroma.


Later, the 'M' of AMbroma somehow got overlooked!

I remember my first interaction with Dr. Vijayshankar ji on eflora....who mentioned the name as AMbroma...and I asked him to correct it as ABroma :-)


Still I don't know which one to follow :-(  .....Perhaps AMbroma!

Hope to hear from others.

Regards,
Ritesh.

Mahadeswara

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Jul 31, 2012, 7:24:39 AM7/31/12
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Great going by Surjit ji.  Very nice presentation.

surajit koley

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Jul 31, 2012, 1:42:38 PM7/31/12
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Thank you very much Ritesh Ji for the pdf file.

The file was published in 2011. The wikipedia says APG III was conceived in 2009. Now, how long will you allow the use of "family : Sterculiaceae", instead of "family : Malvaceae", for this plant, if any botany student submit his/her paper for any research project?

Regards,

surajit

surajit koley

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Jul 31, 2012, 1:43:13 PM7/31/12
to ushadi Micromini, efloraofindia
Thank you Usha Di for the suggestion. But a search of "malvaceae week" gives 643 results and browsing all is not feasible.

Regards,

surajit
malvaceae week search.jpg

surajit koley

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Jul 31, 2012, 1:43:50 PM7/31/12
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Dear Ritesh Ji,

Very surprising! Yet another name for this plant is Abroma augustum (L.) L. f. (http://www.tropicos.org/Name/30400001 and http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?101879) or Ambroma augustum (L.) L. f. (http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=250076909), under Sterculiaceae.

Regards,

surajit

surajit koley

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Jul 31, 2012, 1:46:12 PM7/31/12
to Mahadeswara, indian...@googlegroups.com
Thank you very much Mahadeswara Ji.

Regards,

surajit

Ritesh Kumar Choudhary

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Jul 31, 2012, 9:34:38 PM7/31/12
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Dear Surajit Ji,

Thanks for your message!

Please don't worry about the 'augustum' and 'augusta' issue. Both are same. As per ICBN guidelines, gender of the specific epithet should follow the gender of the generic name....thats why it is AbroMA augusTA!! Similarly DillenIA indiCA, MangifeRA indiCA etc. etc....I remember the issue was discussed long back on eflora.....(conversation between Dr. Gurucharan sir and Dr Pankaj).

This link will help you to know more:

And yes, you can ask your students to treat A. augusta under Malvaceae....even if they are submitting a research proposal (referring APGIII). 

Best regards,
Ritesh.

surajit koley

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Jul 31, 2012, 10:26:09 PM7/31/12
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Good morning Ritesh Ji,

Thank you very much for elaborating on 'A' and 'UM'. Please tell me -
  1. how the names "Abroma" or "Ambroma" and "augusta" or "augustum" were selected? There is a 'botanary' available in Dave's Garden and it has "Abroma" but no "Ambroma".
  2. what is the deadline for the use of "Sterculiaceae" for Abroma augusta, or any other member of the same family (sterculiaceae)?
Regards,

surajit

Ritesh Kumar Choudhary

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Jul 31, 2012, 10:37:08 PM7/31/12
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Good morning Surajit Ji,

Ambroma and Abroma is still a mystery to me! Waiting to hear from our experts!

And there is no such deadline defined yet...but it depends on your perception of the classification system. If you want to follow APG....2009 could be a deadline. Lets hear from others too.

Best regards,
Ritesh.

ushadi Micromini

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Jul 31, 2012, 11:40:39 PM7/31/12
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Gurcharanji and Satish Phadke discussed it if I remmeber it
--
Usha di
===========

surajit koley

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Aug 1, 2012, 12:00:23 PM8/1/12
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Dear RItesh Ji,

As i was musing over the name of this plant and found meanings of its latin name, it appeared very amusing to me! According to 'Botanary' :-
  1. Abroma = mildly toxic
  2. augusta or augustum = noble. majestic
So, Abroma augusta = mildly toxic (but) noble (lady, since it is a gender issue, AbroMA and augusTA) !!!

Regards,

surajit

surajit koley

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Aug 1, 2012, 12:22:41 PM8/1/12
to ushadi Micromini, efloraofindia
Usha Di,

I think Malvaceae week was observed in September 2011, and i was not a member at that time. Moreover, it is not possible for me to go through all posts in the group, current or past.

Regards,

surajit
malvaceae search 1.jpg
malvaceae search 2.jpg

Ritesh Kumar Choudhary

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Aug 1, 2012, 8:10:48 PM8/1/12
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Good morning Surajit Ji,

Happy to learn the meanings! I hope soon you'll find the meaning of Ambroma too.

Best regards,
Ritesh. 

surajit koley

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Aug 1, 2012, 10:07:58 PM8/1/12
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Good morning Ritesh Ji,

I think i should do away with finding meanings of latin names, they turn out very unexpected way!

Regards,

surajit

ushadi Micromini

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Aug 2, 2012, 3:43:07 AM8/2/12
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Surajit

Yes looking for malvaceae and abroma... brings up many pages ... recognizable among them in the first twenty listings  often is my writeup from september... ...so that's no help...

but to day my irritation with this AMBROMA and ABROIMA   was piqued enough...
I did some searches... like history of Abroma august and many in this vein...

BUT then googled for ...."who named abroma /ambroma augusta originally?   1784 or 1782 comes up but no more  HELP
and many searches in this vein regarding who named it, who changed the name etc...
NOTHING USEFUL....

2nd set of  googling for ...."who named abroma /ambroma augusta originally?   "
and hit pay dirt,    got the following : I QUOTE :  "

Abroma Notes

Malvaceae Info (Home)
Index to Genera

Synonymy of Abroma

Abroma angustum (L.) Murray

Introduction

Abroma (the persistent orthographic variant Ambroma is due to Linnaeus fils) is a genus belong to tribe Byttnerieae and subfamily Byttnerioideae of the angiosperm family Malvaceae sensu lato.The genus was introduced in 1776 by Jacquin, based on Linnaeus's Theobroma augusta, but renaming the species as Abroma fastuosa. The correct combination was subsequently made by Linnaeus fils and Murray. Abroma, being based on the Greek βρομα (broma), is neuter, and while the feminine gender has generally been used for epithets in this genus, they should be corrected to neuter.

Abroma is generally considered a monotypic genus, with the sole species being Abroma augustum. However there are conflicting chromosome number reports (2n = 16, 20, 22, 24) for this species, so the possibility that it represents a species complex remains open.

Abroma angustum (L.) L.f.
Description: Chinese ang tian lian

Synonyms of Abroma augustum include Abroma alata Blanco, Abroma angulata Lam., Abroma angulosa Poir., Abroma communis Blanco, Abroma elongata Lam., Abroma fastuosa Gaertn., Abroma fastuosa Jacq., Abroma fastuosa Vent., Abroma molle DC., Abroma mollis DC., Abroma obliquum C.Presl, Abroma wheleri Retz. and Theobroma augusta L..

Malvaceae Info (Home)
Index to Genera

Synonymy of Abroma

© 2011 Stewart R. Hinsley"

http://www.malvaceae.info/Genera/Abroma/Abroma.php

when I searched for ambroma versus abroma…

  "  end quote



AND WHAT IS ORTHOGRAPHIC VARIANT YOU ASK? as per an article in Taxon


Homonyms, Paranyms and Orthographic Variants

Hj. Eichler
Taxon
Vol. 12, No. 1 (Jan., 1963), pp. 15-20


orthographic variant is a DIFFERENT SPELLING FORM OF A VALIDLY PUBLISHED NAME....
READ IT AT
 http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1216675?uid=3738256&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21101126705337



SINCE IT WAS LINNAEUS"S SON the fils means son... (or a father whichever )  I take it was paerhaps the son... but could also be the father since he was alive during the first description of this plant.
..


SO THIS IS JUST A SPELLING MISTAKE BY THE FATHER_SON DUO....

I AM DEFINITELY DONE WITH THIS >>>>>
THIS IS BEGINNING TO BORE ME>>>>

I"LL DO ONE THING FOR SAKE OF COMPLETION (esp since my first submission keeps coming up on googling) I'll copy paste what I wrote here to that thread and also put a link to this SURJAIT's thread there ...

SAYONARA TO ABROMA....AMBROMA ....

USHA DI

 ps this Surajit thread 's link is https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!search/abroma$20surajit/indiantreepix/JHioQNsI0ws/t34JcxnzPUAJ


THE END
--
Usha di
===========

Ritesh Kumar Choudhary

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Aug 2, 2012, 5:17:25 AM8/2/12
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Thanks Ushadi!

Ritesh. 

ushadi Micromini

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Aug 2, 2012, 11:42:50 AM8/2/12
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Ritesh ... thank me for what?
the info


or putting this issue to rest?

 Seriously though since you are in the business of botany (I am not) tell me if this information I gleaned fromn the net is any good???

usha di

==========

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Ritesh Kumar Choudhary <rites...@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Ushadi!

Ritesh. 



--
Usha di
===========

surajit koley

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Aug 2, 2012, 11:45:47 AM8/2/12
to ushadi Micromini, efloraofindia
Usha Di,

Abroma is very irritating, as can be seen/read in - http://www.plantoftheweek.org/week262.shtml.

Thanks for the "orthographic variant", it may explain Boerhaavia and Boerhavia.

Thanks for 'Broma', 'Abroma', 'Ambroma', 'Theobroma', found some info at - http://wordinfo.info/unit/2421/ip:21

Thanks for 'Linnaeus fils', searched and found - http://www2.nrm.se/fbo/hist/linnefil/linfil.html.en



Regards,

surajit

ushadi Micromini

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Aug 2, 2012, 4:28:58 PM8/2/12
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Thanks, Interesting links
Usha di
===
--
Usha di
===========

Ritesh Kumar Choudhary

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Aug 3, 2012, 1:52:01 AM8/3/12
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Dear Ushadi,

Thanks for exploring a lot on Abroma and Ambroma issue! I learnt a lot from all the links which you and Surajit ji have provided to make things clear.

Regards,
Ritesh.  

surajit koley

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Aug 3, 2012, 3:01:28 PM8/3/12
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Sir,

Found more on Abroma augusta (L.) L.f. at - http://www.prota4u.org/protav8.asp?g=pe&p=Abroma+augusta+(L.)+L.f.


Regards,

surajit
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